4Thor vs. 3Thor

Unknown

A caveat perhaps but one that is almost always entirely true. At least at above 900 points it is.

MarvelMan

Lerysh wrote:

A caveat perhaps but one that is almost always entirely true. At least at above 900 points it is.

I actually tend to see it from ~550 up to 850....after that most people put SheThor in front or have the featured maxed.

Unknown

MarvelMan wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

A caveat perhaps but one that is almost always entirely true. At least at above 900 points it is.

I actually tend to see it from ~550 up to 850....after that most people put SheThor in front or have the featured maxed.

They stop using the maxed featured when he starts costing health packs, or at least you can generally find some that are.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

In MPQ the first kill is the most important one.

The first kill is the most important one for winning the fight, the last kill is the most important one for winning the bracket. Yes, once you down the biggest threat and shut off a couple colors the rest of the fight is much easier and you'll almost always win eventually. However, what matters is winning the whole fight quickly enough to hit more people during a hop, or at your initial push for your first shield. 4Thor leaves behind a board that will much more quickly get you to kill the second and third opponent, verses 3Thor who often kills one guy, does a little damage to the other two, and needs to rebuild from scratch. Sure you aren't threatened by your opponent during that rebuilding, but you are by opposing players. Not only does 4Thor help chain your kills by leaving charged tiles on the board to make the second round quicker and more powerful but she encourages people to skip you, or take longer to hit you, giving you a larger safe window. In PvE it is also vital to hit nodes quickly during the frantic last hour of each sub.

Also, you can just do match damage to XForce while making 10 red and 9 blue to bring him into range.

Unknown

Goobady wrote:

4Thor leaves behind a board that will much more quickly get you to kill the second and third opponent

See this is just patently not true anymore. Even if you successfully Power Smite, that's going to leave a whopping 8 charge tiles on the board, which may or may not even be matchable, may or may not be stolen by your opponent, and definitely lower your damage if you do match them to charge Smite number 2.

4Thor came down to about C.Mags level of usefulness (not power, usefulness, I said what I meant) to me. An ok outlet of Blue/Red if you happen to stumble into a pile of it while getting Green/Black for XF. No longer something you want to try and obtain early for the quick win or easy downed of enemy XF.

3Thor on the other hand can still accelerate red into yellow into green into XF claws. Or into 15,000 damage if he's 280 boosted. There is no question that 280 3Thor is better than 270 4Thor. I'm thinking 166 3Thor is better than 270 4Thor on the mere fact he accelerates green for XF and you can't auto kill your biggest threat with 4Thor anymore.

Arondite

Lerysh wrote:

Goobady wrote:

4Thor leaves behind a board that will much more quickly get you to kill the second and third opponent

See this is just patently not true anymore. Even if you successfully Power Smite, that's going to leave a whopping 8 charge tiles on the board, which may or may not even be matchable, may or may not be stolen by your opponent, and definitely lower your damage if you do match them to charge Smite number 2.

4Thor came down to about C.Mags level of usefulness (not power, usefulness, I said what I meant) to me. An ok outlet of Blue/Red if you happen to stumble into a pile of it while getting Green/Black for XF. No longer something you want to try and obtain early for the quick win or easy downed of enemy XF.

3Thor on the other hand can still accelerate red into yellow into green into XF claws. Or into 15,000 damage if he's 280 boosted. There is no question that 280 3Thor is better than 270 4Thor.

Yeah

I'm thinking 166 3Thor is better than 270 4Thor on the mere fact he accelerates green for XF and you can't auto kill your biggest threat with 4Thor anymore.

Naw

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

I'm leaning towards no. Just like Hulk isn't actually better than Thor for having 4k more HP.

I'm leaning towards no too.

3* Thor buffed has 17k life.
4* Thor unbuffed 16.4k life.

~~~
3* Thor does about 4k damage with Thunder storm for 12 ap, and generates (maybe*) 4-6 green AP chaining into CoTS, which does about 7.4k damage to primary, and 3.7k the team (~15k damage). My suspicion is 3* Thor's acceleration is far superior because after Thunder Strike, you get single color tile generation (i.e. green) and the green tiles match themselves allowing for the followup CoTS in the same turn.

*someone has data on this, I'm sure.

You can end up with a situation not uncommonly where for 12 yellow and 8-9 green you can generate 11.4k to a primary target, and 3.7k to the team for a total of 19k damage. And, factor in that I choose the primary target, so I can minimize the risk to me by taking out the most dangerous green AP user before they even have a chance to make a green match.
~~~

With 4hor, you surge, your acceleration (i.e. charged tiles) are split between three colors then have to take a turn to match tiles to hopefully get a smite. It appears the acceleration is slowed in two ways: the division of the colors in which the ap is generated, and secondly in that you have to end your turn to match those tiles.

I haven't played with 4herf yet, but I would be surprised if she can squeak out 19k damage with the acceleration like buffed 3* Thor can. But I could be wrong. We'll see, I have a 4hor retal node in my queue from someone who hit my 3*Thor team before today's nerf. I'll be responding in kind after the atomic nerf bomb and we'll see who is King of the jungle then.

P.S. I look forward to hear the experiences of those attempting Gauntlet with 4herf. I finished Gauntlet with 4thor early on purpose because the PVE scaling is pretty nuts (lots of level 395 nodes) and I'm skeptical 4herf could handle it.

Update: Now that the nerf kicked in, my 3* Thor retal on that cheeky 4herf (nee' 4hor) escorted her to the tinykitty litter box -- and I repeated the test several times against XF/4herf to confirm - R.I.P.

Chirus

camichan wrote:

4herf

lol, I love these new nicknames. Thor seems to get more than others.

