Tuning and improving Beast

ronin_san

I'm on a roll. I really like the discussion that came from the XFW and Doc Ock topics, and wanted to go over why we hate Beast.
Here's what I hate, and my take on how he can be moved into usability.

First. The is just all-over-the-place. It might be a protect tile. It might be an attack or strike tile. But if it's a genius in a lab, truly, he should know what he's doing. He's replicating an experiment. RIGHT? A lab is a sterile, sanitary environment. Let me choose the lab of my choice, and the conditions I want. But we know, at least the way the movies depict it (as with First Class), that he's blue because of a failure.


So I propose:

Experimental Serum. 5AP. Beast attempts to prepares a genetic cure for mutation, placing a TRAP tile on the board at a location OF YOUR CHOOSING.. IF the tile procs normally, it generates an attack tiles of strength 160. If it is destroyed, it generates strike tiles of strength 120. At Max Level, place 2 trap tiles.

You either let his experiment go off, to the enemy detriment, which attacks the mutagens in the enemy, or you anger the beast, and he has cause to lash out.

The Beast within. 10AP Beast lunges at the enemy and does 3100 dmg (max level, fully covered) and destroys equal to the number of green in your pool. If the amount exceeds the ability cost, the target is stunned 2 turns.

Ever the Multitasker. PASSIVE. Beast's supreme agility is not simply a physical feat. If Beast makes a match 5, place an Experimental Serum TRAP tile. at max level, place 3.



The thought here is, he's not going to rock anyone's world, but it at least let's him earn his namesake. Let him actually be able to fight. I went a bit 2* Wolverine's amount of dmg with the and a bit Hulk's clap. I though it best to ditch the heal, since we're unlikely to see a true heal from his respec. I wanted him to be a thinker, a planner, and a fighter.

Please chime in and criticize as needed. Thanks for reading.

ronin_san

Quick reply, outside of the original post. I expect you to disagree or really work around my idea. DO that. Tell me how the heal needs to stay, or how the attack-all ability is worth keeping.

I wanted something different but not unfamiliar with Beast.

Mawtful

If I had known this was coming I wouldn't have given both Threaten and Tommy Gun to Doc Ock! I guess he can get Media Cover and Morale Boost.

I guess this can be a placeholder while I think of something meaningful to contribute. Although now that I'm thinking about Media Cover, being able to generate TU tiles would at least give him some synergy with Cyke.

Edit: Here's my take,
Currently, Beast has some problems.

One of those is the fact that 2 of his abilities really need to make use of the 3rd ability before they are even worth using. It's a recursion of the Spider-Man problem - Web Bandages definitely needs you to have created multiple web tiles before you use it; Spider-Senses will still actually get by without webs, but it's considerably better with them. Beast's "move reliance" is compounded by the fact that Mutagenic Breakthrough is just not that great.
I like the idea of Beast as a "support brawler", so I wanted to try and stick to that. I also realised that making him generate Team Up tiles is actually kind of thematic because he's been in a bunch of team. Beast has also undergone a number of secondary or additional mutations. That's certainly a core part of his character, so I wanted to try and explore that.

Max health increased to 7650.

Research & Development (Active-Passive Blue, 6 AP)
Passive: At the start of each turn, Beast places a trap on a random tile.

Active: Select a trap. The experiment resolves, as follows:
Yellow: Converts the tile into a friendly Protect tile.
Red: Converts the tile into a friendly Strike tile.
Blue: Stuns the target enemy for 1 turn.
Green: Deals X damage to the target enemy.
Black: Converts the tile into a friendly attack tile.
Purple: Steals 3 AP of the enemy's strongest colour.
Team Up: Grants a burst of health to the team.

Rank 1: Traps appear on Yellow, Green, and Team Up tiles only.
Rank 2: Traps can also appear on Red and Black tiles.
Rank 3: Traps can also appear on Blue and Purple tiles.
Rank 4: Increased special tile strength.
Rank 5: Create an additional trap each turn.

Yes, this ability is ridiculously wordy, and would never make it into the game in its current form. I think you could maybe cut it down to only 3 different effects and group the colours like the boosts (red yellow = effect 1, blue purple = effect 2, green black = effect 3). Still, this was the original idea and that's what I wanted to present since I think it really shows off Beast as a genius. He's running multiple experiments all the time, then when he needs to, he can resolve one that he chooses to get the effect that he wants at that time. Special tile strengths would need to be about average since it's only 6AP to activate, however traps are placed at random, so you might be holding on to AP until you get a trap on the colour you want.

Leader of the Pack (Active Green, 9 AP)
Beast lashes out, striking his opponent and leaving an opening for his team mates. Deals X damage. Converts Y basic tiles to Team Up tiles.

I think this could probably mirror Thunderstrike, with slightly reduced numbers. Rank 5 would be ~2k damage (single target) and create 5 Team Up tiles.
Beast has been a member of just about every X-group and the Avengers, so team ups for everyone! This gives him synergy with Cyclops and Storm. And Magneto, even though 3* Mags is a villain.

The Next Mutation (Passive Yellow)
After being wounded, Beast experiences an involuntary secondary mutation. His animal instincts are sharpened, but his mind is dulled.

