It's not the nerfs! This is why I quit.

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  • puppychow
    puppychow Posts: 1,453
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    Interesting point re: Spiderman. I agree that it's weird to see him in a support/passive role only in the MPQ universe. I would luv to see a 4star version of him w/ some offensive capabilities down the road.
  • I sympathize with the point of the OP in this sense:

    I'm not a lawyer, but generally speaking, intent can be established in a court of law by demonstrating that the consequences of one's actions were predictable. This is based on the principle that "you are responsible for the predictable consequences of your own actions." (and, conversely, you are not responsible for the predictable consequences of someone else's actions).

    The OP has made a good point: It is predictable that 90% of players not on the forum do not know about the upcoming nerfs, and some of them may buy covers in the interim. Not notifying all these players leads to predictable consequences unfavorable (i.e. monetary loss) to those players.

    A good defense lawyer would counter argue its an honest mistake made in good faith or its an oversight (which it most probably is) on part of the developer, or even better, point to some verbiage in the terms of service that renders the developer immune against such claims. But purely as a matter of principle, in my opinion, the OP makes a strong argument.

    P.S. I've commented in several other threads that the option to directly buy covers should be removed from the game.
  • Dartmaster01
    Dartmaster01 Posts: 634 Critical Contributor
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    Vankysher wrote:
    http://venturebeat.com/2014/02/26/only-0-15-of-mobile-gamers-account-for-50-percent-of-all-in-game-revenue-exclusive/

    Stumbled across this interesting article regarding the mobile gaming market and everything I'm rambling about can be viewed as tin-foil hat material.

    While the firm that produced this white paper is selling a service to help these gaming companies maximize their in-app revenue, it is still very interesting to see that whales are an extremely small subset of the most passionate gamers.
    If that is true and if forumites, who could be classified as the most passionate, are only a small percentage of overall users - forumites probably represent the greater proportion of whales.

    Based on this information only a fraction of the casual, non-forum gamer could be classified as whales but the vast majority would probably be F2P and maybe occasionally spend a small amount of real money here and there. The character changes they announce only truly affect us crazy forum dwellers in a disproportionate manner compared to true casuals. The in game announcement, if you note the wording, is primarily to generate interest in the reworked Ragnarok only; it's an ad to try and generate future revenue from that small whale population found in the casuals. The revenue from casuals is probably so irregular that it cannot be counted on except for a spike here and there when a new character comes out.

    That is a very nice piece of info but kinda makes my case for me. D3 has said themselves, many times, that they do not cater to the whale/forum community because we are to small of a percentage of games populous. Now your argument is that they don't cater to casual community because they don't spend enough money. If what you say is true, then I can't conceivably understand who they would be catering to then, other than, their own wallets. And saying that someone doesn't spend as much so we won't look out for them is terrible. Everyone who uses their product is a customer and deserves professional respect from them.
  • Wonko33
    Wonko33 Posts: 985 Critical Contributor
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    They are setting up the Vogon defense: sorry you did not know we were going to destroy the Earth, it had been clearly posted for year in your local center in Alpha Centauri.
  • wirius
    wirius Posts: 667
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    dearbluey wrote:
    I'm not going to try to tell you that you're wrong. I'm just going to suggest that when something triggers you emotionally, you become much more focused on it. The problem becomes bigger, nastier and more prone to be seen as malevolent and intentional. Personal.

    90% of the players (at least) don't read the forums. I'm going to hazard that the reason that 90% of the players don't read the forums is because they are not as emotionally invested in the game as we are. As such, changes are more easily adjusted to and shrugged off. I'll also hazard that (just throwing out random numbers here) 95% of that 90% don't invest much if any money into the game. They probably don't buy covers. They likely don't drop more than a few bucks here and there for a roster slot or two - if even that. The game is just a distraction, something to do, and nerfs and buffs and balances and collecting everyone and getting top 5 every tournament and all that just don't matter to them.

    They know, however, that the forums exist, if they pay attention to any of the pop-ups that link back here. They just don't care to read them because it's not a big thing. They're not invested in the game, financially or emotionally.

    The people here, on the forums, are the passionate ones. The invested ones. Time and money, sure, but absolutely an emotional investment. You could even, if you want to look at it with a cynical eye, see it as a kind of Stockholm Syndrome, but let's face it - the reason why we're here is because we want to be. We're focused on the game. We follow it avidly. We might be fans, or obsessed, or just really really like the game. As such, changes and nerfs and all that affect us much deeper on an emotional level.

