Forum Rage

Omega Blacc

MPQ has been the first game I've really gotten this in depth with (as far as frequenting forums and participating).

I've been more of a fighting game aficionado on consoles. I understand nerfs and buffs as part of competitive play.

I recently visited a friend who is heavily into EVE Online. THAT is an intense game. He spent over an hour going on about the nuances of the system, factions, the (basically real) economic system of the game and so forth. I started telling him about MPQ and I mentioned our forum and all the rage that gets exhibited from game changes. It seems that EVE forums are just the same. He showed me examples and Youtube footage. Very entertaining. Gamers get by on one or two mechanics for so long that any most change is met with hostility.

I don't know why it surprised me, but it really did.

What might have surprised me even more is how deep this game is. It's one thing to explain the game, but it's another entirely to explain XF and Thor and why they got nerfed. I ran down True Healing, HP sucks (apparently economists are brought in to design ways to keep people from amassing to much currency on EVE), character synergy and whatnot. This is a match-3 game! When I step back and think about it, I really have to give the Devs some credit. A part of me understands why they have to tinker so much. The game keeps expanding and it can't be easy to keep up.

Doesn't mean I have to like all the changes though.

Check out this group called "Rooks and Kings". If you don't know EVE, they have this horribly brilliant strategy called "Pipebombing". What a jerk tactic. Their videos are also so self-serious that they'll make you laugh.

Oh yeah, while I have you here: I ran into Buffed Thor, Cage, and Kamala Kahn for the first time today...why did I never think of that matchup. Funny that she heals every time Cage drops a shield, but she doesn't trigger on Pheromone Rage... I'm not looking forward to these trios.

Also: 5/3/5 Sentry - 5/4/3 Psylocke - 1/1/1 Devil Dino - 1/1/0 IM40 - 3/2/1 Squirrel Girl - 2/3/4 Mohawk

Who stays? Who goes? Thanks for the advice!

Unknown

Omega Blacc wrote:

Also: 5/3/5 Sentry - 5/4/3 Psylocke - 1/1/1 Devil Dino - 1/1/0 IM40 - 3/2/1 Squirrel Girl - 2/3/4 Mohawk

Who stays? Who goes? Thanks for the advice!

Obviously it depends on who you ask. If it's the community then definitely get rid of Mohawk, if it's the devs, keep Mohawk and sell the rest of your team.

DaveR4470

Dude, you can't get me all revved up for talking about EVE and then ask a practical MPQ roster question! Bait and switch! BAIT AND SWITCH!!!!!

Honestly, the only forum I've been involved with that hasn't been ragey any time anything changes is Kerbal Space Program's.... and that's because KSP is so mod-friendly that if you don't like a change, someone will post a mod that will un-change the change in within hours.

EVE is just.... it's something else. It's just completely unique.

Omega Blacc

DaveR4470 wrote:

Dude, you can't get me all revved up for talking about EVE and then ask a practical MPQ roster question! Bait and switch! BAIT AND SWITCH!!!!!

Honestly, the only forum I've been involved with that hasn't been ragey any time anything changes is Kerbal Space Program's.... and that's because KSP is so mod-friendly that if you don't like a change, someone will post a mod that will un-change the change in within hours.

EVE is just.... it's something else. It's just completely unique.

OK,let's talk EVE then.

I'm fascinated with it, but I'm hesitant to jump in. My buddy has enough resources to fund me and get me started, but I don't know how much time I have to be effective.

He claims to play an average of 1hr per day. I suspect that's a higher number in reality, but I've been known to play MPQ almost all day given the right situation.

How often do you play?

Unknown

Omega Blacc wrote:

Oh yeah, while I have you here: I ran into Buffed Thor, Cage, and Kamala Kahn for the first time today...why did I never think of that matchup. Funny that she heals every time Cage drops a shield, but she doesn't trigger on Pheromone Rage... I'm not looking forward to these trios.

This should not be happening and if it is happening it's a bug. More the heals on black use and rainbow coverage and purple into green make this team good.

Edit: Just tested with Cage/IF/KK and neither cage nor IF passive triggers her heal. Not that Cage/KK/Thor is a bad team, but KK isn't healing on the passive which is good.

