Are the PvP rewards out of touch with reality?

Cymmina

I'm on day 388 and the backbone of my roster is a mix of 2 and 3 star characters at level 94 (Thor**, OBW, Daken**, Luke Cage, GSBW, Loki). I have the covers to get some of my 3* higher than that, but doing so would make it difficult to keep a good synergy with my 2* so I don't (my max potential level is 153 on GSBW). Most of my roster (28 out of 39) is filled with 3* characters with 5 covers or less (eg. useless). The highest score I ever reached in PvP was just over 500, and that was back when it was the HP progression reward and I was making the transition to 2*.

Blind Justice (Season XIII) rewards were handed out a few minutes ago and I already threw away the OBW cover I didn't need. I placed 127 out of 331 with a score of 303 (joined 2 hours before the end). Of the 9 other players I can see around me (#122-131), only 3 of them have similar caliber rosters; two of them ranked above me and 1 below. I don't think I was ranked unfairly: people with better rosters *should* place better than me.

The reward for Blind Justice was a highly desirable brand new 3* character (Kamala) so everyone and their mom was clamoring for it. That doesn't explain more recent events like Teenage Riot (Hulk) or Smash Hit (Daredevil) where more established players likely have those characters max covered. I just barely reached top 100 on Smash Hit, ended up below that on Teenage Riot.

However, many of the players with better rosters that end up in the top 200 have multiple max 3* characters. If these guys couldn't even manage to get into the top 100 for a 3* cover, how can players like myself who are still in 2* land hope to get there?

And then there's the progression rewards. Moving the 2* reward down to 200 points is a fantastic change and should have been done ages ago. However, the 3* reward is sitting at 800 points. What kind of player is consistently hitting the 800 mark? Unless it is a new character, how often does that player throw it away because they don't need it?

SnowcaTT

Our folks that can pretty easily hit 1K are having a heck of a time doing it now, above 900 unshielded you can't run two attacks anymore, you'll be lucky to get in one before you get six counters.

I don't know how I'll hit 7500 on the season, for the first time since S1 I'll likely miss it. I've been averaging 700 in PVP's, 600 is pretty difficult to maintain for me now.

Azoic

Yup, the 3* needs moved to 500, the 4 to 700. Increase iso gains since so much skipping is required now. And season progression entirely revamped. I dont think many will hit the 10-pack, but maybe that was D3s goal

GrumpySmurf1002

I think if scores continue as they have, they'll have to either adjust the MMR again, or lower the progression.

halirin

Cymmina wrote:

I have the covers to get some of my 3* higher than that, but doing so would make it difficult to keep a good synergy with my 2* so I don't (my max potential level is 153 on GSBW).

You have to level your characters beyond 2* range to place better in PvP events.

As for players with better rosters not getting great placement: presumably some people try really hard and get good scores, but some people (even those with good rosters) just phone it in from event to event. Get the easy token progression and call it good.

donietsche

There's no doubt in my mind that the 4 star reward should come down 100 pts (maybe even 200), under the new mmr (with the old one, everything worked just fine).

Assuming that they still believe the 3 to 4 transition thing to be the end game, for the time being, for 3 star players.

On paper it could seem reasonable to ask a player to spend 600-800 hp (at least) to reach the 4 star cover: a nice discount if one thinks about the price of the cover itself, innit?

The fact is that the cost fro roster slots should be taken into account as well... the economy for f2p players would be totally broken, with a couple of consecutive climbs (yeah... two covers for two different characters, what a massive improvement to your roster! You will complete the AMAZING elektra, and the ASTONISHING Starlord by 2020!).

Lot of f2p players - just like me - would be ok about spending a "una tantum" fee to (let say) buy some "permanent asset" (for example, the ability to have limitless roster slots)... even if the price of such an investment is significant.

Spending money just because they are shifting the in-game economy to a model where, sooner or later, you have to pay some dime just to keep going (because it turns out there is/there will be no way to achieve the different goals - transitioning to 4, updating your roster, etc. - with the resources you can reasonably win, even if you're a top performer) totally sucks the fun out of the game for folks who love the "managerial" part of the game.

xellessanova

Yes, agreed 100% OP. I used to hit 1000 regularly, and now I haven't gotten to 900 once this season. 850-870 seems to be my limit.

Alliance mates are struggling for 600 when they used to turn in 750-800 points per pvp, other alliances report their transitioned rosters having trouble past 400 -- so it seems that almost everyone is tracking at 150-200 fewer points in pvp than last season.

I know there was just a reduction but it's a serious struggle to hit the 3* cover at 800 with very careful shield hops and more shielding earlier.

gmp72

What about the ridiculous progression rewards in the shield simulator.
The only people who probably reach the last 2 3 *** rewards are guys who have maxed 4 **** rosters.
What's the point of that ?

Devs : shouldn't the last few difficult rewards be 4* and the 3* rewards be brought lower down the ranking ??

OnesOwnGrief

gmp72 wrote:

What about the ridiculous progression rewards in the shield simulator.
The only people who probably reach the last 2 3 *** rewards are guys who have maxed 4 **** rosters.
What's the point of that ?

Devs : shouldn't the last few difficult rewards be 4* and the 3* rewards be brought lower down the ranking ??

I've reached 2400 once. Just once. Wasn't difficult but it came with going until the very last few hours of the season to reach that. Also have to climb sooner in Simulator unlike so many people do.

babinro

xellessanova wrote:

so it seems that almost everyone is tracking at 150-200 fewer points in pvp than last season.

My experiences match this statement. Blind Justice left me trading hits back and fourth over and over again to the point where I had to shield at 739 points. In the past I could fairly regularly break 1000 points and often 1100 when really going for a reward I wanted.

