patch complaint

Unknown

i dont really care about characters getting buff and nerf.. played enough MMO to understand FOTM.

but why health buff. it really blows when you add more grind to a already very grindy game.

guess its time..

EDIT:
i tried the pvp today. it does brings in alot of mixes. it is better than expected, but will it last until the next XF(my prediction is PX)?

However, my concern about time needed to play this game remain unchanged. is there anyway you could at least fasten the animation. dont get me wrong, they have been great, but that dude with a 5 pink loki almost drives me to seek anger management. seriously, pls find a way to reduce time needed for a match, pace of era 141 was the best.

Heartburn

the devs hate us and enjoy making our lives horrible

wymtime

They are trying o make a lot more characters playable. HT, BWGS, Punisher, Psylock, Storm are all more playable after the health buff. It is a slog, but is an additional way to encourage diversity.

MarvelDestiny

Good points so far. Making more of my roster viable is a good thing but increasing health is probably not the way to go. Players will spend less time playing and avoid some areas, e.g. PVP. I'm certainly not happy about working that much longer to reach the same goals.

Maybe D3 saw the usage numbers and decided to help us wean off our MPQ addiction?

On the positive side some of those characters received buffs to their damage range(s) even as XF was downed by the Furies -- if you don't get that insanely obscure reference, then you need to watch The Warriors. Do it now.

Vhailorx

The health shift is a clear attempt to solve the problem that 6800 and lower 3*s were too squishy with power creep.

But accomplishing that goal by raising the health of most characters, rather than by dropping the health of the outliers was probably a function of the fact that the player community is MUCH more accepting of positive changes than negative ones.

Raising 3*' Storm's health has about the same impact on her viability as lowering the health of the top tanks like lazy thor's. But if you do the latter, people will rage against losing out on the value of all the lazy thor covers they bought (cf Xforce and 4*thor).

The side effect for players is longer matches, but that's a problem for the players more than demiurge.

cletus1985

Vhailorx wrote:

The health shift is a clear attempt to solve the problem that 6800 and lower 3*s were too squishy with power creep.

But accomplishing that goal by raising the health of most characters, rather than by dropping the health of the outliers was probably a function of the fact that the player community is MUCH more accepting of positive changes than negative ones.

Raising 3*' Storm's health has about the same impact on her viability as lowering the health of the top tanks like lazy thor's. But if you do the latter, people will rage against losing out on the value of all the lazy thor covers they bought (cf Xforce and 4*thor).

The side effect for players is longer matches, but that's a problem for the players more than demiurge.

We have way different views on the reason behind the health boosts, but I've never heard your theory for it, so I thank you for the new perspective. The easiest and therefore probably the most widely believed theory is they wanted to nerf certain characters without actually nerfing anyone i.e. Loki, Hood, Lthor, Patch, Ldaken, etc... There were obvious power to hp ratios that didn't add up that needed a buff in hp to become relevant that I would think would have heard almost no complaints i.e. Storm, HT, Pun, IW, etc....., but this just seems to be masking nerfs and making the game a giant grind (did Black Panther seriously need a hp boost?). Either way it seems we both agree the longer matches just effect players, so it's not devs problem.

Eddiemon

noisnam wrote:

i dont really care about characters getting buff and nerf.. played enough MMO to understand FOTM.

but why health buff. it really blows when you add more grind to a already very grindy game.

guess its time..

Well in part people were asking why characters were always nerfed and never buffed. Now there was a mass buff and still the complaints come in.

True healers were a problem. Their effective health in any battle was higher than any other character's and they didn't retain damage. So Laken/Patch/Grocket/XForce were significantly better than everyone else. I know I use a combination of them for most matches because I can play longer.

Buffing everyone else's health now means I am trading off a 'squishy' true healer vs a more durable fixed health character. Each side has its attractions, whereas before it was true healers hands down.

Longer matches also make defense tiles, strike tiles and attack tiles more valuable, and makes single high damage abilities less valuable. Which balances out your options with characters.

simonsez

Eddiemon wrote:

Well in part people were asking why characters were always nerfed and never buffed. Now there was a mass buff and still the complaints come in.

