If you want a fair PVP fight don't take my health

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anamosity
anamosity Posts: 87
edited April 2015 in MPQ General Discussion
The real problem I'm finding with the pvp adjustments is that I don't have the health pool for a fair fight.

I shot myself in the foot a little by bringing up Hulk and Thor to 166 so that I could get into the top 100 in the old system. The new system now thinks I have a stable of super players ready to go. Fine, I'll play with just hulk/thor/featured every time, since that's the only option. But that means I can only play 2-3 fair fights before I'm out of health packs and waiting for hours for them to generate or hours more for my dead characters to come back to usable status. (this of course if I'm not already using health packs to survive PVE scaling)

The problem with your "fair" fights is that they aren't fair. I'm going in hurt. The opposition is always fresh, with a team-up ready to go. I don't mind health pack management as a strategy in PVE. Though even that limits fun. I would have liked to try to play the Mags/Hood node last PVE, but too much was at stake if I lost my team.

Give me back my health after a PVP match and I can actually play and get past 300 points.

Give me my health back after a PVP fight and I don't care about loosing points to someone as I can actually try to retaliate since my team isn't dead.

Give me my health back after a PVP fight and I can try harder fights and challenge myself without the fear of falling too far behind.


(side note 1, the system isn't even working as intended. They've hidden the 2* teams so well they can't even find each other. The 2* gang in my alliance is seeing crazy 3* teams right off of the seeds.

side note 2, I can't be the only one feeling this since with 6 hours to go in my hulk PVP I'm in 109th place with a whopping 259 points)

Comments

  • +1

    This is the biggest issue I have with this game - health. As stated above, pairing us up against even level opponents is fine, but most times we are going in down health. The reason I like the lvl 94 matches is because I can actually play 8 or 10 matches before my helath packs are gone, where if I draw 166's up front, I may get 3 or 4 matches before health packs are gone.

    I would even be willing to pay a subscription fee ($10 a month) to get my health restored after every match (PvE or PvP) - then I could play as long as I wanted. I wouldn't be afraid to try overmatched teams because I could at least try them again.

    This is the main problem I have with the game....
  • CNash
    CNash Posts: 952 Critical Contributor
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    Do we even need the health pack timer feature in the game as it is right now? Almost everything else in the game is monetized, after all. It feels like the health pack timer system was added only because every other F2P game (at the time) had a playtime restriction of some kind.
  • Managing your roster and your health is part of the game, both PVE and PVP. We already have several major match advantages - we get to add boosts, choose TUs that always make sense, and we're playing against a really stupid AI: take away the health management aspect and where's the challenge?
  • KrazyKeylime
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    shade_tree wrote:
    Managing your roster and your health is part of the game, both PVE and PVP. We already have several major match advantages - we get to add boosts, choose TUs that always make sense, and we're playing against a really stupid AI: take away the health management aspect and where's the challenge?
    enemies get free health, enemies are not limited to 270 character limit that we have, ap boost nullified with a single cascade and AP boosts were nerfed, we can miss a match 4 if we are not paying too close of attention to the game, so the only thing we have is better playing of some abilities, T and L 5 matches when they come up and are not match for a 4 match by the computer and TU choice which is not that great, auto-abilities don't trigger on our first turn but on theirs it does. really stacked in out favor when we have 1/2 health and they are full.
  • shade_tree wrote:
    Managing your roster and your health is part of the game, both PVE and PVP. We already have several major match advantages - we get to add boosts, choose TUs that always make sense, and we're playing against a really stupid AI: take away the health management aspect and where's the challenge?

    I agree with this, but there is a nuance - basically I depend on Daken tanking everything now because matches are so crazy. You shouldn't have to have a true-healer(or completely tricked out roster) to compete in PVP.
  • shade_tree wrote:
    Managing your roster and your health is part of the game, both PVE and PVP. We already have several major match advantages - we get to add boosts, choose TUs that always make sense, and we're playing against a really stupid AI: take away the health management aspect and where's the challenge?

