New Hitpoint levels, do we have answers yet?

Phaserhawk

After just leveling up my Iron Fist I started to ponder again about why he and Cyclops have 7500 hitpoints, when characters like Wolverine, Blade, Daken, Beast, Deadpool, Punisher, Black Widow, Psylocke, Spiderman, Daredevil do not. Some 6800 health I get, C.Mags, Squirrel Girl, etc are not your fighting types.

I can see arguement about Wolvie and Daken having health regen as a reason to keep them lower and I can live with that, but there is no way that Blade, Beast, Deadpool etc. should not be in that same health tier, especially when IF and Cy do more damage in addition to having higher health, can someone please provide me an answer? If one has already been given I would love to hear it, but this is going to be my Q&A the next time around.

jojeda654

Did you miss the post from Miles? viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24256&start=120#p303328

Phaserhawk

jojeda654 wrote:

Did you miss the post from Miles? viewtopic.php?f=14&t=24256&start=120#p303328

That does answer the Patch/Daken scenario, but it doesn't cover Spiderman, Deadpool, Punisher, Daredevil, Pyslocke, all of whom are on similar standing as a figher as Iron Fist. I mean Spiderman and Deadpool are generally the only 2 guys who can beat Task Master (the greatest fighter) on a regular basis and they are quite easy to take down in the game, not to mention Daredevil and Blackwidow are up there as well, so while the "how hard they are to take down" does make sense, it doesn't for all the characters, I think there needs to be some retroactive health boosts to some older characters if hit points (which they always have) are becoming a thing the devs have realized have value (see 4hor nerf).

Unknown

I guess you could make the argument with Spiderman that his shields and his heals account for his abilities being more "active" and his HP being lower because he has those abilities that are given in game, and with Deadpool he has his quirky regen.

Vhailorx

I generally try to avoid direct criticism of the devs, but I have to say that answer from Miles is basically a non-answer.

The question is one about game design (why introduce a new 3* health tier?), but the "answer" was all flavor text ("Iron First is a good fighter and hard to take down!"). That fluff about the marvel universe is nice, but basically meaningless. These are all superheroes we are talking about. They are almost all good fighters, and there is no quantifiable way to measure that sort of puffery anyway.

To date, the only supportable explanation for the new tier is power-creep. What will distinguish new characters from old, and make the new characters desirable, if the new ones aren't better? All you need to do is compare punisher's green to iron fist's.

Punisher's green is his best ability, and it's quite solid. it provides some random board clear and three beefy strike tiles, all for less than 3 matches.

Iron fist's green is his worst ability. If provides decent direct damage and 3 beefy strike tiles for less than three matches. . . unless you have 12 black, in which case it also provides twice the strike tiles. Yay!

Also, iron fist has more health. oh, and he has an ap generating skill that also does tons direct damage for 5 ap. And one of the best passive abilities in the game.

I guess I need to value punisher's random board clearing ability a whole lot more because it is the ONLY thing his green does that Iron First can't replicate or surpass.

mjh

Unknown

We've discussed most of this in previous threads:

Blade: He's an offensive weapon. I've never thought of him as being able to take much damage, he just dishes it out before the enemy has had a chance to fight back. Similarly for Punisher (though his ability power is dated)

Deadpool: he technically 'regenerates' so the devs force them into the same regenerator HP level.

Spiderman: he's not super tough, but he avoids damage (shields) well. Similarly for Daredevil; he stuns his enemies to avoid damage and takes away their weapons.

Black Widow: They've played to this version being more a sniper than a fighter.

Anyways, it's clear someone on the dev team just loves Iron Fist. In terms of game balance, it would make sense to tone down the strength of the ability based on the HP, but then you get nerfs like 4Thor and Ragnarok.

Unknown

Sure, Deadpool has True Healing, but it's literally based on having more HP than his buddies and then they gave him low HP. ****? I've always said Deadpool should have had 8500, but 7650 would be a happy middle ground where he can cover 6800s out of the gate.

There is definitely a list of 3*s that should have their health bumped up to 7650. Blade, Punisher, Beast, Deadpool, maybe Psylocke, Wolverine, and Daken. I get not bumping the regen guys because they are already hard to kill at 6800, but giving Iron Fist and Cyclops 7350 just makes all of these characters slightly worse by comparison. I'd also move a couple of 5950s to 6800, namely Black Widow and Human Torch.

Arondite

mjh wrote:

how to meme

how to meme proper

Unknown

^^
Cyclops has more health than Patch because he is an alien?

Unknown

Cryptobrancus wrote:

^^
Cyclops has more health than Patch because he is an alien?

The 3* Cyclops has 7650 health because he's the super sexy version.

Unknown

Leather > suit and an eyepatch any day.