Omega Blacc

Lerysh wrote:

Omega Blacc wrote:

Oh yeah, while I have you here: I ran into Buffed Thor, Cage, and Kamala Kahn for the first time today...why did I never think of that matchup. Funny that she heals every time Cage drops a shield, but she doesn't trigger on Pheromone Rage... I'm not looking forward to these trios.

This should not be happening and if it is happening it's a bug. More the heals on black use and rainbow coverage and purple into green make this team good.

Edit: Just tested with Cage/IF/KK and neither cage nor IF passive triggers her heal. Not that Cage/KK/Thor is a bad team, but KK isn't healing on the passive which is good.

I promise you she was healing every time Cage dropped a shield. I retreated that match because my health was too low before I realized what was happening. Match was stupid slow too! Since she's not supposed toheal on the passive, I find that team less impressive LOL.

Anyone else experience this?

Unknown

If that's the case, then that's a bug in how defensive powers are handled and you should report it.

Unfortunately offensive and defensive powers are handled differently in this game (no I don't know why) so interactions that work one way sometimes do not work the other way (see OBW Espionage, for a while stole on defense even if not the high color).

Aidonis

I wrongly assume that most folks here have mmo experience...and from the forum response I see that is just not the case.

In the land of mmo's (where you pay money for "goods" and "services") the meta is an ever changing dynamic, where what's the shiz today will be the worst tomorrow.

Trust that there will be a new Xforce/4Thor soon, and the $300-$600 (some of you people are nutz) you spend on it might not be worth it. This is not the developer's fault. The meta will always ebb and flow, but you can control what you spend on it....so do that. Seriously.

Unknown

DISCLAIMER: Due to this forums' anti profanity policy, please beware. The following links contain profanity. If you are not interested in seeing, reading or otherwise being exposed to this profanity, don't click on the links:

If you’re looking to lose a bit more faith in humanity, check out this article:
http://kotaku.com/death-threats-follow- ... -888324886

The designer of Call of Duty Black Ops II made a small change to the power of two guns in the game and received death threats as well as seemingly endless waves of profanity and cursing.

Makes our little community, by comparison, look pretty damn tame. All we say is the devs are bad at their jobs (true? We can’t rule it out).

Rage is part of the online environment. I believe this picture sums it up best (AGAIN, this picture contains profanity. Do not click on link if profanity offends you):
http://a0.img.mobypicture.com/842d9de50 ... c_view.jpg

Xenoberyll

Aidonis wrote:

I wrongly assume that most folks here have mmo experience...and from the forum response I see that is just not the case.

In the land of mmo's (where you pay money for "goods" and "services") the meta is an ever changing dynamic, where what's the shiz today will be the worst tomorrow.

Trust that there will be a new Xforce/4Thor soon, and the $300-$600 (some of you people are nutz) you spend on it might not be worth it. This is not the developer's fault. The meta will always ebb and flow, but you can control what you spend on it....so do that. Seriously.

I don't remember WoW nerfing that much really. There was new and better items every update but not so many nerfs. Even if my old man's brain is hazing things, i'm sure there wasn't stuff unintentionally OP for months before getting nerfed into oblivion.

GuntherBlobel

onimus wrote:

Rage is part of the online environment. I believe this picture sums it up best (AGAIN, this picture contains profanity. Do not click on link if profanity offends you):
http://a0.img.mobypicture.com/842d9de50 ... c_view.jpg

I've been thinking about stuff like the first link you posted a lot lately. I haven't mentioned it, because frankly, I didn't want to give some people ideas. At the same time, we need to talk about the negativity. There is definately a culture on this forum of insulting the Developers. I think we should remind posters more often that the Devs are people too.

I don't think that hate mail should be part of the job description in online game development. Its become the norm, but it shouldn't be.

Unknown

Xenoberyll wrote:

Aidonis wrote:

I wrongly assume that most folks here have mmo experience...and from the forum response I see that is just not the case.

In the land of mmo's (where you pay money for "goods" and "services") the meta is an ever changing dynamic, where what's the shiz today will be the worst tomorrow.