    Because this is the internet and easy to vent our thoughts and feelings with a degree of comfortable anonymity, and because every single human being (self included) has a tiny spark of self importance, when something affects us emotionally, we feel well within our rights to spill out every thought and feeling that runs through our heads - often while the emotion is still running hot. This makes us look like fans in the real definition of the word - fanatics. This makes us look hostile. We're not, not really, we're just emotional creatures with a (possibly unhealthy?) attachment to the game and how we play it.

    There's no intent to deceive here though, I'm sorry. The reason? Any player of an online game on a level more than severely casual knows that online games go through changes, adjustments, balances, revamps, improvements, evolutions, nerfs, buffs, whatever words you want to use for it. They know it, and should expect it (especially when they have played the game for more than a month, they can see change happening regularly) and should not be surprised and outraged by it. Since we know that the time, effort (money?) and whatever else we put into our characters can be adjusted, we should not cry foul when it happens.

    It is, of course, okay to feel upset about it. For a little while. Then make some decisions (stay? go? be F2P? whatever) and move on. This is a game. It's a good game. I like this game. I'm emotionally invested in it. I'll get irritated at it sometimes, naturally. But the moment that it makes me furious? I'll walk away then. That moment has not yet come, because I expect these changes to happen and have done so from the moment I picked up the game.

    When people have moved past their anger and made their more reasonably-minded decisions, I hope to see them here still - and in the game as well. If not, well, online gaming is fluid and constantly changing - not just the game itself, but the people who play it. Whatever happens, I hope you all do well with what you decide.

    Regards,
    Bluey


    I don't care that this post is old. Its truth rings out as loudly then as it does now.
  • Dartmaster01
    Dartmaster01 Posts: 634 Critical Contributor
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    wirius wrote:
    dearbluey wrote:
    I'm not going to try to tell you that you're wrong. I'm just going to suggest that when something triggers you emotionally, you become much more focused on it. The problem becomes bigger, nastier and more prone to be seen as malevolent and intentional. Personal.

    90% of the players (at least) don't read the forums. I'm going to hazard that the reason that 90% of the players don't read the forums is because they are not as emotionally invested in the game as we are. As such, changes are more easily adjusted to and shrugged off. I'll also hazard that (just throwing out random numbers here) 95% of that 90% don't invest much if any money into the game. They probably don't buy covers. They likely don't drop more than a few bucks here and there for a roster slot or two - if even that. The game is just a distraction, something to do, and nerfs and buffs and balances and collecting everyone and getting top 5 every tournament and all that just don't matter to them.

    They know, however, that the forums exist, if they pay attention to any of the pop-ups that link back here. They just don't care to read them because it's not a big thing. They're not invested in the game, financially or emotionally.

    The people here, on the forums, are the passionate ones. The invested ones. Time and money, sure, but absolutely an emotional investment. You could even, if you want to look at it with a cynical eye, see it as a kind of Stockholm Syndrome, but let's face it - the reason why we're here is because we want to be. We're focused on the game. We follow it avidly. We might be fans, or obsessed, or just really really like the game. As such, changes and nerfs and all that affect us much deeper on an emotional level.

    Because this is the internet and easy to vent our thoughts and feelings with a degree of comfortable anonymity, and because every single human being (self included) has a tiny spark of self importance, when something affects us emotionally, we feel well within our rights to spill out every thought and feeling that runs through our heads - often while the emotion is still running hot. This makes us look like fans in the real definition of the word - fanatics. This makes us look hostile. We're not, not really, we're just emotional creatures with a (possibly unhealthy?) attachment to the game and how we play it.

    There's no intent to deceive here though, I'm sorry. The reason? Any player of an online game on a level more than severely casual knows that online games go through changes, adjustments, balances, revamps, improvements, evolutions, nerfs, buffs, whatever words you want to use for it. They know it, and should expect it (especially when they have played the game for more than a month, they can see change happening regularly) and should not be surprised and outraged by it. Since we know that the time, effort (money?) and whatever else we put into our characters can be adjusted, we should not cry foul when it happens.