Rank 1: If Beast drops below 25% health; when he attacks by making a match he also deals X additional damage, his other abilities increase cost by 2 AP, he regenerates Y health at the start of each turn.
Rank 2: Mutation occurs if below 40% health.
Rank 3: Mutation occurs if below 55% health.
Rank 4: Other abilities are only increased by 1 AP, increased regeneration.
Rank 5: Mutation occurs if below 75% health.

This was a bit tricky. Beast has mutated a number of times, sometimes through his own experimentation and sometimes through other external influences. In some cases he's become very bestial/animal after mutation, the increase in strength/agility is accompanied by a decrease in his cognitive abilities.

This is a bit of a blend of existing passives. Like 2* Wolverine, the health serves as a kind of switch; he drops below the threshold, the passive takes effect, but once he heals above that threshold, he no longer has those effects. If you let him sit at the back for a while, he'll heal back up past the threshold. There's also the double dip on damage like OBW; I wanted to give him increased strength without using a Strike tile which the rest of his team could also use. He also gets a "penalty" to using his other abilities at this time. I think this creates an interesting choice between ranks 3, 4 and 5 - the lower rank means it's longer before the Mutation takes over, so "cheaper" abilities for longer, but with less additional damage. At the higher ranks the 1 AP penalty is still enough to push his abilities into the next number of required match-3's (eg. 6 AP is 2 match 3's, 7 AP is either an extra turn or a lucky match 4+).

I've kept his abilities with the same colours and same order as he currently has. I think The Next Mutation is definitely Yellow, however Leader of the Pack could also be Red, and Research & Development is probably more of a cunning Purple ability. I'm not too good at coming up with numbers in terms of special tile strength or ability damage, but I think the abilities are just about costed right. With original ability colours, well, maybe he still wouldn't get a run, since Leader of the Pack isn't better than X-Force so why ever use it, right? If it was Red, he loses synergy with Cyclops a little. I guess you can't win them all.

konannfriends

is his green and aoe? if so then raise ap cost to 11 since it could also cascade.

i dont like the yellow, i know heals arent as useful as they used to be but still someone got to have them.

i kinda wanna do a rework now!

KrazyKeylime

i was rethinking beast before it was cool
http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=24021

Pylgrim

Also have been thinking about Beast:

Mutagenic Breakthrough - 9 Blue AP
Hank's research on the X gen has resulted in a promising but unstable chemical compound! Place a trap on a basic coloured tile of your choice. Whenever you match tiles of that colour, deal 33% more damage. (Note: several traps in tiles of the same colour give no cumulative bonus damage.)
Level 2: The chemical backfires when improperly handled! If the trap tile is destroyed by an enemy, that character is stunned for 2 turns.
Level 3: Whenever you make a match in the chosen colour, gain 1 additional AP of that colour.
Level 4: Whenever you make a match in the chosen colour, deal 66% more damage.
Level 5: Whenever you make a match in the chosen colour, deal 100% more damage and gain 2 additional AP. Stuns for 3 turns when the trap is destroyed by an enemy.

Animal Inside - PASSIVE-ACTIVE Green 12 AP
Dr. McCoy struggles to keep his feral instincts in check while faced with the enemies' antics, and then the Beast is unleashed. Whenever an opponent destroys a friendly special tile, the cost of this ability is decreased by 1 until its next use (minimum 7). Choose a coloured tile; Beast destroys each tile in that colour, dealing 22 damage per tile to each opponent.
Level 2: 41 damage per tile to all enemies.
Level 3: 63 damage per tile to all enemies.
Level 4: Also halves the amount of AP of that colour from the enemy reserves.
Level 5: 98 damage per tile to all enemies. Completely depletes the enemy reserves of AP in that colour.
Max Level: 171 damage per tile to all enemies.

Medical Marvel - Yellow 10 AP
Beast cares for his wounded allies with his impressive triage skills, but lashes back ferociously if interrupted. Creates a 2-turn countdown on a random yellow tile that gives a burst of 333 health to allies whenever it ticks down. If the countdown tile is destroyed by an enemy, Beast deals 615 damage to that character.
Level 2: Gives a burst of 429 health to allies.
Level 3: Creates a 3-turn countdown.
Level 4: Deals 985 damage to the enemy that destroys the tile.
Level 5: Gives a burst of 512 health to allies. When the countdown reaches 0, it is replaced by a strength 45 Strike tile.
Max Level: 781 healing per turn / strength 175 Strike tile /2570 damage to enemy that destroys the countdown tile.

I decided to move Beast from caring about having a specific kind of tile on the board to caring about having friendly special tiles destroyed which is a much more common occurrence. Not only now the special tiles placed by his yellow and blue have their own "failsafes", but also, whenever those tiles (or any other friendly tile) are destroyed, his green becomes cheaper, potentially becoming the least expensive AoE effect in the game.

Mawtful

Bumping because I crave validation. And feedback; but mostly validation - I didn't write up a rework of Beast just to have the thread drop of the first page and into obscurity.

KrazyKeylime

these are very good, better then mine well done

Unknown

Maybe if his experiment dropped its special tiles in the 4 corners of the board I might not hate him so, but honestly I enjoy thinking about fun ways to tweak Ock to bring him up, but I have no idea where to even start with Beast...