Thick As Thieves Reward Format Is Terrible

Unknown

I just wanted to give some fgeedback to the devs that I really REALLY dislike the rewards format for Thick As Thieves.

Only giving the good rewards to the top 5 players (2.5%) is just awful. Here are some reasons why:

1 - You need an amazingly good team to place highly, which means that Heroic Tokens are next to useless as a reward. Anyone good enough to place in a bracket where you reward Heroic Tokens has a very small chance to get something useful from them. I pretty much only need 3* covers at this point so I'm as likely to get something useful from a Standard pack as I am from Heroic.

2a - To get top 5 in these tournaments, you need some VERY specific knowledge on how to do it (i.e. understanding rubberbanding and reset times). This knowledge isn't widely available so it skews the results at the tops of the brackets towards the OCD among us.

2b - To get top 5, you need to play at very specific times. As someone with a baby and a job, I can't play at the perfect time every time.

3 - I score a pretty solid top 25 in these tournaments and getting 2x Heroic Tokens and no HP is basically like rewarding me 250+125+125 = 500 ISO for being in the top 10% or better.

It really kills my desire to play when I know that it's impossible for me to earn good rewards simply because I have a life.

Here's my suggestion: Either restore the rewards structure from previous tournaments, or change the structure of the tournaments so that you can win even with a life. I've given up on ever winning a tournament, but I enjoy the fact that I can still profit from a decent showing.

I've been really happy with this game and I even dumped $20 in for some garbage rewards (hooray, **** lottery system!) just to tip the devs. Let's keep the game fun for EVERYONE!

EDIT - Oh and by the way, there's NO WAY IN HELL I'm paying 300 HP to enter a tournament when you structure them so that you have to pay to win (shields!).

Nemek

For the Patch rewards I tend to think of them a bit differently. Yeah, I think you need to be semi-OCD and know exactly how the game works and play at those specific times, but I think that's kind of appropriate for anybody willing to do something crazy like that.

You need to try to cater to both the casual and the hardcore, and the hardcore are the people who realllllly think about the game and do some crazy **** to get ahead. To them, there needs to be something at the end of the road that would reward them for that, otherwise they wouldn't be hardcore about the game (and probably wouldn't stick around.)

Unknown

Then put a 4* reward at #1 and bump everything down a notch.

I think it's a false dichotomy to divide between hardcore and casual as if it's not a scale with many steps in between. For example, I still put in a couple of hours per day on the weekend when I have time. I think that's pretty hardcore for a F2P phone game. It's not like I play for a few minutes and magically get the #10 spot thanks to rubberbanding.

I get catering to the hardcore. But the "rewards" for anything less than 5th place are no such thing.

Eddiemon

Patch is a 3*, so theoretically rarer. Ares was a 2*. Taken in that light the reward structure has possibly a higher value this tournament than last.

I got most of my 3* collection from Heroic tokens. They aren't terrible just because someone else gets a better reward. They only stopped being a good reward when I had most of my 3*s filled out, and even then they generate 25HP when I pull a duplicate.

If you desperately want to get top 5 then skip a sub event. You should get double points next event from rubber banding.

Even without an understanding of play times or rubber banding, the further behind you fall in the main bracket, the more bonus points are thrown at you. Every sub that goes by tips the playing field against previous winners.

NorthernPolarity

Eddiemon wrote:

Patch is a 3*, so theoretically rarer. Ares was a 2*. Taken in that light the reward structure has possibly a higher value this tournament than last.

I got most of my 3* collection from Heroic tokens. They aren't terrible just because someone else gets a better reward. They only stopped being a good reward when I had most of my 3*s filled out, and even then they generate 25HP when I pull a duplicate.

If you desperately want to get top 5 then skip a sub event. You should get double points next event from rubber banding.

Even without an understanding of play times or rubber banding, the further behind you fall in the main bracket, the more bonus points are thrown at you. Every sub that goes by tips the playing field against previous winners.

That doesnt work anymore. Rubberbanding is based off of the subevents now, not the main event, so skipping subs wont do anything.