Now my scores have dropped considerably.
1000 prog feels genuinely out of reach without a lucky bracket (I haven't successfully reached it yet). The 800 prog reward is certainly doable but as Blind Justice proves it's not a given.

Note: I'm an established 4* player (4x 270's) with over 20 level maxed 3*'s for what that's worth. Also my results with the updated MMR have yet to be influenced by any outside communication from alliances.

GrumpySmurf1002

babinro wrote:

xellessanova wrote:

so it seems that almost everyone is tracking at 150-200 fewer points in pvp than last season.

My experiences match this statement. Blind Justice left me trading hits back and fourth over and over again to the point where I had to shield at 739 points. In the past I could fairly regularly break 1000 points and often 1100 when really going for a reward I wanted.

Now my scores have dropped considerably.
1000 prog feels genuinely out of reach without a lucky bracket (I haven't successfully reached it yet). The 800 prog reward is certainly doable but as Blind Justice proves it's not a given.

Note: I'm an established 4* player (4x 270's) with over 20 level maxed 3*'s for what that's worth. Also my results with the updated MMR have yet to be influenced by any outside communication from alliances.

Ditto. As an alliance we're down about 3000 points per event compared to last seasons average. Heck, we're down 2000 from Heavy Metal, so the last set of changes made things even worse.

Arondite

I've still been managing my usual scores (anywhere from 650 to 850) because I'm somewhat used to punching above my weight class to get the scores I want in an event. Problem is, I'm having to slam relentlessly into those XThor teams much earlier now, which is pretty difficult for an account that's freshly (but comfortably) into the 3 Star land.

My sole ability to climb is pretty much hinged on tricking people who have more points than me into retaliating against me so I essentially get double points from them. When I see a ~250 or less XHor team that's worth 40+, I'll go in with Loaner / Deadpool / Black Widow (Original) and boost Purple, hunt purple as hard as I can and Super Whale them. They'll retaliate for "free" points (costing me a mere 5-10), then I'll hit them with my real team for another 40. It works pretty reliably, especially if I'm able to catch/snipe them while they're online and are upset about the retal node.

Skorche

I think the score on the progress has a lot to do with the fact that the simulator almost seems like a waste of time. between the pvp and pve event my top tier heroes aren't healthy enough to do a simulator battle at my level. I hate the fact that I can now only play pvp with my top lvl heroes without fear that my defensive team will be weak.

gmp72

Am I correct in assuming that one can only accumulate 1 super whale every 10 days or so ?

Arondite

gmp72 wrote:

Am I correct in assuming that one can only accumulate 1 super whale every 10 days or do ?

Give or take, yes.

snlf25

Does it really need to change? I don't know. Who cares about 4* covers anymore? For what they cost in iso does anybody believe they are worth having when every single one of them gets nerfed to Beast level usefullness? And since we know scaling is based on your best characters now doesn't it make all the sense in the world to sell the ones you have to nerf yourself back into a mmr where at least PvE is slightly playable again? Is having an Ex-Force worth the extra difficulty you will see in every aspect in the game? Is it better just to get full real money refunds and risk sandboxing because you've been betrayed? Who has any answers?

Mawtful

My average score this season has only increased; I've been placing higher and winning more 4* covers than before.

In Heavy Metal and Blind Justice I ended up placing #1, since I was after a full set of extra Kamala covers. Both events I scored more than 1000 points to take the top spot, so I picked up two 4* covers as well.

In Teenage Riot, I was only after the Kamala progression cover. I ended up going for the final event token and shielded at ~900 points. In Smash Hit, I didn't need the Daredevil covers - went to ~300 points early in the event for the first token, then made a late push. Still ended up just over 800 points. Took top 25 in both those events with very little effort.

I'll definitely be interested to see how things balance out over the rest of the season. Those first place finishes both cost me an additional 8 hour shield than I would normally spend. So I think my point average will probably sit around 900. For both Heavy Metal and Blind Justice, I know I benefited from having the featured character at max level. Perhaps I should extoll the virtues of a diverse roster? I don't need Thor covers from the Kingpin PvP, so either I push to 1000 points or just take it easy. The next PvP is likely to be Thor, I would expect to hit 800-900 points without too much trouble since I have him maxed as well.

In any case, I think the progression rewards are probably pretty close to just where they need to be. I've got one 4* character at max and about 12 3* characters at max, I'm averaging 800-900 points but if I want that last progression reward I'll need to buy an additional shield for one extra push. Seems fair to me.

GothicKratos

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

I think if scores continue as they have, they'll have to either adjust the MMR again, or lower the progression.

They did say in the thread talking about the MMR change that they would change Progression Rewards if need arose. I have every reason to believe they will do a fine job making those adjustments, since they've done so at least twice in the recent past.

Pylgrim

GothicKratos wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

I think if scores continue as they have, they'll have to either adjust the MMR again, or lower the progression.

They did say in the thread talking about the MMR change that they would change Progression Rewards if need arose. I have every reason to believe they will do a fine job making those adjustments, since they've done so at least twice in the recent past.

This. Seems to me that 3* at 750, 4* at 900 is now the reasonable thing.

SnowcaTT

Pylgrim wrote:

GothicKratos wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

I think if scores continue as they have, they'll have to either adjust the MMR again, or lower the progression.

They did say in the thread talking about the MMR change that they would change Progression Rewards if need arose. I have every reason to believe they will do a fine job making those adjustments, since they've done so at least twice in the recent past.

This. Seems to me that 3* at 750, 4* at 900 is now the reasonable thing.

Hopefully the adjust season rewards this time as well, they didn't do that last time.

bknfoodie

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

I think if scores continue as they have, they'll have to either adjust the MMR again, or lower the progression.

Why not both?