Forum Thread

aesthetocyst
aesthetocyst Posts: 538 Critical Contributor
edited May 2018 in MPQ General Discussion
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  • DEWDuck
    DEWDuck Posts: 84 Match Maker
    Great idea and post, but I think the OBW true heal should be in there.
  • Salgy
    Salgy Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    wasn't there also a pre-release nerf on professor x?!?
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Just my 2 cents, but the people who these "nerfs" impacted the most have either rage quit or sold thier accounts cause they are sick and tired of investing money and time into a game that in the end just takes away thier favorite toys! The only people benefiting from these changes are the new players / 2 - 3* transitioners and D3 who are finding more and more ways to sap $$$ out of players who play for top spots.

    Why not "balance" the game by making weaker characters stronger, rather than screwing with a good character? If you want to achieve balance and more diversity in game play do that instead! As soon as i finally get an important character, that I've been working months to build and drop iso into, to rip it out of my hands! It's beyond frustrating, it's downright obnoxious!

    No one complains when you make a **** character better but everyone hates it when you take a notably good character and ruin it! This is the same crash that is going on with major telecom and baking companies, negative billing! Overcharge a client and reimburse the ones that complain. If 50% complain you are still up 50%.... ****! D3 needs to get thier heads out of the sand and fix what they have messed up!
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,762 Chairperson of the Boards
    The three biggest nerfs have been:
    Spiderman the number 1 broken character in the game to completly MIA. He pops up every now and then in survivial mode with falcon, but for the most part he has become a forgotten character.
    Rags: the first of the broken characters. They Merced him so bad he was only used in LR because he was buffed and essential. Now after his rebalancing we want the nerves character back.
    #1 Nerf is Sentry. Sentry was the biggest fastest stone cold killer around. He had 1 purpose and 1 purpose only to shield hop. Now he is a meat Popsicle. He still has good health similar to other characters, but he is slower than molasses and if he fires a power he still destroys your team. He. Ow sits on rosters collecting cobwebs remembering when he used to be good.

    Honorable mention: 2* thorverine combo. And the true healing Nerf to OBW. All three are still playable to this day so the nerfs hurt them, but did not kill them
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Spiderman and Sentry's nerfs are pretty ridiculous because they suck so bad now. They didn't just get hit with the nerf bat, they became comatose!

    Quicksilver wins the "Welcome to the Bag Family" award this year.

    2*Mag was bad. Sad thing is it hurts 2* players most. Not to mention 2*Storm goes even lower and 2*Hawkeye is useless(doubly so since Professor X is out).

    Ragnarok was pretty humiliating - A) They said it was a buff, B) He literally keeps his team from doing useful abilities and kills them as well as provides Green(GREEN!!!! MOST POWERFUL COLOR IN THE GAME) charge tiles to the player. And C) Seeing how Loki and Doom turned out, someone must've been smoking something good when designing Rag.

    4*Thor I think was unnecessary, but at least they nerfed X-Force shortly after. The sad part is 3*Thor is arguably better than her now. That's not how this is supposed to work, D3...

    Hood nerf didnt' really matter because his blueflag.png is the same. Although it was pretty hilarious seeing him changed right before events where he was fed yellow. It was as if D3 was saying 'LOOK HOOD ISNT NERFED SEE????'

    Iron Fist I'm glad we called D3 on. They responded quickly. I still don't know what they were thinking releasing a character that would make X-Force even more X-Forcier.

    PS: Whoever has that "RIP Spiderman" signature kills me every time
  • Inarius
    Inarius Posts: 141 Tile Toppler
    #1 - Sentry: He used to be highest damage dealer in the game, being able to down a whole team with his greenflag.png and yellowflag.png combo, but now he's an empty shell of his former self. They didn't just nerf him, they shot him to death without killing him (ﾉಠдಠ)ﾉ︵┻━┻

    Oh, he can still a lot of dmg with a maxed out redflag.png and yellowflag.png combo, but I can barely use him in a fight before leaving him to heal off...still my fav char but gawd damn, did they smash an entire planet on top of his head, bent him over and performed a cavity search while singing Rick Roll's "Never gonna give you up".

    #2 - Spiderman: His healing was the most awesome thing ever, which is why he was pretty damn good paired up with anymore. Now the only place you basically see him is in the pve nodes and sometimes during some pvp ones. He basically became that ghost story you tell around the campfire.