Unknown

I've landed in the "heroic" category 2 out of the 3 sub-events (I got top 5 in the other), and both times I pulled something useful (blue IW and blue Mag) both times. I am ok with heroic tokens.

Unknown

Eddiemon wrote:

Patch is a 3*, so theoretically rarer. Ares was a 2*. Taken in that light the reward structure has possibly a higher value this tournament than last.

That's a fair point. However Heroic tokens as the next best thing is really weak...

I got most of my 3* collection from Heroic tokens. They aren't terrible just because someone else gets a better reward. They only stopped being a good reward when I had most of my 3*s filled out, and even then they generate 25HP when I pull a duplicate.

They're not terrible because someone else got something better. They're terrible because I don't need a LARGE chunk of what I could get. I don't want to put in all the work to rank top 10 in a tournament only to get 2 more **** Captain America covers that I can sell for 125 each.

At the very least, if they're going to lean on the stupid lottery system, they could do a token that has a higher chance for something good on these tourneys.

If you desperately want to get top 5 then skip a sub event. You should get double points next event from rubber banding.

Even without an understanding of play times or rubber banding, the further behind you fall in the main bracket, the more bonus points are thrown at you. Every sub that goes by tips the playing field against previous winners.

Whether or not this still works, it proves my point about all the arcane knowledge you need to win a damn tournament. Who the hell would do that without specific knowledge? I know it would never have occurred to me to try.

Unknown

buckfanana wrote:

I've landed in the "heroic" category 2 out of the 3 sub-events (I got top 5 in the other), and both times I pulled something useful (blue IW and blue Mag) both times. I am ok with heroic tokens.

I'd say 99% of my Heroic Tokens are 2* Hawkeye, Cap, or 2* Storm.

I got something "useful" on my last pull... a 2* Magneto cover that I didn't have. Unfortunately, I will NEVER level that character so its usefulness is pretty questionable.

The fact that you got a 4* and a 3* is pretty epic. Congrats. Me, I don't have luck like that.

Eddiemon

Nemek wrote:

For the Patch rewards I tend to think of them a bit differently. Yeah, I think you need to be semi-OCD and know exactly how the game works and play at those specific times, but I think that's kind of appropriate for anybody willing to do something crazy like that.

You need to try to cater to both the casual and the hardcore, and the hardcore are the people who realllllly think about the game and do some crazy tinykitty to get ahead. To them, there needs to be something at the end of the road that would reward them for that, otherwise they wouldn't be hardcore about the game (and probably wouldn't stick around.)

Amusingly enough, the OCD is actually self defeating.

If you want to score highest, you need to start within 2 hours of the round opening so you can get 4 clears in.

...but that leads to you being grouped into brackets with all the other OCD people. Casuals who start 'whenever' without a strategy generally will be grouped with similar players unless they are unfortunate to join the OCD waterfall.

Unknown

Nemek wrote:

For the Patch rewards I tend to think of them a bit differently. Yeah, I think you need to be semi-OCD and know exactly how the game works and play at those specific times, but I think that's kind of appropriate for anybody willing to do something crazy like that.

You need to try to cater to both the casual and the hardcore, and the hardcore are the people who realllllly think about the game and do some crazy tinykitty to get ahead. To them, there needs to be something at the end of the road that would reward them for that, otherwise they wouldn't be hardcore about the game (and probably wouldn't stick around.)

Also, the rounds are only 24 hours long and have relatively small brackets. Allowing you to choose a 24 hour period to be hardcore if you want Patch. The longer events and tourneys have a bigger spread of rewards, these rewards are more in line with the LRs except toned down from that because it is bracketed and LR are not. Just my thoughts...

Unknown

Stillhart wrote:

I just wanted to give some fgeedback to the devs that I really REALLY dislike the rewards format for Thick As Thieves.

Only giving the good rewards to the top 5 players (2.5%) is just awful. Here are some reasons why:

1 - You need an amazingly good team to place highly, which means that Heroic Tokens are next to useless as a reward. Anyone good enough to place in a bracket where you reward Heroic Tokens has a very small chance to get something useful from them. I pretty much only need 3* covers at this point so I'm as likely to get something useful from a Standard pack as I am from Heroic.

