Why I will still go for Thor/Wolverine? (despite the nerfs)

Yeggy

I've been playing for 9 days now and have asked for advice. People tell me to start transitioning to uncommons.
I have seen that apparently thor and wolverine are overpowered and everyone is using them. So much that they will get nerfed.

Now, I can easily see how people with high level characters can easily get any uncommon they want to high level with enough covers. I have not yet seen anyone make the point of availability of covers.

When you come to the forums and ask for advice, people tell you to transition to uncommons, mainly Thor Wolverine. Why? Because they are strong? But you also have 1/1/1 guaranteed for both of them through Prologue missions. You also get 1 Red Thor cover on day 12 of daily rewards. There are other uncommons accessable through Prologue. You can get 1/1/1 Classic Storm and 2/1 Daken (+ 1 Purple on Day 30 from daily Rewards). Storm has no Hit Points (neither does daken but he can regen) and Daken has no Active abilities and is maxed at 69 (as opposed to 85). I hereby declare, by my standards, that among these uncommons easily obtainable by new players, the best ones are Thor and Wolverine.

They are strong, yes. They need a nerf? Perhaps, I am new to this game so I can't offer an informed opinion. But the reason these characters are overused is the lack of other options, particularly for the new players. I don't even know how good are the other uncommons. This game has very few of characters in general. I do hear that these "Thorverine" are used instead of rares and such, but again, availability of rares is much scarcer...

I disregard the potential to earn Thor and Wolverine covers from SHIELD missions as I think it's not realistic for a new player (if at all...). If, however, I am wrong on this point and it's actually feasible to get the needed rating to earn Thor and Wolvie then that further increases the availability of these 2 staples.

In conclusion, there are few easily accessible and viable options for uncommons in this game right now and nerfs (while arguably needed) won't solve the core issue of how these cards came to be used everywhere.

Do you think these 2 characters are too good? Is it a matter of how others cards fare in comparison to these or is it also a matter of ease of access to certain covers?

NorthernPolarity

I think the main issue is that thor/wolvie isnt just dominating the 2* slot, its also dominating/obsoleting much of the 3* covers. Look at cards like ragnarok, doom, punisher, etc. wolvie/thor shouldnt be more damage efficient than most of the 3* slots, but thats what weve been seeing recently.

turul

There is no character too good. There are charachters which are too bad.

Nemek

Thor/Wolverine should serve a purpose. And that is to transition to the 3* covers. In their current implementation, it discourages players from making that transition.

I'm not totally with the majority of players, since I do think that the current 3 star characters are better than Thor/Wolv already. But the distinction should probably be larger (like the 1 vs 2 star characters.)

Unknown

I think it basically comes down to there being too little ISO (via rewards) to level up the three star characters to be strong enough to be a viable option.

I would probably use a max leveled Hood or Doom instead. But instead of maxing them, I have poured all my ISO into new characters or characters that are currently buffed in existing tournaments.

So Doom and Hood are basically hanging out in the 60-80 lvl range and being unused.

Yeggy

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I think the main issue is that thor/wolvie isnt just dominating the 2* slot, its also dominating/obsoleting much of the 3* covers. Look at cards like ragnarok, doom, punisher, etc. wolvie/thor shouldnt be more damage efficient than most of the 3* slots, but thats what weve been seeing recently.

Are Thor/Wolvie being used more than 3* or also beating 3*? If it's a matter of being used more often, I make, once more, the point of availability. It's pretty hard to max out a rare unless you've been around for a while.

Do 3* do less damage than Thor/Wolvie when maxed? Are Thor/Wolverine beating maxed 3* when played by AI? Otherwise, Thor/Wolverine are easier to max, Thor has decent HP and Wolverine has Regen, which is enough to keep them competitive.

I forgot to mention that I think Wolverine's green ability is way too cheap, that's certain. Nothing that gives you a short term benefit (instant damage) and a long term one (strike tiles) should cost matching tiles once, or an ap stockpile. Not when no other character has something as good.

Unknown

OBW and Storm C. Should be very high priority for you after you have a tank like Thor or wolvie. They both have tons of longevity and I still use them both frequently even with a pretty good 3* roster.

Unknown

I know that while I was still really really new I was able to get Cap and Mod Hawkeye covers pretty quickly through the Hulk's event. The most recent Hunt was all about Ares, and most players could be reasonably expected to get at least a couple of his covers.

If the devs do that kind of thing more often - make a character easily available temporarily through events - that should go a long way in increasing diversity.

NorthernPolarity

Yeggy wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I think the main issue is that thor/wolvie isnt just dominating the 2* slot, its also dominating/obsoleting much of the 3* covers. Look at cards like ragnarok, doom, punisher, etc. wolvie/thor shouldnt be more damage efficient than most of the 3* slots, but thats what weve been seeing recently.

Are Thor/Wolvie being used more than 3* or also beating 3*? If it's a matter of being used more often, I make, once more, the point of availability. It's pretty hard to max out a rare unless you've been around for a while.

Do 3* do less damage than Thor/Wolvie when maxed? Are Thor/Wolverine beating maxed 3* when played by AI? Otherwise, Thor/Wolverine are easier to max, Thor has decent HP and Wolverine has Regen, which is enough to keep them competitive.

I forgot to mention that I think Wolverine's green ability is way too cheap, that's certain. Nothing that gives you a short term benefit (instant damage) and a long term one (strike tiles) should cost matching tiles once, or an ap stockpile. Not when no other character has something as good.