    This WAS true many months ago - true healing removed a large part of that strategy - now the CPU hits so many cascades that you can play the safest match denying all the main colors the CPU needs and still get hammered on the first cascade that gives him all the colors he needs to hit you with three abilities on the next turn. It is damn near impossible to get out of a match now with no damage, especially when facing equal level opponents. If you have more than a half dozen 166's, you then do have some flexibility in roster management - I have 166 LThor, BP, GSBW and Pun - four matches into PVP, they are all hurting and need health packs.

    I wish the game still existed the way you described it...
  • RWTDBurn
    RWTDBurn Posts: 291
    edited April 2015
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    I would think the new MMR system is going to absolutely rip up the 2* - 3* transitional players such as yourself that have 1 or 2 maxed 3*s. Before you had some 2* - 3* mixed teams that you could make some ground on, now you are getting thrown in with all the maxed 3* teams that are licking their chops when they see your team. I think your group has it the worst. You finally work yourself out of being the smallest fish in a big lake and get to do some feeding on small fish yourself only to get moved into a much smaller stock tank where you are once again the smallest fish. So congrats on all your time and hard work paying off, enjoy your reward! icon_lol.gif

    If this MMR is here to stay (I keep telling myself it's all a nightmare and it will go away soon), you might want to at least try and level Lazy Daken, Patch, or Blade. The 2 3* characters you have maxed are among the slowest healers in the game. Daken, Patch, and Blade all heal extremely fast and/or have true healing so you can stay in the battle longer and get back into it sooner.
  • RWTDBurn wrote:
    I would think the new MMR system is going to absolutely rip up the 2* - 3* transitional players such as yourself that have 1 or 2 maxed 3*s. Before you had some 2* - 3* mixed teams that you could make some ground on, now you are getting thrown in with all the maxed 3* teams that are licking their chops when they see your team. I think your group has it the worst. You finally work yourself out of being the smallest fish in a big lake and get to do some feeding on small fish yourself only to get moved into a smaller tank where you are once again the smallest fish. So congrats on all your time and hard work paying off! icon_lol.gif

    If this MMR is here to stay (I keep telling myself it's all a nightmare and it will go away soon), you might want to at least try and level Lazy Daken, Patch, or Blade. The 2 3* characters you have maxed are among the slowest healers in the game. Daken, Patch, and Blade all heal extremely fast and/or have true healing so you can stay in the battle longer and get back into it sooner.

    luke cage/groot/kamala/patch/daken/blade will all go very far in terms of sustainability(hope I didn't miss any)
  • RWTDBurn
    RWTDBurn Posts: 291
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    raisinbman wrote:
    RWTDBurn wrote:
    I would think the new MMR system is going to absolutely rip up the 2* - 3* transitional players such as yourself that have 1 or 2 maxed 3*s. Before you had some 2* - 3* mixed teams that you could make some ground on, now you are getting thrown in with all the maxed 3* teams that are licking their chops when they see your team. I think your group has it the worst. You finally work yourself out of being the smallest fish in a big lake and get to do some feeding on small fish yourself only to get moved into a smaller tank where you are once again the smallest fish. So congrats on all your time and hard work paying off! icon_lol.gif

    If this MMR is here to stay (I keep telling myself it's all a nightmare and it will go away soon), you might want to at least try and level Lazy Daken, Patch, or Blade. The 2 3* characters you have maxed are among the slowest healers in the game. Daken, Patch, and Blade all heal extremely fast and/or have true healing so you can stay in the battle longer and get back into it sooner.

    luke cage/groot/kamala/patch/daken/blade will all go very far in terms of sustainability(hope I didn't miss any)

    I'm assuming that since he only has a few maxed 3*s at this time he's not likely to have enough covers to make leveling the recently released characters worth his time and effort yet. Those are all very good options though if he does have the covers. Cage would be a tremendous help for him.
  • RWTDBurn wrote:
    If this MMR is here to stay (I keep telling myself it's all a nightmare and it will go away soon), you might want to at least try and level Lazy Daken, Patch, or Blade. The 2 3* characters you have maxed are among the slowest healers in the game. Daken, Patch, and Blade all heal extremely fast and/or have true healing so you can stay in the battle longer and get back into it sooner.