Trust that there will be a new Xforce/4Thor soon, and the $300-$600 (some of you people are nutz) you spend on it might not be worth it. This is not the developer's fault. The meta will always ebb and flow, but you can control what you spend on it....so do that. Seriously.

I don't remember WoW nerfing that much really. There was new and better items every update but not so many nerfs. Even if my old man's brain is hazing things, i'm sure there wasn't stuff unintentionally OP for months before getting nerfed into oblivion.

WoW also does extensive testing and has a fully operational Beta platform. Developers and players test major changes long before they get fielded. They can see how any changes have ripple effects in an environment similar to their live servers. Blizzard has had some pretty major oversights though. The Real Money auction house in Diablo 3 was a disaster. Although they got a lot of praise when they ended it. For all the anger I read here I still find a lot of insightful posts and find it to be a generally welcoming community. I have seen a lot more trolling in other places.

DaveR4470

Omega Blacc wrote:

OK,let's talk EVE then.

I'm fascinated with it, but I'm hesitant to jump in. My buddy has enough resources to fund me and get me started, but I don't know how much time I have to be effective.

He claims to play an average of 1hr per day. I suspect that's a higher number in reality, but I've been known to play MPQ almost all day given the right situation.

How often do you play?

I don't anymore. I didn't have the time to commit to it to make it as worthwhile an experience as it should be. (Which should not dissuade you, btw -- I was a miner, which is much more time-consuming a profession than if you'd rather go around pew-pewing all the starshipz. If you DO want to be a straight miner, though -- an hour a day probably isn't enough.)

EVE's biggest problem is, and always has been, it's INCREDIBLY huge barriers to entry. New players are still, to this day, largely dumped into a universe with no rules and no "quests" guiding you along after what is (as you come to realize down the road) a cursory tutorial/introduction period. (Which is nonetheless, today, miles better than the intro I went through when I started around 2008 or so.) But once you've gotten up to speed, literally anything is possible, so long as it's possible within the context of the software itself. You can make a living protecting whale-like transport ships for huge corporations from player piracy. You can pilot those whale-like ships. You can be the manufacturer of those ships. You can head a strike force hired by your corporation to blow up the factory manufacturing those ships for your arch-enemies. Etc.

You've got a friend playing who can basically mentor you -- that's HUGE if you want to get into EVE. Being in a good corporation is (as I learned, the hard way) basically essential. (It's like being in a top-100 alliance in MPQ vs. not being in an alliance at all -- you can still play, but you're already behind the curve.) There are also groups like EVE University that help newish players. But you really have to want to be a part of the EVE universe. It's not something you can do casually. I tried, and it's an unsatisfying experience. Not because it isn't fun -- it certainly can be -- but because you can see how much more fun it could be if you committed to it more.

rednailz

Xenoberyll wrote:

Aidonis wrote:

I wrongly assume that most folks here have mmo experience...and from the forum response I see that is just not the case.

In the land of mmo's (where you pay money for "goods" and "services") the meta is an ever changing dynamic, where what's the shiz today will be the worst tomorrow.

Trust that there will be a new Xforce/4Thor soon, and the $300-$600 (some of you people are nutz) you spend on it might not be worth it. This is not the developer's fault. The meta will always ebb and flow, but you can control what you spend on it....so do that. Seriously.

I don't remember WoW nerfing that much really. There was new and better items every update but not so many nerfs. Even if my old man's brain is hazing things, i'm sure there wasn't stuff unintentionally OP for months before getting nerfed into oblivion.

IMO WoW doesn't count as an MMO. It's a fun kids arcade game with a huge online community. WoW helped kil many great MMOs that never got a chance to even finish working out bugs before they fell, and didn't leave enough room for better games to have longer lives.

Megdar

Xenoberyll wrote:

Aidonis wrote:

I wrongly assume that most folks here have mmo experience...and from the forum response I see that is just not the case.

In the land of mmo's (where you pay money for "goods" and "services") the meta is an ever changing dynamic, where what's the shiz today will be the worst tomorrow.

Trust that there will be a new Xforce/4Thor soon, and the $300-$600 (some of you people are nutz) you spend on it might not be worth it. This is not the developer's fault. The meta will always ebb and flow, but you can control what you spend on it....so do that. Seriously.