    It is, of course, okay to feel upset about it. For a little while. Then make some decisions (stay? go? be F2P? whatever) and move on. This is a game. It's a good game. I like this game. I'm emotionally invested in it. I'll get irritated at it sometimes, naturally. But the moment that it makes me furious? I'll walk away then. That moment has not yet come, because I expect these changes to happen and have done so from the moment I picked up the game.

    When people have moved past their anger and made their more reasonably-minded decisions, I hope to see them here still - and in the game as well. If not, well, online gaming is fluid and constantly changing - not just the game itself, but the people who play it. Whatever happens, I hope you all do well with what you decide.

    Regards,
    Bluey


    I don't care that this post is old. Its truth rings out as loudly then as it does now.

    I agree with him also but you're both missing the point.
  • Dartmaster01
    Dartmaster01 Posts: 634 Critical Contributor
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    Maybe people will listen to someone they consider reasonable. Since fightforthedream made the same request, I'm going to bump this once in the hopes devs will understand why this needs to done.
  • ronin_san
    ronin_san Posts: 980 Critical Contributor
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    puppychow wrote:
    Interesting point re: Spiderman. I agree that it's weird to see him in a support/passive role only in the MPQ universe. I would luv to see a 4star version of him w/ some offensive capabilities down the road.


    How about a honest-to-goodness Spider-Man Rework in the 3* realm that actually resembles the character? Ditch the heal. Give him a web sling that takes x yellow but does does dmg per team-up destroyed. Spider-man demonstrates a clear and continuous ability to web nearby objects and sling them at the enemy, eg sewer lids, hydrants, cars, lamp posts, etc.

    If you but do that and give his blue a modest damage component. BAM. Instant improvement. Suddenly everyone is using Spidey again.
  • Vankysher
    Vankysher Posts: 324 Mover and Shaker
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    Vankysher wrote:
    http://venturebeat.com/2014/02/26/only-0-15-of-mobile-gamers-account-for-50-percent-of-all-in-game-revenue-exclusive/

    Stumbled across this interesting article regarding the mobile gaming market and everything I'm rambling about can be viewed as tin-foil hat material.

    While the firm that produced this white paper is selling a service to help these gaming companies maximize their in-app revenue, it is still very interesting to see that whales are an extremely small subset of the most passionate gamers.
    If that is true and if forumites, who could be classified as the most passionate, are only a small percentage of overall users - forumites probably represent the greater proportion of whales.

    Based on this information only a fraction of the casual, non-forum gamer could be classified as whales but the vast majority would probably be F2P and maybe occasionally spend a small amount of real money here and there. The character changes they announce only truly affect us crazy forum dwellers in a disproportionate manner compared to true casuals. The in game announcement, if you note the wording, is primarily to generate interest in the reworked Ragnarok only; it's an ad to try and generate future revenue from that small whale population found in the casuals. The revenue from casuals is probably so irregular that it cannot be counted on except for a spike here and there when a new character comes out.

    That is a very nice piece of info but kinda makes my case for me. D3 has said themselves, many times, that they do not cater to the whale/forum community because we are to small of a percentage of games populous. Now your argument is that they don't cater to casual community because they don't spend enough money. If what you say is true, then I can't conceivably understand who they would be catering to then, other than, their own wallets. And saying that someone doesn't spend as much so we won't look out for them is terrible. Everyone who uses their product is a customer and deserves professional respect from them.

    Well my post was probably more of an incomplete thought as I took out a large chunk of my post prior to finally posting as I tend to dislike wading into too many deep issues. I think that D3/Demiurge try to cater to both but with their limited resources they wind up doing a relatively poor job on both and the only visible end result is making the hardcore community upset. What may get lost is the fact that what constitutes as "fun" by forumites, most likely mirrors what casuals consider "fun." Do I like overpowered combos? Yes and I bet dollars to donuts that casuals equally love to stomp on those ridiculously scaled nodes too. Issues brought up and if addressed also help casuals even though they may not be able to verbalize or care to verbalize what they like and don't like about this game; all they know and care about is that it's "fun."

    I suppose my overall point is that they have a difficult balancing act since whales keep them employed but the larger casual population are equally needed to keep the whales engaged. The changes may be for the good of the game but the manner in which they're presented is like an edict from-on-high and us plebs just better get used to it and further buttresses your point that they need to respect the customer. They are reticent to really engage the community for whatever reasons which may be good and valid but if they keep chasing away - deliberately or not - their largest revenue source, as the article indicates they will only see it in hindsight when it is too late.