Counterpoint: Bite the bullet and nerf everyone

Unknown

That's the exact crux of my argument. They were intended as nukes. They do barely more than 2* abilities that cost half as much that came out much later than his design. Ares for example. The line has shifted.

LThor is a good character. Sure he's a brawly tank but that's what makes him awesome. I'll even say he's on the strong side of the bell curve but that alone is not a reason to change him. Why do people insist on tearing down good characters? "I don't have it so please nerf it" is a terrible terrible argument. "This character is the best so he deserves to be worse" is also a terrible argument. "This character has an infinite combo" is a valid argument.

I'd say some rebalance changes are due, but lets elevate Punisher to Cyclops level, not the other way around.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

That's the exact crux of my argument. They were intended as nukes. They do barely more than 2* abilities that cost half as much that came out much later than his design. Ares for example. The line has shifted.

Er, no, that isn't what I meant. They cost twice as much and do not much more damage than 2* Thor and AWolvie's abilities NOW, much less when Thorverine was more powerful. They cost twice as much and don't do much more than Moonstone and cStorm. Not characters who came "much later," but characters who came at the same time (the beginning of the game). From the beginning of the game, cMags's old purple on a bad day did over 4k damage for 10 AP, Doc Doom did 3k+ over 3 turns for 12 AP, and IM40's red did 3.5k for 17-21 AP. His health was once nice, but his abilities were were ALWAYS way too far behind the curve compared to the game's other nukes.

Lerysh wrote:

LThor is a good character. Sure he's a brawly tank but that's what makes him awesome. I'll even say he's on the strong side of the bell curve but that alone is not a reason to change him. Why do people insist on tearing down good characters? "I don't have it so please nerf it" is a terrible terrible argument. "This character is the best so he deserves to be worse" is also a terrible argument. "This character has an infinite combo" is a valid argument.

Yes because "I don't have LThor" and "anytime a character is the best nerf him" are totally arguments I made and so it makes sense for you to complain to me about them Try "In a game where you get 3+ AP a turn and can boost 3 AP, 12 AP getting you enough damage to end the match (or cripple the team so badly that it practically ends the match unless you get really unlucky) is so fast and oppressive that there is no room for any other gameplay than 'get to 12 AP as fast as possible and discount everything else' which makes every match completely repetitive." What if, looking at a period of 6 turns, we had a CHOICE between trying to get 15 AP to fire a super-powerful nuke, manipulating the board or using tile-changers for that color; or getting 8 AP each for a pair of abilities that'll give us almost as much damage; or getting 9 AP for some strike tiles and countdowns and trying to protect them for the next two turns for a damage payoff similar to the nuke... but when 3 turns is a dead team by direct, immediate damage, well, that's the only strategy that's viable.

You said it yourself, PvP is a game of 2-5 minute battles. Is it really so shocking to you that some people want PvP gameplay that is more involved than "find the black tiles. repeat 3 times. win. skip 40 opponents to find the next battle"

KrazyKeylime

OP you are playing with fire. do you really trust them to just dial it back a bit? Their track record is not so good with nerfing, usually double nerfing abilities in a single change. I suggest you bury this thread and not let it see the light of day. With our luck this will be the one post they look to base their whole next 6 months on. i would not like the game you are trying to make. With each new character they release they announce what the line is and i want to see everyone get up to that line instead of falling behind and left there. please don't wheelchair everyone.

Unknown

gamar wrote:

Yes because "I don't have LThor" and "anytime a character is the best nerf him" are totally arguments I made and so it makes sense for you to complain to me about them Try "In a game where you get 3+ AP a turn and can boost 3 AP, 12 AP getting you enough damage to end the match (or cripple the team so badly that it practically ends the match unless you get really unlucky) is so fast and oppressive that there is no room for any other gameplay than 'get to 12 AP as fast as possible and discount everything else' which makes every match completely repetitive."

"anytime a character is the best nerf him" == "12 AP getting you enough damage to end the match there is no room for other gameplay." You want anyone who is "best" (can kill a guy or wreck a team for 12 AP) to be "not the best".

gamar wrote:

What if, looking at a period of 6 turns, we had a CHOICE between trying to get 15 AP to fire a super-powerful nuke, manipulating the board or using tile-changers for that color; or getting 8 AP each for a pair of abilities that'll give us almost as much damage; or getting 9 AP for some strike tiles and countdowns and trying to protect them for the next two turns for a damage payoff similar to the nuke... but when 3 turns is a dead team by direct, immediate damage, well, that's the only strategy that's viable.

3 turns isn't really a dead team, it's your main firepower dead and the rest is clean up. If it were 3 turns your team is dead he'd be worthy of being nerfed (Sentry). You know who has 8 AP each for a pair of abilities that'll give us almost as much damage? XF. Get 8 green twice is better than 11 black usually, unless you can SS green. And if you think board manipulation doesn't enter into loading up your super nuke as fast as possible, have you see Iron Fist lately? Thor piles in his own board manipulation into his super nukes for 12 yellow into 14 green. Some of the things you say you want exist already in PvP.

Bottom line is 3 things. 1) The gameplay aspects you want already exist in PvE. Bring whoever you want to work well together to beat the nodes. Time is less of a factor (still some, not as bad) and since no possible retaliation for loss of points your gimmick teams can thrive. 2) PvP will NEVER be about anything other than the best possible damage output in the fastest time, even if you nerfed everyone the combo would emerge that kills teams the quickest and that's what people would use. The rotating buff categories just mean that combo will change every 5 days or something. 3) You can't make PvP like PvE. It just ain't happening.

gamar wrote:

You said it yourself, PvP is a game of 2-5 minute battles. Is it really so shocking to you that some people want PvP gameplay that is more involved than "find the black tiles. repeat 3 times. win. skip 40 opponents to find the next battle"

It's not shocking, it's just also not possible. The best status effect is dead. There is a reason protect tiles are widely disregarded as useless even tho they would help you win more matches for less health packs. Unless you can get it out there for free (Cage, Spiderman) you aren't going to see many used.

konannfriends

i dont want any charcaters nerfed.

Lazy thor should be the Goal when buffing and creating new characters

8500 or more health deserves a low costing power say 8 or 9ap , then give them a nuke such as thors call of the storm, or Captain marvels HS Punch.
and then give them a techinical power or passive , like battle plan, energy absorption,

at 6800 health your kinda in the middle. patch, deadpool, daken. even squirrel girl . these characters all seem to be perfectly balanced. except for doc and beast

theres only 4 characters with 5950 or less

Torch- he is pretty balanced for the most part with one of the best reds in the game. i dont understand why his black has a drawback. no character with low health should have a drawback to -powers

gsbw- i think she needs a rework, not a total rags rework, but cost changes and toss the red.

Storm-She has been rotated out so im hoping she gets the slight buffs she needs. 5ap yellow, like it should have always been, fully covered green destroys 16 tiles, and her black has always been good. She will never be top pick whil xforce exist but she could be a speed support with these buffs.

Mystique- she actually looked quite good when she first came out.
as good as her pink is, 8ap is a bit to expensive if she is tanking. bring ap cost down to 7 while coming up with a passive when its destroyed like : Mystiques identity is revealed , she quickly subdues her enemy, stunning them for 2 turns
her blue was recently nerfed and now she is even worse

her black is fine.. but why make it take your team ap, xforces doesnt!


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