    #3 - Ragnarok: Despite not dealing huge amount of dmg the guy was best known for his spamming, which is what made him so annoying. So they decided to kill him then decided to try and bring him back to life. His redflag.png is ok'ish but his greenflag.png aside from shattering only one row deals dmg to his allies as well and his blueflag.png is only useful to him and him only. It's a pain having to receive a team-up comprised of his blueflag.png
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    aesthetocyst wrote:
    Inarius wrote:
    #1 - Sentry: He used to be highest damage dealer in the game, being able to down a whole team with his greenflag.png and yellowflag.png combo, but now he's an empty shell of his former self. They didn't just nerf him, they shot him to death without killing him (ﾉಠдಠ)ﾉ︵┻━┻

    Oh, he can still a lot of dmg with a maxed out redflag.png and yellowflag.png combo, but I can barely use him in a fight before leaving him to heal off...still my fav char but gawd damn, did they smash an entire planet on top of his head, bent him over and performed a cavity search while singing Rick Roll's "Never gonna give you up".

    #2 - Spiderman: His healing was the most awesome thing ever, which is why he was pretty damn good paired up with anymore. Now the only place you basically see him is in the pve nodes and sometimes during some pvp ones. He basically became that ghost story you tell around the campfire.

    #3 - Ragnarok: Despite not dealing huge amount of dmg the guy was best known for his spamming, which is what made him so annoying. So they decided to kill him then decided to try and bring him back to life. His redflag.png is ok'ish but his greenflag.png aside from shattering only one row deals dmg to his allies as well and his blueflag.png is only useful to him and him only. It's a pain having to receive a team-up comprised of his blueflag.png

    So you're voting for the second Rags nerf? That one has no votes ... have to be careful, rags is on the list twice, currently!
    Did not realize that was on there twice....
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    In terms of overall power level, the top 2 nerfs of all time are Rags #1, and Spidey, and it's not even close. Ragnarok went from the single most powerful character in the history of the game to unplayable (not "unplayable" like LadyThor, but actually unplayable as in one of the worst 3*s in the game), and Spidey went from a stunlocking monster to the same thing. The fact that Ragnarok only has 6 votes at this point in time compared to Sentry's 14 or X-Force's 10 just makes me realize how old I am (and I wasn't even here back during game launch). icon_e_sad.gif Sentry takes third, but given how much more powerful Ragnarok was compared to Sentry, Ragnarok should be leading the polls right now.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,762 Chairperson of the Boards
    NorthernPolarity wrote:
    In terms of overall power level, the top 2 nerfs of all time are Rags #1, and Spidey, and it's not even close. Ragnarok went from the single most powerful character in the history of the game to unplayable (not "unplayable" like LadyThor, but actually unplayable as in one of the worst 3*s in the game), and Spidey went from a stunlocking monster to the same thing. The fact that Ragnarok only has 6 votes at this point in time compared to Sentry's 14 or X-Force's 10 just makes me realize how old I am (and I wasn't even here back during game launch). icon_e_sad.gif Sentry takes third, but given how much more powerful Ragnarok was compared to Sentry, Ragnarok should be leading the polls right now.
    I voted for Rags, but I would refer you to mischiefmaker's rankings at this time last year. Rags was lower tier, but playable. If you generated 12 red you could get decent damage and green on the board, his green was cheep and in PVE always seemed to get cascades for the AI. The bottom line is you could still play Rags and pair him with a better green user. Sentry on the other hand has been kicked to the curb and no one wants anything to do with him. Rags was at least fast and annoying, while Sentry is slow, and kills his own team.
  • evil panda
    evil panda Posts: 419 Mover and Shaker
    By OP's definition it has to be Sentry and Ragnarok. From #1 to totally unusable in one move. Honorable mention to Spidey.

    The other nerfs are all painful, but those characters can still be used
  • Salgy
    Salgy Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    aesthetocyst wrote:
    Salgy wrote:
    wasn't there also a pre-release nerf on professor x?!?

    There was. Can you provide a link?

    I started a list of the items known but not currently in the poll, see revised OP. Added Prof X pre-release nerf, but don't have details yet.

    I also changed the title to "Top 15". When I started this I wasn't sure how many items there would be. Already well past 15, which is the poll limit icon_lol.gif
    Don't remember seeing a seperate thread, but Here is a link to icex's post in the character discussion thread where he updates the original (pre-released) prof x
  • Ryz-aus
    Ryz-aus Posts: 386
    I wouldn't list it in the poll, but loki's original was also nuts - he was nerfed well before the others, and before I had the covers to use him, sometime in October 2013. Could flood the board with purple.