2a - To get top 5 in these tournaments, you need some VERY specific knowledge on how to do it (i.e. understanding rubberbanding and reset times). This knowledge isn't widely available so it skews the results at the tops of the brackets towards the OCD among us.

2b - To get top 5, you need to play at very specific times. As someone with a baby and a job, I can't play at the perfect time every time.

3 - I score a pretty solid top 25 in these tournaments and getting 2x Heroic Tokens and no HP is basically like rewarding me 250+125+125 = 500 ISO for being in the top 10% or better.

It really kills my desire to play when I know that it's impossible for me to earn good rewards simply because I have a life.

Here's my suggestion: Either restore the rewards structure from previous tournaments, or change the structure of the tournaments so that you can win even with a life. I've given up on ever winning a tournament, but I enjoy the fact that I can still profit from a decent showing.

I've been really happy with this game and I even dumped $20 in for some garbage rewards (hooray, tinykitty lottery system!) just to tip the devs. Let's keep the game fun for EVERYONE!

EDIT - Oh and by the way, there's NO WAY IN HELL I'm paying 300 HP to enter a tournament when you structure them so that you have to pay to win (shields!).

I feel you bro...I have to skip this whole event as the timing is just not ideal for me to play. Imagine I have to wake up around 5am in the morning without alerting my wife and my baby girl who's sleeping...lol
I have to play at my own time and skip it - missing top rewards..while at least I know that I am not gg to spend hours on this game like the past...somehow i feel that it's a good things for me afterall, less gaming more things i can work on.

Guess what? I went ahead and enter the 300hp event and confirmed one thing - my desire on this game is getting lesser as day past by... It's a good thing though..
However this is a good game to kill time...

Unknown

I feel like the rewards in the sub events are fair. We won't all get to fill out Patch this week, but the Heroic tokens are pretty accessible and that will go a long way in filling out my roster to make me more competitive in the next event.

I hate the scaling on these sub events though. It was fun during the first one when the 2nd and 3rd times through got harder and harder, but with the enemy level scaling carrying over to the next sub, it's just out of hand. A really tough fight against a level 230 team can be really exciting. Your adrenaline gets going and you know if you make one little mistake or have a run of bad luck, it's over. But when every fight goes that way, when that adrenaline is always up and you're always on the edge of your seat, that's not excitement. That's just stress.

Unknown

This whole timing thing that everyone is on about bothers me a good bit. I mean, you shouldn't have to time when you play a game to, you know, play a game. Puzzle Quest anything should be casual play, and this shouldn't be an exception. That said:

Playing casual, even against the odds of the whole level up to crazy power villain thing, I've managed to pull off a ranking of between 10th-20th each time. I'm not getting points like I did with the Incredible Sulk, but I'm getting some heroics at least, I guess. I've accepted that I'm not getting Patch out of this, anymore than my currently broken one green Patch at least.

I guess what I'm getting at is if you want to play casual, which I do, you can get away with it. This Maggia event has especially felt like it needs insane attention with rubberbanding, and timing, and throwing your little guys under the wheels so you can actually bring the villains to levels that you can fight them. But it doesn't need to have the attention, and you can get by with enough by just playing when you want to.

Unknown

masamundane wrote:

This whole timing thing that everyone is on about bothers me a good bit. I mean, you shouldn't have to time when you play a game to, you know, play a game. Puzzle Quest anything should be casual play, and this shouldn't be an exception. That said:

Playing casual, even against the odds of the whole level up to crazy power villain thing, I've managed to pull off a ranking of between 10th-20th each time. I'm not getting points like I did with the Incredible Sulk, but I'm getting some heroics at least, I guess. I've accepted that I'm not getting Patch out of this, anymore than my currently broken one green Patch at least.

I guess what I'm getting at is if you want to play casual, which I do, you can get away with it. This Maggia event has especially felt like it needs insane attention with rubberbanding, and timing, and throwing your little guys under the wheels so you can actually bring the villains to levels that you can fight them. But it doesn't need to have the attention, and you can get by with enough by just playing when you want to.

Eh it doesn't really require insane attention. Or tanking. It's accomplishable without either.