    I have done some work on LDaken and Patch because they do truly heal (sold a 130 Sentry and 94 Wolvie for ISO to help level them).

    Here is what I have next:

    5/3/5 Doom at 120
    5/4/0 CMags at 115 (475 straight days and still can't get the third cover - before they changed him I used him with CStorm - awesome blue generation into Wind Storm icon_e_smile.gif )
    3/5/4 Spidey at 110
    5/1/5 Patch at 110
    3/2/3 Daken at 100
    3/5/4 LazyCap at 100
    5/5/3 Hood at 100
    5/3/1 Hulk at 95
    5/3/5 Torch at 70

    many choices but still missing a couple of covers - ISO not exactly easy to come by but working very slowly with the DPD every day...
  • grunth13
    grunth13 Posts: 608 Critical Contributor
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    raisinbman wrote:
    RWTDBurn wrote:
    I would think the new MMR system is going to absolutely rip up the 2* - 3* transitional players such as yourself that have 1 or 2 maxed 3*s. Before you had some 2* - 3* mixed teams that you could make some ground on, now you are getting thrown in with all the maxed 3* teams that are licking their chops when they see your team. I think your group has it the worst. You finally work yourself out of being the smallest fish in a big lake and get to do some feeding on small fish yourself only to get moved into a smaller tank where you are once again the smallest fish. So congrats on all your time and hard work paying off! icon_lol.gif

    If this MMR is here to stay (I keep telling myself it's all a nightmare and it will go away soon), you might want to at least try and level Lazy Daken, Patch, or Blade. The 2 3* characters you have maxed are among the slowest healers in the game. Daken, Patch, and Blade all heal extremely fast and/or have true healing so you can stay in the battle longer and get back into it sooner.

    luke cage/groot/kamala/patch/daken/blade will all go very far in terms of sustainability(hope I didn't miss any)


    I don't understand why ppl think Kamala is a great player/character. She is not a true healer and by the time you get enough ap to start throwing abilities, the AI may have gotten a few good hits on you with cascades and its own abilities which will make her hurt quick. Blade makes the game faster for us, but only if the board is full of red, otherwise he is no better than BP or hulk etc because he will take some significant damage also.
  • grunth13 wrote:
    raisinbman wrote:
    RWTDBurn wrote:
    I would think the new MMR system is going to absolutely rip up the 2* - 3* transitional players such as yourself that have 1 or 2 maxed 3*s. Before you had some 2* - 3* mixed teams that you could make some ground on, now you are getting thrown in with all the maxed 3* teams that are licking their chops when they see your team. I think your group has it the worst. You finally work yourself out of being the smallest fish in a big lake and get to do some feeding on small fish yourself only to get moved into a smaller tank where you are once again the smallest fish. So congrats on all your time and hard work paying off! icon_lol.gif

    If this MMR is here to stay (I keep telling myself it's all a nightmare and it will go away soon), you might want to at least try and level Lazy Daken, Patch, or Blade. The 2 3* characters you have maxed are among the slowest healers in the game. Daken, Patch, and Blade all heal extremely fast and/or have true healing so you can stay in the battle longer and get back into it sooner.

    luke cage/groot/kamala/patch/daken/blade will all go very far in terms of sustainability(hope I didn't miss any)


    I don't understand why ppl think Kamala is a great player/character. She is not a true healer and by the time you get enough ap to start throwing abilities, the AI may have gotten a few good hits on you with cascades and its own abilities which will make her hurt quick. Blade makes the game faster for us, but only if the board is full of red, otherwise he is no better than BP or hulk etc because he will take some significant damage also.