    Northern polarity is right about the poll - it shows how many people weren't around when rags was an unstoppable monster. He was easily ahead of superstun spidey and you don't get a turn mags.
  • Tarouza
    Tarouza Posts: 101 Tile Toppler
    I found something funny when I read that first sentence in iw link. I think the devs have changed their feelings
  • BillyBobJoe
    BillyBobJoe Posts: 103 Tile Toppler
    It might be an unpopular opinion, but I believe the majority of the nerfs were well deserved and warranted. Classic Spiderman, Classic Magneto, & Iron Fist needed nerfing just for the abuse they took. It not only was spam-city, it was a lopsided fight.

    Rags first nerf was probably warranted because he was the cornerstone of my 2* squad with few covers. However, the nerf made him as powerful as my 2*s. The devs said they wanted Rags more like Thor. I think the buff fell a wee bit short, but it's an improvement at least.

    Did the Hood get a nerf, or a buff? Seems like with the Sentry nerf, Hood got buffed because his black became useless (until Kingpin). Did Falcon get a nerf? I guess I never played him that much. Quicksilver got nerfed before anyone had him, so is it really a nerf?

    Daken had free strike tiles that were fairly strong. I can see why this should/did get nerfed.

    IW needed a reworking desperately, and I feel that her new power structure fits nicely. I think her yellow is a bit overpriced (hello, Prof X goes 'invisible' more cheaply than IW?) but she's now her blue & green are faster and more powerful. I think this one is a winner.

    2* nerfs pass right by me. I didn't notice/mind the 2* Wolvie nerf. I'm scratching my head at the mnMags nerf. Don't know why he warranted it, but I can guess why. More characters are taking advantage of match 5 abilities (Prof X, mHawk), and MnMags could create up to 3 crits if you had a really friendly board. MnMags can still create crits, but probably only one at a time now. I'm surprised that mHawkeye didn't make the nerf list. While his CDs were trash, his blue and red dealt better damage. When his purple got replaced with an awesome ability, his red & blue took a nose dive. So the 'buff' was a wash.

    Which brings me to my 3 most irritating nerfs:

    1) Sentry - By far the most ridiculous nerf in the game. They made a great character and made him unplayable. Sure people were abusing the boosts and sentry bombing on the second turn, but why not just raise the cost for WR? instead, they raise the cost and raise the CD timers. So instead of being one of the fastest abilities in the game, it is now one of the slowest. Combine that with increased damage cost of Sacrifice (almost 2K self damage), Sentry may not be around by the time WR gets going. Supernova got hit too. Damage was decreased to the enemy team, but the damage wasn't lowered for your team. The nerf just went too far with Sentry.

    2) & 3) Tie: Miss Thor & XF - I agree that PowerSurge+Smite (PSS) and Surgical Strike (SS) were just powerhouse abilities. I wouldn't see a problem with that considering they're 4*s. But, like Sentry, I think the nerf just went a little too far. Especially since they're 4*s which people either really had to fight over, or spend big $$ to acquire. Now PSS is an average 3* power, and SS is a slightly stronger Polarizing Force. They're no longer dominating, which will be good for the game, but I worked my @$$ off grinding PVE for my Thora covers over Thanksgiving weekend and now I feel a little cheated. So I'm voting these two just because I feel like I've been baited & switched.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    So I wasn't around for the original Rags nerf, but I've always heard how crazy powerful he was. I didn't have a useful Spidey prior to his nerf, but I saw him in action, and it was ridiculous. Then the true healing b.s. came along and made it even worse. So when it comes to overall nerfs, this top 3 is just in relevance to the time and ability I've had to use these characters:

    1. Sentry: There was nothing more satisfying than bombing a high level team into oblivion, even with Sentry under level 110. Now I cry myself to sleep looking at him at level 122, knowing he's never going to be used, and I didn't sell him for the HP when I had the chance.

    2. XForce: The one I actually bought covers for, and now I feel like I want a refund for twice the amount since he's just another one of those that's there more for show than anything else. Another unfortunate D3 mistake, forgetting that 4* characters are at that level for a reason...and apparently the reason is to put the 4* characters on the same level, if not lower, than the 3*. His green is barely a 3* level power anymore, doing about 2100 damage. Went from decent to terrible to the best to meh. It's called a happy medium, ever heard of it?

