Are 4* characters worth the effort?

TheVulture

I'd have to say no, except for X-Force.

As pointed out above, X-Force is both easier for veteran players to collect + of course streets ahead as a combatant.

From a PvE perspective the 4* tier is a poison chalice, with the horrendous scaling factored in...
> Sticking at 2* = limited character options w/ lower diversity, limited PvP potential
> Sticking at 3* = huge range of diverse character, high PvP potential, downside of overscaled lower characters & goons
> 4* tier = max. PvP potential, but narrow roster of mediocre characters & all enemies overscaled to tedious damage sponges

The highest recommendation for 4* I can give therefore is that, at some point in the life of MPQ, you might aspire to level 2 quality 4* characters - never using them for PvE - and ignore the rest.

Unknown

from the video thread:

Demiurge_Will wrote:

X-Force is above the band (though not as far above as Thor (Goddess of Thunder) was) and Invisible Woman is below.

Elektra is a less clear-cut case. Her abilities don't have an opportunity to come into their own for advanced players in part because of the current speed of high-end Versus play. She becomes stronger with the changes to 4-star Thor, for example. Looking at win rates of teams that include her, she's doing well in survival missions. I'd like her to be used more often, but there are other balance issues that have bigger impacts.

No ETA on any changes that might result from these observations - we try not to announce changes until we can give you a timeline for them.

I would like to change my response to "Only Xforce is worth levelling for now".

Apparently a 4* is worthwhile if they are good in survival... cause those modestly scaled survival nodes are tough.... I wasn't beating them with any old tat just for fun....

The funniest bit is implying Elektra would be good if everything slows down a bit, and that'll come from nerfing 4*s. You can slaughter her in no time flat with 3*s.... makes you wonder what game they play.

Unknown

Super no, as a dev is now confirming that xforce is above the band where they want 4* to be. So echoing what I stated earlier, clearly there are more advantageous and economical options to put your efforts into than 4*s that will eventually suffer the inevitable nerf.

MarvelMan

bonfire01 wrote:

from the video thread:

Demiurge_Will wrote:

X-Force is above the band (though not as far above as Thor (Goddess of Thunder) was) and Invisible Woman is below.

Elektra is a less clear-cut case. Her abilities don't have an opportunity to come into their own for advanced players in part because of the current speed of high-end Versus play. She becomes stronger with the changes to 4-star Thor, for example. Looking at win rates of teams that include her, she's doing well in survival missions. I'd like her to be used more often, but there are other balance issues that have bigger impacts.

No ETA on any changes that might result from these observations - we try not to announce changes until we can give you a timeline for them.

Does he realize that he just told people that XF isnt worth aspiring to? Which, after the SheThor neutering, was going to be the only worthwhile one anyway?

I say rework the poll to only have the No response.

Unknown

MarvelMan wrote:

bonfire01 wrote:

from the video thread:

Demiurge_Will wrote:

X-Force is above the band (though not as far above as Thor (Goddess of Thunder) was) and Invisible Woman is below.

Elektra is a less clear-cut case. Her abilities don't have an opportunity to come into their own for advanced players in part because of the current speed of high-end Versus play. She becomes stronger with the changes to 4-star Thor, for example. Looking at win rates of teams that include her, she's doing well in survival missions. I'd like her to be used more often, but there are other balance issues that have bigger impacts.

No ETA on any changes that might result from these observations - we try not to announce changes until we can give you a timeline for them.

Does he realize that he just told people that XF isnt worth aspiring to? Which, after the SheThor neutering, was going to be the only worthwhile one anyway?

I say rework the poll to only have the No response.

This is basically why I voted "I don't know" because I don't. Unless some change comes in the future that makes 4*s relevant to gameplay beyond "XF does the most damage the quickest" then they are virtually useless as characters.

I do disagree with your ordering of 4*s tho, Star Lord belongs in mid tier. Its damage is too high to ignore, even if it's tied to CDs. Sleight of Hand goes of like 99% of the time, plus can destroy a pesky special tile (Prof X Invisible anyone?).

Unknown

For me, it all comes down to how you want to spend your HP. The only cover I've bought is a black XF which was the last he needed, and I still have 3700 banked. I don't see the point of buying 3* covers because these are relatively ease to gain, and now that we have DDQ, it has become even easier. If you have a decent collection of 3* (5-7 strong characters) and IF you can get to 1000, even if you have to use a reasonable amount of HP from shields, then I'd suggest you do it if you want to. Where else are you going to spend the HP you gain? Leveling 3* whom you'll never use and who will be featured on a pvp sooner or later?