Yes, it's so odd that people would complain that in the span of a few weeks, their two main damage dealers were crippled, and every other character got a health boost. It's as if they don't welcome matches suddenly being 3x longer than they used to be.

Vhailorx

cletus1985 wrote:

We have way different views on the reason behind the health boosts, but I've never heard your theory for it, so I thank you for the new perspective. The easiest and therefore probably the most widely believed theory is they wanted to nerf certain characters without actually nerfing anyone i.e. Loki, Hood, Lthor, Patch, Ldaken, etc... There were obvious power to hp ratios that didn't add up that needed a buff in hp to become relevant that I would think would have heard almost no complaints i.e. Storm, HT, Pun, IW, etc....., but this just seems to be masking nerfs and making the game a giant grind (did Black Panther seriously need a hp boost?). Either way it seems we both agree the longer matches just effect players, so it's not devs problem.

Actually I think we are saying the same thing. the weaker 3*s weren't viable and the devs want to increase useable roster diversity. There was group A (the good, playable characters) and group B (everyone else), with a big gap in between, and the devs wanted to narrow that gap. They chose to do so by making the Group B characters better, rather than nerfing the group A characters (and dealing with the forum uproar, sell-backs, and rage quits that come from nerfing the top characters in any system)

MarvelDestiny

Vhailorx wrote:

The side effect for players is longer matches, but that's a problem for the players more than demiurge.

I agree with just about everything you said but this. The devs had to know that increasing health would result in longer matches both in PVP & PVE. I think it was this they were trying to address with the few damage increases in the buffs.

The problem is longer matches. They become tedious and uber-grindy if you want to stay competitive which in turn leads to boredom, apathy, and aversion. This affects Demiurge because it affects their bottom line. That said, I agree that in the short run this does not affect them; but unchecked, in the long run will probably be hugely detrimental.

Unknown

And here I thought this was going to be about 3* Wolverine being too powerful.

Vhailorx

MarvelDestiny wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

The side effect for players is longer matches, but that's a problem for the players more than demiurge.

I agree with just about everything you said but this. The devs had to know that increasing health would result in longer matches both in PVP & PVE. I think it was this they were trying to address with the few damage increases in the buffs.

The problem is longer matches. They become tedious and uber-grindy if you want to stay competitive which in turn leads to boredom, apathy, and aversion. This affects Demiurge because it affects their bottom line. That said, I agree that in the short run this does not affect them; but unchecked, in the long run will probably be hugely detrimental.

Perhaps its better to say that longer matches don't directly affect demiurge. If the matches become so long that the game is no fun and all the players leave, demiurge would obviously suffer. But its a second- or third-order connection.

Unknown

Eddiemon wrote:

noisnam wrote:

i dont really care about characters getting buff and nerf.. played enough MMO to understand FOTM.

but why health buff. it really blows when you add more grind to a already very grindy game.

guess its time..

Well in part people were asking why characters were always nerfed and never buffed. Now there was a mass buff and still the complaints come in.

True healers were a problem. Their effective health in any battle was higher than any other character's and they didn't retain damage. So Laken/Patch/Grocket/XForce were significantly better than everyone else. I know I use a combination of them for most matches because I can play longer.

Buffing everyone else's health now means I am trading off a 'squishy' true healer vs a more durable fixed health character. Each side has its attractions, whereas before it was true healers hands down.

Longer matches also make defense tiles, strike tiles and attack tiles more valuable, and makes single high damage abilities less valuable. Which balances out your options with characters.

so i need to give them 4 hrs of my life everyday in-order to get something , i only have 24 hours a day. this isnt working for me anymore. i would rather they nerf those characters directly. see, its a nerf to them now anyway but i end up have to spend more time on the game in order to complete. d3 you are just asking for too much, this is not entertainment.

MarvelDestiny

Vhailorx wrote:

Perhaps its better to say that longer matches don't directly affect demiurge. If the matches become so long that the game is no fun and all the players leave, demiurge would obviously suffer. But its a second- or third-order connection.

I think we're pretty much on the same page. Definitely not a burning issue for their profit margin now but the clouds are forming.