GothicKratos

simonsez wrote:

Just answer the question, and stop talking like you're running for office. If I want GT to kill one character, how many AP do I need? It's a really, really simple question.

It's a simple question, but like many simple things it's a pointless.

Here's a simple, yet effective question; when 3* Thor isn't buffed are there any situations you'll use 3* Thor over 4* Thor, unless Thunder Goddess is out for the time being? Extremely unlikely. Maybe on your climb?

Unknown

"who kills first" is a **** question anyway. Who kills a character first, loki or gamora?

But yeah, gt is plainly worse than fury now

Unknown

GothicKratos wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Just answer the question, and stop talking like you're running for office. If I want GT to kill one character, how many AP do I need? It's a really, really simple question.

It's a simple question, but like many simple things it's a pointless.

Here's a simple, yet effective question; when 3* Thor isn't buffed are there any situations you'll use 3* Thor over 4* Thor, unless Thunder Goddess is out for the time being? Extremely unlikely. Maybe on your climb?

Um, if we're not worried about defensive stuff (not that Thor 4* is scaring anyone anymore), that'd be virtually every event that features someone with a decent green power. X Force alone makes Thunder Strike worth while, but let's just ignore X Force for now. Flame Jet at level 290 burns for about 4200 a turn with 9 green AP, which requires 14 green AP which Thor obviously can get. In about 2 turns after a Thunder Strike someone is going to burn to death from just Flame Jet, and then someone else is going down 3 turns later if they can't get rid of Flame Jet. This is assuming you didn't pick up more than 14 green AP and just dropped down 2 Flame Jets for some hilarious amount of damage. Okay Flame Jet isn't the easiest thing to protect in the world but there isn't anything Thor 4* can do even situationally that comes close to killing someone every 2-3 turns, while Thor 3* will generally be knocking out at least one person and often outright ending game when paired up with a potent green user, which are dime a dozen. Even something that's medium risk like say Berserker Rage -> Thunder Strike -> Berserker Rage will easily do over 10K damage when Patch is boosted. The new guy just previewed will hit for at least 5K on everyone when he/she is boosted and again that's easily comboed from a Thunder Strike.

The only consideration for Thor is that doubling up on green (since he has a very good green too) might somewhat limit your options so your team could be easier to attack, but it's not like someone attacking a Thor 4* is going to be worried about any of her moves now either. At least you still have a credible yellow. No it's not as versatile as say Fury who attacks on 3 hard to defend colors, but Fury also doesn't really combo into anything by himself either.

whitecat31

GothicKratos wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Just answer the question, and stop talking like you're running for office. If I want GT to kill one character, how many AP do I need? It's a really, really simple question.

It's a simple question, but like many simple things it's a pointless.

Here's a simple, yet effective question; when 3* Thor isn't buffed are there any situations you'll use 3* Thor over 4* Thor, unless Thunder Goddess is out for the time being? Extremely unlikely. Maybe on your climb?

Going to disagree with you. There will be situations. If the PVP is featuring characters who will normally have the strongest opposing color as green and especially yellow , than LThor is going to better then 4nerf. Why?
Because of Surgical Strike and how well it works with Lthor's Thunder Strike.
Example. Powered up Event with yellow strongest color . Use surgical strike to generate yellow AP . Use yellow gained to do Thunder Strike. Can even use LThors Red first to add 3 yellow to the board before surgical.
Example. Powered up Event with green strongest color . Save up AP for surgical and Thunder strike. Cast Thunder Strike adding lots of Green tile to the board. Cast Surgical with an average of 14 green tiles on the board.

Spoit

GothicKratos wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Just answer the question, and stop talking like you're running for office. If I want GT to kill one character, how many AP do I need? It's a really, really simple question.

It's a simple question, but like many simple things it's a pointless.

Here's a simple, yet effective question; when 3* Thor isn't buffed are there any situations you'll use 3* Thor over 4* Thor, unless Thunder Goddess is out for the time being? Extremely unlikely. Maybe on your climb?

If the featured char is strong in yellow, but doesn't actually have a very useful yellow. Like LC or falcon

simonsez

GothicKratos wrote:

Here's a simple, yet effective question; when 3* Thor isn't buffed are there any situations you'll use 3* Thor over 4* Thor, unless Thunder Goddess is out for the time being? Extremely unlikely. Maybe on your climb?

So you're asking which I'd use for hops? I don't expect to use either. GT is too damn slow.

Raffoon

Anyone else feel like them temporarily buffing 3* Thor the same week they nerf 4* Thor is kind of an extra little bit of spit in the eye from the dev's?

Unknown

Raffoon wrote:

Anyone else feel like them temporarily buffing 3* Thor the same week they nerf 4* Thor is kind of an extra little bit of spit in the eye from the dev's?

Ironically, it reminded me in spite of it being Women's Month of the recent national discussion in the U.S. how women on average make 70% of the pay of men for equivalent jobs (including in the U.S. President's own executive branch), and that it's not that people support the glaring sexism, but that it's just built into the fabric of our institutions altogether, and most just simply fail to see it, and rightfully dismantle it. (Are there any female MPQ chars in the top tier now?)

John Oliver offered a tongue in cheek solution to all this if you want to check it out on youtube.

But yeah... 4herf (nee' 4hor) feels like she's pretty much about ~70% of buffed and ostensibly equivalent Thor, on par with the national institutionalized level of sexism. I'm not saying it was intentional, but, that's kind of the point. Like Vonnegut said, "So it goes".

P.S. The sad irony here is that Marvel Comics has been on the frontier of inclusiveness for a long time. Something to be proud of.