    She's good for the same reason OBW's blueflag.png is good. If you don't like it, that's on you, but the verdict is out on Kamala and she's nowhere near bag-man. Kamala, once properly leveled heals quite a bit(and for free). The devs weren't gonna let us get true healing for a whole team, anyway. I can only imagine how well true-healers + Kamala or even Luke Cage + Kamala team will work! Her thread: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=26067

    Blade can hide behind Daken negating much of the damage he takes. That's how I use 'em.
  • RWTDBurn
    RWTDBurn Posts: 291
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    CybrGamr wrote:
    RWTDBurn wrote:
    If this MMR is here to stay (I keep telling myself it's all a nightmare and it will go away soon), you might want to at least try and level Lazy Daken, Patch, or Blade. The 2 3* characters you have maxed are among the slowest healers in the game. Daken, Patch, and Blade all heal extremely fast and/or have true healing so you can stay in the battle longer and get back into it sooner.

    I have done some work on LDaken and Patch because they do truly heal (sold a 130 Sentry and 94 Wolvie for ISO to help level them).

    Here is what I have next:

    5/3/5 Doom at 120
    5/4/0 CMags at 115 (475 straight days and still can't get the third cover - before they changed him I used him with CStorm - awesome blue generation into Wind Storm icon_e_smile.gif )
    3/5/4 Spidey at 110
    5/1/5 Patch at 110
    3/2/3 Daken at 100
    3/5/4 LazyCap at 100
    5/5/3 Hood at 100
    5/3/1 Hulk at 95
    5/3/5 Torch at 70

    many choices but still missing a couple of covers - ISO not exactly easy to come by but working very slowly with the DPD every day...

    Do you have any 3*s maxed and if so, which ones? If you don't have any maxed out yet, then I would recommend you focus on LazyCap as you are 1 cover away from being able to max him (with the best build for him as well) and he does a solid amount of damage once he gets rolling. He's a very good 3* to start off with. Even after you get a bunch of 3*s maxed L Cap can still be very usefull in PvE so he will be around for the long haul. Doom would be my second priority after that followed by Patch (hopefully you could pick up another cover or two by then) and then Hood to support them.

    If you have a few of the top tier 3* maxed such as Thor, then I'd make Hood my first priority.
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,486 Chairperson of the Boards
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    All previous puzzle quests (admittedly not "freemium", but they were cheap [$20] day one) were like that, I really wish team was at full health after every battle.

    D3, want to know how I have fun playing? When I can -actually- play. You want to know why I'm on your forums complaining about things? Because I am out of health packs and -can't- play! icon_rolleyes.gif
  • RWTDBurn wrote:
    Do you have any 3*s maxed and if so, which ones? If you don't have any maxed out yet, then I would recommend you focus on LazyCap as you are 1 cover away from being able to max him (with the best build for him as well) and he does a solid amount of damage once he gets rolling. He's a very good 3* to start off with. Even after you get a bunch of 3*s maxed L Cap can still be very usefull in PvE so he will be around for the long haul. Doom would be my second priority after that followed by Patch (hopefully you could pick up another cover or two by then) and then Hood to support them.

    If you have a few of the top tier 3* maxed such as Thor, then I'd make Hood my first priority.

    Updated list:

    3/5/5 LThor at 166
    5/3/5 BP at 166
    5/3/5 GSBW at 166
    5/3/5 Pun at 166
    5/3/5 Doom at 120
    5/4/0 CMags at 115 (475 straight days and still can't get the third cover - before they changed him I used him with CStorm - awesome blue generation into Wind Storm icon_e_smile.gif )
    3/5/4 Spidey at 110
    5/1/5 Patch at 110
    3/2/3 Daken at 100
    3/5/4 LazyCap at 100
    5/5/3 Hood at 100
    5/3/1 Hulk at 95
    5/3/5 Torch at 70
  • CybrGamr wrote:
    shade_tree wrote:
    Managing your roster and your health is part of the game, both PVE and PVP. We already have several major match advantages - we get to add boosts, choose TUs that always make sense, and we're playing against a really stupid AI: take away the health management aspect and where's the challenge?