For example, I still need several covers for Blade (2/1/1), Deadpool (2/2/1), Gamora (2/2/3) and Iron Fist (1/1/3), but I don't see the necessity to spend a couple hundred $ to enjoy the game. Of course, I am talking from the position of someone who has the majority of 3* characters fully covered (although only a couple are at max level), so we might have nothing in common. I was lucky I started playing when XF and IW were the only 4* (tokens dropped 4-5 of XF's covers) and I was able to get 12 covers before I left the game for almost 7 months. Now it's definitely harder to compete for #1 in pvp, although the 1000 progression reward is within the reach of more players.

Unknown

So the PvP buff change might make 4*s worth the effort. 2 random 4*s buffed for a week? Might shake things up, might not, but it for sure gives a reason for existance to the "balanced" teir of Prof X, Fury, Star Lord, and Thor.

simonsez

Lerysh wrote:

So the PvP buff change might make 4*s worth the effort. 2 random 4*s buffed for a week? Might shake things up, might not, but it for sure gives a reason for existance to the "balanced" teir of Prof X, Fury, Star Lord, and Thor.

The way abilities scale, I'm thinking a lv280 3* is going to be way stronger than a lv330 4*...

GuntherBlobel

My vote is no, but I don't consider that a bad thing. The 3* game is great! If you get stuck in a transition, the 3 --> 4* Transition is the place to get stuck.I like the new rare mechanics that 4*s bring to the game, so bring them on, but I don't expect to fully cover any of them.

dfields3710

Me I have 4 of the 8 4* characters*(starlord, xforce, 4hor, and elektra) they are very time consuming and I only have one cover in 3 of them(3 in on xforce personally since I have them (not upgraded) I don't see there worth. Whereas my lvl 94 moonstone can take out 2max lvl 166 character before she dies leaving two other characters to end the remaining one is very useful.

I do wish I could exchange 4*characters to get ones I actually want(nick fury) cause their original lvls suck and they don't get good until you max out at least one cover or at least one or two covers in each lvl. And the way pvp is going these days I'm going to have them at original lvl until I buy more hero points.

Unknown

dfields3710 wrote:

Me I have 4 of the 8 4* characters*(starlord, xforce, 4hor, and elektra) they are very time consuming and I only have one cover in 3 of them(3 in on xforce personally since I have them (not upgraded) I don't see there worth. Whereas my lvl 94 moonstone can take out 2max lvl 166 character before she dies leaving two other characters to end the remaining one is very useful.

I do wish I could exchange 4*characters to get ones I actually want(nick fury) cause their original lvls suck and they don't get good until you max out at least one cover or at least one or two covers in each lvl. And the way pvp is going these days I'm going to have them at original lvl until I buy more hero points.

...wait...you actually use moonstone?....wait...what...standing ovation to you sir for bravery!

evil panda

No, they aren't. And I couldn't give you even a halfway good reason if you held a gun to my head. And wth are you doing holding guns to people's heads over a match3 video game??

Anger about Thor nerf aside, one of the most curious decisions D3 has made is to outright state that 4* are not supposed to be a higher power tier (did they actually say that? Their actions do speak loudly..). I thought that was the whole point! And they got people excited, competitive and spending lots of money to acquire her. Without a higher power tier to aspire to, then motivation wanes considerably. That less than halfway good reason I can come up with is....I'm a completionist and I like having a file of marvel characters on my phone?

If 4* are a higher power tier, they've increased their game's longevity, profitability and enjoyability. But they're going in the other direction. Very curious.

Btw I've come to partially accept the explanation that Thor was nerfed because of future charged tile exploitation. But I wish they would have left smite damage alone. That simple change would have kept 4* thor at a higher power tier and profitably aspirational to both D3 and the player. Oh wells.

GuntherBlobel

evil panda wrote:

Anger about Thor nerf aside, one of the most curious decisions D3 has made is to outright state that 4* are not supposed to be a higher power tier (did they actually say that? Their actions do speak loudly..). I thought that was the whole point! And they got people excited, competitive and spending lots of money to acquire her.

Well, maybe that's what they thought and it didn't work out that way. We all know that people buy 4* covers, but did enough people? Did 3* cover sales drop by more than half? They recently removed HP purchases for Alliance slots and TU patrol times. Why would an MPQ ever remove a player's opportunity to spend HP? Doesn't even a single purchase justify it's existence? The answer seems to be "no."

Or maybe they just set the 4* bar too high with X-Force and Thor, such that designing equally desirable 4* characters (without breaking the game) became too burdensome.

dfields3710

EpicBeastmode wrote:

dfields3710 wrote:

Me I have 4 of the 8 4* characters*(starlord, xforce, 4hor, and elektra) they are very time consuming and I only have one cover in 3 of them(3 in on xforce personally since I have them (not upgraded) I don't see there worth. Whereas my lvl 94 moonstone can take out 2max lvl 166 character before she dies leaving two other characters to end the remaining one is very useful.