I think that thor/wolvie are comparable to the low-mid tier 3*s. Hp/match damage wise, the 3*s win, but wolvie/thor have very powerful abilities that compensate for this. I guess the issue is that 3*s feel more like a sidegrade rather than a direct upgrade to these guys (punisher should be a direct wolvie upgrade, but wolvies strike tiles are still better). I will admit that the issue is largely regarding iso scarcity as toxic said and how 3*s need to be 100+ in order to surpass wolvie/thor in terms of stats.

Unknown

The biggest reason Thor+Wolverine are so dominant is because they win quickly and benefit the most from boosts. Most 3*'s have abilities that are more utility-based, or slower to get off the ground, so they lose desirability in a blitz meta where you're trying to win in under a minute. Right now, Wolverine and Thor will outdamage nearly any maxed 3* if they use boosts, because they have cheap setup skills that lead into big damage on turn 1.

Unknown

They are pretty much built with the complete package for the meta. Quick damage and tanky at the same time, while not being complete pushovers on defense. Rags and Patch were/are replacements--one already nerfed and the other brand new.

That said, I don't see any problem in building them up as I doubt they will be nerfed to uselessness. Even Rags still has uses and I'm sure the nerfs won't be as bad as his.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I guess the issue is that 3*s feel more like a sidegrade rather than a direct upgrade to these guys (punisher should be a direct wolvie upgrade, but wolvies strike tiles are still better). I will admit that the issue is largely regarding iso scarcity as toxic said and how 3*s need to be 100+ in order to surpass wolvie/thor in terms of stats.

We'll see what they actually do to **Wolv and Thor, but at the very least Feral Claws clearly isn't sticking around in its current form, based on comparison with other strike tile users.

I don't think Punisher necessarily ought to be an upgrade over Wolverine in that respect, though. Wolverine's the strike tile specialist, and Patch is the direct "upgrade", assuming you can get over or work with the whole suicide thing. Frank does strike tiles and attack tiles and AoE and poke damage and a unique conditional KO. He doesn't do anything all that well, but he does it all. If you want attack tiles or AoE damage with Wolverines, you need another specialist, like Doom or **Storm.

Unknown

Both 2* Wolv and Thor are going to be nerfed, although 2* Wolv will be seriously declawed compared to Thor.

Thor's nerf probably won't be too bad, outside of a damage reduction and probably AP increases to be similar to Cap America to mitigate chain casting his abilities so frequently.

2* Wolv will be absolutely neutered worse than Ragnarok. His closest comparison is Daken, and he already holds several key advantages over him as is....
-- 2* Wolv can achieve a higher level than Daken, resulting in greater HP and match damage.
-- 2* Wolv has a superior regen, which at max is constant. Daken's regen cannot achieve this, and at worst can actually hurt him if yellow is not present on the board.
-- 2* Wolv has active abilities that enable him to better control the timing of his actions for strategic purposes. Daken's abilities are all passive, which renders him at the mercy of the flow of battle and the board.

If 2* Wolv is allowed to keep these abilities, as they currently exist (even in a reduced form), he will still have a gigantic advantage over Daken. Thus, there goes the "diversity" that the devs want.

He will be absolutely destroyed, and at best, I believe he will be around ~10ish% more powerful than Daken currently in exchange for the higher level cap and ability to control the timing of his claw attacks for AP (which will be expensive). Like Daken's Pheromone Rage, I'm expecting 1 strike tile per cast, 2 at rank 5, for probably about 10-11 Green AP. Otherwise, there is no clear upgrade path to either Punisher or Patch in terms of deploying strike tiles.

Unknown

Lyrian wrote:

Both 2* Wolv and Thor are going to be nerfed, although 2* Wolv will be seriously declawed compared to Thor.

Thor's nerf probably won't be too bad, outside of a damage reduction and probably AP increases to be similar to Cap America to mitigate chain casting his abilities so frequently.

2* Wolv will be absolutely neutered worse than Ragnarok. His closest comparison is Daken, and he already holds several key advantages over him as is....
-- 2* Wolv can achieve a higher level than Daken, resulting in greater HP and match damage.
-- 2* Wolv has a superior regen, which at max is constant. Daken's regen cannot achieve this, and at worst can actually hurt him if yellow is not present on the board.
-- 2* Wolv has active abilities that enable him to better control the timing of his actions for strategic purposes. Daken's abilities are all passive, which renders him at the mercy of the flow of battle and the board.

If 2* Wolv is allowed to keep these abilities, as they currently exist (even in a reduced form), he will still have a gigantic advantage over Daken. Thus, there goes the "diversity" that the devs want.

He will be absolutely destroyed, and at best, I believe he will be around ~10ish% more powerful than Daken currently in exchange for the higher level cap and ability to control the timing of his claw attacks for AP (which will be expensive). Like Daken's Pheromone Rage, I'm expecting 1 strike tile per cast, 2 at rank 5, for probably about 10-11 Green AP. Otherwise, there is no clear upgrade path to either Punisher or Patch in terms of deploying strike tiles.

My thinking on what they will do to Wolvie is make his green cost 6 green ap, deal probably the same base damge, and throw out two red strike tiles with the same strength. It will give him the same amount of strike tile damage, or pretty dang close, to the total of 4 of dakens tiles after two green matches, with the added benefit of doing a baseline damage to make up for it not being a passive. It probably will no longer be reliant on red, as that caused his strike tiles to spawn out of control.