The difference is that if you join a bracket early, of course you have to play more. The opposite is true too. If you delay entering, you need less points to catch up, because of the rubberband. The only penalty is that the first to jump in (who tend to finish higher, though not exclusively high) in the sub bracket get more refreshes. That helps in the main bracket, but only for the first few who do that. Beyond the first 3-4, the rest of the top 10 in the main bracket is filled with a mix of people doing a mix of timing.

Unknown

I just want to clarify that I actually REALLY like this game. I'm giving this feedback because I want to help make the game better. I feel the devs took a chance on changing something and it didn't work out. I don't fault them for it, but I also need to let them know.

I feel like they've made the game worse and it saddens me to think they might keep it this way. I'm hoping this format change is something that is unusual and they move back to something more rewarding for people that play more than a "casual" but aren't as "hardcore" as the top players. Looking for a happy middle ground.

Dayv

My only problem with the sub-bracket rewards is that they keep the Patch covers I. The same order, enforcing rarity on green Patch. With the Ares sub-brackets, they varied the cover order.

Unknown

Stillhart wrote:

Here are some reasons why:

Second point is well made, but the first is not true at all, if you have the second. A solid 2-star team would be enough.

Unknown

Misguided wrote:

Stillhart wrote:

Here are some reasons why:

Second point is well made, but the first is not true at all, if you have the second. A solid 2-star team would be enough.

To be fair, I have been getting where I am with a good 2* team. But I guess my point is more that to get that team, I had to play a lot and during that play I got 31 different heroes and pretty much all the 1 and 2* covers. Sure you don't need a lot of good champs to win these subs. But since this game works on a lottery system, getting any champ leveled means getting a LOT of champs leveled.

DayvBang wrote:

My only problem with the sub-bracket rewards is that they keep the Patch covers I. The same order, enforcing rarity on green Patch. With the Ares sub-brackets, they varied the cover order.

Yeah, I agree with this too. Good point, I forgot to mention it. (If I had a chance at getting them, I'd probably have remembered. lol)

Unknown

DayvBang wrote:

My only problem with the sub-bracket rewards is that they keep the Patch covers I. The same order, enforcing rarity on green Patch. With the Ares sub-brackets, they varied the cover order.

I thought that until I noticed they're the other way around in Army of One. So you'll still end up getting all three with high-but-not-first placement in both.

I do think it's an issue that the dedicated grinders are building backup Patches in case they don't like their build or tossing them for HP, because you can't not try to win subs unless it's by one point if you want to continue competing in your main, and you could have him 2/2/2 before this event started, anyway. I see why they wouldn't enable it, because to them covers are a commodity they're trying to sell, but it'd be nice if you could decline cover awards you have no particular use for and they'd go to the next ranked player in your sub.

And it's top 5 of 200. Those are tiny brackets. The top award band in the unbracketed Hulk events was 0.5% (granted, that was a 4*).

Unknown

Veracity wrote:

I do think it's an issue that the dedicated grinders are building backup Patches in case they don't like their build or tossing them for HP, because you can't not try to win subs unless it's by one point if you want to continue competing in your main, and you could have him 2/2/2 before this event started, anyway.

Even the non-grinders like me doing one play through of each sub, just doing each mission twice I've had top 5, top 1 and top 2 finishes so far (the last one after 2 straight hours of inactivity due to work).

And with the intel unlock and more points going in to the main bracket I'll probably end up winning one tomorrow and I already have two useless yellows in my cache.

Unknown

Aren't you more a semi-retired grinder? Heart not quite in it for the gut-wrenching slog, but know what to do to maximize the pay-off from the effort you expend? Not prying, just I think that's distinct from someone who logs in, is all pleased with themselves for playing through all the missions whenever, then wonders how the hell that guy has 11,000 points when they haven't broken 4,000 yet and they did all the missions the game gave them to do. I do suspect the experimental difficulty scaling these geniuses rolled out on a Friday afternoon is biting only the grindmonkies among us really hard, but I also can't imagine the bizarre scoring rules don't end up incredibly disheartening for a lot of the more casual crowd.