    This WAS true many months ago - true healing removed a large part of that strategy - now the CPU hits so many cascades that you can play the safest match denying all the main colors the CPU needs and still get hammered on the first cascade that gives him all the colors he needs to hit you with three abilities on the next turn. It is damn near impossible to get out of a match now with no damage, especially when facing equal level opponents. If you have more than a half dozen 166's, you then do have some flexibility in roster management - I have 166 LThor, BP, GSBW and Pun - four matches into PVP, they are all hurting and need health packs.

    I wish the game still existed the way you described it...
    I guess my experience is different from yours - I find the AI laughably predictable and easy to beat and look for ways to make matches more challenging; did the DDQ final node this morning with Bagman/MBW/She-Hulk just for kicks. If they were to dumb it down even more by taking away the one advantage that the AI has, starting each match at full strength, then it would just be Superhero Candy Crush.
  • shade_tree wrote:
    CybrGamr wrote:
    shade_tree wrote:
    Managing your roster and your health is part of the game, both PVE and PVP. We already have several major match advantages - we get to add boosts, choose TUs that always make sense, and we're playing against a really stupid AI: take away the health management aspect and where's the challenge?

    This WAS true many months ago - true healing removed a large part of that strategy - now the CPU hits so many cascades that you can play the safest match denying all the main colors the CPU needs and still get hammered on the first cascade that gives him all the colors he needs to hit you with three abilities on the next turn. It is damn near impossible to get out of a match now with no damage, especially when facing equal level opponents. If you have more than a half dozen 166's, you then do have some flexibility in roster management - I have 166 LThor, BP, GSBW and Pun - four matches into PVP, they are all hurting and need health packs.

    I wish the game still existed the way you described it...
    I guess my experience is different from yours - I find the AI laughably predictable and easy to beat and look for ways to make matches more challenging; did the DDQ final node this morning with Bagman/MBW/She-Hulk just for kicks. If they were to dumb it down even more by taking away the one advantage that the AI has, starting each match at full strength, then it would just be Superhero Candy Crush.

    Uh.....Yeah.

    I'm gonna say you're an anomaly. Most players don't have this experience.
  • The AI is ridiculously easy and predictable. That doesn't mean that the occasional cascade madness isn't frustrating.
  • raisinbman wrote:
    Uh.....Yeah.

    I'm gonna say you're an anomaly. Most players don't have this experience.
    Funny - I figured that most people were like me and the people constantly whinging about AI "cheating" and how they never get cascades were the anomaly. icon_e_wink.gif
  • RWTDBurn
    RWTDBurn Posts: 291
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    CybrGamr wrote:
    RWTDBurn wrote:
    Do you have any 3*s maxed and if so, which ones? If you don't have any maxed out yet, then I would recommend you focus on LazyCap as you are 1 cover away from being able to max him (with the best build for him as well) and he does a solid amount of damage once he gets rolling. He's a very good 3* to start off with. Even after you get a bunch of 3*s maxed L Cap can still be very usefull in PvE so he will be around for the long haul. Doom would be my second priority after that followed by Patch (hopefully you could pick up another cover or two by then) and then Hood to support them.

    If you have a few of the top tier 3* maxed such as Thor, then I'd make Hood my first priority.

    Updated list:

    3/5/5 LThor at 166
    5/3/5 BP at 166
    5/3/5 GSBW at 166
    5/3/5 Pun at 166
    5/3/5 Doom at 120
    5/4/0 CMags at 115 (475 straight days and still can't get the third cover - before they changed him I used him with CStorm - awesome blue generation into Wind Storm icon_e_smile.gif )
    3/5/4 Spidey at 110
    5/1/5 Patch at 110
    3/2/3 Daken at 100
    3/5/4 LazyCap at 100
    5/5/3 Hood at 100
    5/3/1 Hulk at 95
    5/3/5 Torch at 70

    You have some good maxed 3*s, I'd start maxing Hood as he's one of the best support characters in the game.