    3. Spidey: Despite not being able to use him fully covered at max level, this was still crippling, especially since right after the nerf I picked up 5 Spidey covers in a week. The original perma-stun into overpowered protect tile, with a side of 'you can't kill me' when you fire off a yellow for 3500 healing was a no-question on any team. Well, take away all of the effectiveness, and you get another 'remember when...' character that's more for show than tell.

    It's just a tough thing to watch as someone who's been playing for over a year, but even worse knowing that as soon as there's a character that EVERYONE wants and ends up aiding in creating incredible teams (XFist is the best example), it's inevitable that the walls come crashing down on these guys or gals. How about we try designing a character correct on the first try instead of nerfing and buffing constantly? Just my two cents...
  • Punisher5784
    Punisher5784 Posts: 3,845 Chairperson of the Boards
    viewtopic.php?f=13&t=14849

    That is the link to Classic Magneto's and Daken's nerf. Also included on that day was a buff to 2* Hawkeye and... XFORCE!
  • Ryz-aus
    Ryz-aus Posts: 386
    aesthetocyst wrote:
    Ryz-aus wrote:
    I wouldn't list it in the poll, but loki's original was also nuts - he was nerfed well before the others, and before I had the covers to use him, sometime in October 2013. Could flood the board with purple.

    Northern polarity is right about the poll - it shows how many people weren't around when rags was an unstoppable monster. He was easily ahead of superstun spidey and you don't get a turn mags.

    Why not include this early Loki nerf in the poll? I play on Steam, so it predates me. Have a link?

    I'll try to make some more updates tonight. It's early going, but the voting is as anticipated so far, Sentry, Spidey in the lead, X-Force close. X-Force is what's happening this week, so he'll get votes. 4* THor is recent, she will too. Bias toward recent memory. Also, few players are left from those early days ... few remember the original rags, the original 2* wolverine.

    The loki nerf is so old I couldn't find a writeup of the original - it was something crazy like turning all red/yellow to purple for 8 or 9 AP. Because so few people played loki It's hard to rank it - it did make him mostly useless for over a year I guess.

    There's some complaints about it here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29
  • seth_is_OK
    seth_is_OK Posts: 48
    aesthetocyst wrote:
    Punisher5784 wrote:
    http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=14849

    That is the link to Classic Magneto's and Daken's nerf. Also included on that day was a buff to 2* Hawkeye and... XFORCE!

    Thanks Punisher! Incorporated into updates, see notes in revised OP. However, that's not the change to Cmags that was the nerf. Cmags original had ridiculously cheap powers, similar to the original Rags. I can't recall when he was changed; must have been middle of 2014?

    Punisher5784 linked to the right one. You can see the old powers - blue at 5 AP and red at 2 AP at 5 covers. As long as 2 blue were near each other, it created a loop of instant feedback of 5 blue AP. Red often created cascades that matched red or brought more blue to the screen. Combined with Patch, he often ended games before the other team had the opportunity to use Patch's purple strike tiles. The only reason Magneto does not receive as many votes (mine - Sentry, Spider-Man, Rags) is that he is still a high level character with good powers.
  • Mikaveus
    Mikaveus Posts: 202
    Gotta give #1 to Sentry and #2 to Spider-Man. The nerfs rendered them worthless to many players immediately following their dizzying highs. Spider-Man is now a decent 3rd string support character. And Sentry.... I'm still not sure what he is. Kamikaze for one match?

    I'll give #3 to Marvel Now Mags because we really should've moved past 2* nerfs. I mean, c'mon, it's hard enough to transition and you had to take away the bread 'n butter of 2* players. Didn't seem necessary to this 3* player anyway.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Top 2 to Spiderman and Sentry. Both went from gods to extremely slow, nearly unplayable status.
    Tossed my 3rd vote to 4*Thor, who lost the 4* luster.


    Characters I think don't belong on the list:
    OBW: She's still amazing for a 2*.
    Rags: He was still a killer in PVE, especially with 2 green feeders. If anything, it was his 'rework' that made him more unplayable.
    CMags: Way better on defense, still a decent 3*
    IF: How many people sold their IF after the minor nerf? He was OP to begin with, arguably reasonable after.
    MNMags: He needed the change, but was only allowed to get away with that power for so long because he was hiding in 2* land.

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