I don't remember WoW nerfing that much really. There was new and better items every update but not so many nerfs. Even if my old man's brain is hazing things, i'm sure there wasn't stuff unintentionally OP for months before getting nerfed into oblivion.

DK was OP for nearly all the first year it was introduced, whatever it is in PvE or PvP. And they kept nerfing and buffing class making it so some time a Class was going from way too good to abysmal in PvP just because the buff of another class was "countering" another one. Yes patch info are sometime up a month before going out, but it can be depressing to see your class at the bottom of playability for half the life of an Expention...

Unknown

Xenoberyll wrote:

Aidonis wrote:

I wrongly assume that most folks here have mmo experience...and from the forum response I see that is just not the case.

In the land of mmo's (where you pay money for "goods" and "services") the meta is an ever changing dynamic, where what's the shiz today will be the worst tomorrow.

Trust that there will be a new Xforce/4Thor soon, and the $300-$600 (some of you people are nutz) you spend on it might not be worth it. This is not the developer's fault. The meta will always ebb and flow, but you can control what you spend on it....so do that. Seriously.

I don't remember WoW nerfing that much really. There was new and better items every update but not so many nerfs. Even if my old man's brain is hazing things, i'm sure there wasn't stuff unintentionally OP for months before getting nerfed into oblivion.

Druid healing and tree form was so OP in pvp for at least two seasons. Then shaman healing for a couple of seasons. One spec of DKs was out of control, for a while it was arms warriors. Sub rogues spent so much time OP you couldn't survive as a healer unless you were disc priest or had a great peeler. And they all got nerfed. And something else became flavor of the month. Oh, frost mages, OP as hell, then nerfed. Arcane was for a bit (invisible nukes ramping up faster than you could respond) and then nerfed. Hunters just kept getting nerfed in pvp and never had their time to shine (in the three years I played). Shadow priests were huge OP and then completely gutted by nerfs in both pvp (and then they were essential as mana batteries in pve) and then vice versa.

Happened all the time. The nerd-rage on the forums was insane. Which is why I don't worry too much about it. It has to happen in online games. Meta-kings change. They ebb and flow.

Unknown

GuntherBlobel wrote:

I think we should remind posters more often that the Devs are people too.

So are we, players. We're not only stats and cash machines. The devs should not forget that.

You can thumb me down Gunther. You like it.

rednailz

arktos1971 wrote:

GuntherBlobel wrote:

I think we should remind posters more often that the Devs are people too.

I'm held accountable for my work at my job....I don't believe that anyone else should be less accountable at whatever it is they do. A spade is a spade. There's no need to bash people for doing a poor job, but there's nothing wrong with a little honesty.

Unknown

Having belonged to a bunch of other forums over the years, I'd have to say I find this one quite reasoned and relatively tame in comparison.

Aside from the usual random personal tantrums, what I have experienced is what I would usually expect:

A small group of devoted, intelligent players willing to share "tricks of the trade," with other players, including other vets and noobs alike (or veteran noobs like me ), a larger group of people interested in learning more about the nuances of "better play," and finally the overall group looking for a common place to talk all things MPQ, who express opinions on all things relevant (mostly ).

As for the discussions regarding the devs, this is about as tame and common sense-ical as I've seen. Something gets nuked, people get upset. Something doesn't work, people talk about it. Again, common sense stuff really. People are going to have opinions about stuff they pay for, and it's always refreshing to be around developers not afraid of being (respectfully) "smacked around" a bit...

DBC

GuntherBlobel

Hey guys, just to be clear, criticism is not hate mail. Occasionally, there will be a post that blurs the line, but otherwise, it's easy to tell the difference.

In my profession, I live for criticism. I know the Devs want it too.

Unknown

Critism of a company or product is 100% valid. Threats / hate mail at a personal level is completely dispicable. I strongly disagree with the changes d3 is making but would never at any point agree with anyone making threats against d3. If you feel making personal threats against an individual at any company because of a disagreement on policy is the right way to go, you sir are a d****. If you want to express displeasure with a company's practices do it the right way, express yourself intelligently ,often publicly and explain how it will affect their bottom line.