I do wish I could exchange 4*characters to get ones I actually want(nick fury) cause their original lvls suck and they don't get good until you max out at least one cover or at least one or two covers in each lvl. And the way pvp is going these days I'm going to have them at original lvl until I buy more hero points.

...wait...you actually use moonstone?....wait...what...standing ovation to you sir for bravery!

Wats wrong with moonstone her max level red mixed with cyclops yellow is a tank killer honestly her purple ain't that good cause there are usually special tiles but that is what falcon is for and just keep her in the back for massive match damage and she should be good. I never faced massive team damage so I have no opinion and a good Web bandage team up can keep her alive for another turn or two.

mohio

I voted no for the following 2 reasons. 1) I assumed everyone knows xforce is worth it (as bonfire said, "for now") so they're looking for advice on the others. 2) even if a 270 4* is marginally better/faster than the best maxed 3*, I don't think that justifies the months of progression rewards (although some of us get these pretty trivially, it's still a long time), plus like 2.5x the amount of iso needed. I won't even go into spending HP on them or the possibilities of future nerfs if they're found to be too good.

On a side note I was super excited for 4hor and fought hard for months for her, which really kept me going in this game since nothing else exciting was being added. With her nerf and the realization that 4* are just not a worthy tier to really strive towards it's mostly killed my excitement for the game. I have way more fun in line with my alliance and in our battle chat than I do playing this game's tedious repetition of the same thing over and over. I hope the PvP buff experiment changes things but I'm not optimistic. Even if it helps it will be a temporary band aid since it will feel stale in its own right after the novelty wears off and people settle on the best teams again.

evil panda

GuntherBlobel wrote:

evil panda wrote:

Anger about Thor nerf aside, one of the most curious decisions D3 has made is to outright state that 4* are not supposed to be a higher power tier (did they actually say that? Their actions do speak loudly..). I thought that was the whole point! And they got people excited, competitive and spending lots of money to acquire her.

Well, maybe that's what they thought and it didn't work out that way. We all know that people buy 4* covers, but did enough people? Did 3* cover sales drop by more than half? They recently removed HP purchases for Alliance slots and TU patrol times. Why would an MPQ ever remove a player's opportunity to spend HP? Doesn't even a single purchase justify it's existence? The answer seems to be "no."

Or maybe they just set the 4* bar too high with X-Force and Thor, such that designing equally desirable 4* characters (without breaking the game) became too burdensome.

I get the point you are trying to make - none of us has the real data - but your scenario seems counter intuitive to me. But i concede, not inpossible. And I don't think the TU examples are in the same ballpark - we're talking about "reason to play the game" stuff, not peripheral things

Your very last theory is plausible - I can see how effective character design can be tough at the highest level.

puppychow

EpicBeastmode wrote:

dfields3710 wrote:

Me I have 4 of the 8 4* characters*(starlord, xforce, 4hor, and elektra) they are very time consuming and I only have one cover in 3 of them(3 in on xforce personally since I have them (not upgraded) I don't see there worth. Whereas my lvl 94 moonstone can take out 2max lvl 166 character before she dies leaving two other characters to end the remaining one is very useful.

I do wish I could exchange 4*characters to get ones I actually want(nick fury) cause their original lvls suck and they don't get good until you max out at least one cover or at least one or two covers in each lvl. And the way pvp is going these days I'm going to have them at original lvl until I buy more hero points.

...wait...you actually use moonstone?....wait...what...standing ovation to you sir for bravery!

Moonstone is actually pretty awesome if you give her a chance. For me, the problem is that while I have her fully covered, I don't have enough iso to max her out when there are other alternatives with stronger cases to be maxxed. If D3 ever decides to reduce the cost of her bk ability, she'll be a fantastic Prof X invisible tile neutralizer.

tanis3303

Well, let's math:

I just maxed cyclops, he cost me $0 and 130,000 ISO (he was at lvl 100). His red does 4,200 damage for 10 red, and his black does 9,000 damage for 13 black. Has a strategic power that can cause cascades of red AP and/or charge his black power to full blast for 7 yellow. Has pretty decent health.

I maxed Thora a few weeks ago, cost me $40 to buy three covers, and 430,000 ISO. Post nerf she does 4,000 damage for 10 red, and up to 7,500+ with a combination of 10 red and 9 blue. Creates a few charged tiles and a 3 turn stun that could possibly combo to create enough AP to use this combo again, but is board/luck dependent. Has a yellow power that is practically useless and cost 12 AP. Has a nice pool of hit points to chew through to down her.

If Cyclops and Thora leave the station at 2:00pm traveling at 125mph, and the square root of Wade Wilson is a taco, which makes more sense to invest in?

In conclusion: No tinykitty way are 4* characters worth the resources.