Token "crafting"

DaveR4470

Just throwing out an idea: It would be interesting to be able to "craft" a heroic token, say, or even an event token out of a given number of standard tokens. Say, 20 standard = 1 heroic.

Of course that means you're effectively putting in a way to buy heroic tokens for ISO.... but maybe that's a good thing. And I'm sure there could be a balance there somewhere.

hesjingixen

A really cool idea would be some way to do that with covers as well. Maybe something like, combine 5 red 2* covers to get a random red 3* cover or something similar.

Arondite

DaveR4470 wrote:

Just throwing out an idea: It would be interesting to be able to "craft" a heroic token, say, or even an event token out of a given number of standard tokens. Say, 20 standard = 1 heroic.

Of course that means you're effectively putting in a way to buy heroic tokens for ISO.... but maybe that's a good thing. And I'm sure there could be a balance there somewhere.

20 to 1 is way bad. I'd do 20 = 1 3Star Recruit token though, as that's closer to the ratio.

FaustianDeal

if I check the token probability matrix that MischiefMaker has been tracking it looks like roughly 5/6 of standard token pulls are 1* characters. 20-1 might seem like a terrible, but anything that gets even remotely close to 6-1 is getting way too close to the *actual* value of the drops. Most conversions of this type require that you pay some kind of premium, so we have to pin the conversion somewhere worse than 6-1 or they will be losing out in the deal. (The relative prices of the tokens also seems consistent with a 6-1 )

I might go with 10-1.

Creating a 'Legendary' token that was only 3* and 4* characters would be awesome.
Creating a 'Cosmic' token that was only 4* characters, also awesome.

What do you price those tokens? When we used to have 'good' Lightning Round tokens (guaranteed 3* villian) those tokens priced @1100. You can't really price the "3* or better" token higher than the price of buying a cover for a 3* character outright, can you? So something < 1250 seems required. Same way you probably can't ask > 2500 for a "4* only" token...

Maybe you skip the question of pricing these tokens and make them 'craftable' only - and not available for individual sale.

In addition to crafting you could argue that these upgraded tokens could potentially be added as progression/placement prizes to events.

dizzera

While it's a great idea, it would lessen the people paying money for hero points. Therefore, it won't happen.

Free to play, pay to win. That's how it goes.

Unknown

Wow. You just... did not think this through. At all.

So you want to trade in 20 Standard tokens, which guarantee a minimum return 2000 ISO for the sold covers should they fail to produce a 2-3 star, thus ensuring the purchase of 4 MORE standard covers, so you can have... what? A single gamble that also has high potential of failing that only returns 250 ISO?

Furthermore, have you ever burned through 20 packs back to back without getting at least one 2 star, if not SEVERAL? That said, Heroics have about a 1 in 5 chance to give a 3 star or better. Can you honestly envision going through a HUNDRED Standard recruit draws without a single 3 star pull, which still leaves you with well over 10000+ ISO in return should you fail versus the 1250 for 5 heroic tokens?

I say this from experience. I sit on 100k Iso fairly often. All my 1 and 2 star characters are maxed. Every single available character in those tiers, is max level on my end. The only forward for me is getting 3* covers and roster slots. How do I do that when not competing in events? I go all in. I start buying Standards with Iso and do not stop until I get a single golden draw. When I do, I sell my losses and and wait to build back up again. I have never even gotten close to reducing myself under 50k ISO in this fashion. I have quite honestly sold more 3 star covers than I care to admit, but it works. It's expensive, but I can in fact convert Iso into the equivalent of a Rare token draw. Even if each individual 3 star had a 0.1% chance to be drawn from those tokens, there's still over twenty 3 star and up covers to be had in a given season, so we're looking at 2% there, all told. Is 1 in 50 not enough for a hundred draws?

Just stick with what's already available in the game. Do the Deadpool Dailies for ISO, particpate in as many Lightning Rounds as you can (weak early teams are pretty much free ISO/covers right there), and more than anything, just be patient. Proposing a 'crafting' system to turn weak RNG into medium RNG is just betting more money and taking a bigger punch to the face if it doesn't land on what you want it to. Can you really imagine collecting 20 individual standard tokens, trading them in and drawing a Bag Man(/250 ISO)? It's the difference between pulling the lever on a slot machine for a quarter per pull, and betting $50 a hand on Blackjack. The former might have the same chance of letting you win big as the latter, but at least you get the tiny wins in between to give you more pulls.

DaveR4470

Alterationa wrote:

Wow. You just... did not think this through. At all.

So you want to trade in 20 Standard tokens, which guarantee a minimum return 2000 ISO for the sold covers should they fail to produce a 2-3 star, thus ensuring the purchase of 4 MORE standard covers, so you can have... what? A single gamble that also has high potential of failing that only returns 250 ISO?

Furthermore, have you ever burned through 20 packs back to back without getting at least one 2 star, if not SEVERAL? That said, Heroics have about a 1 in 5 chance to give a 3 star or better. Can you honestly envision going through a HUNDRED Standard recruit draws without a single 3 star pull, which still leaves you with well over 10000+ ISO in return should you fail versus the 1250 for 5 heroic tokens?

I say this from experience. I sit on 100k Iso fairly often. All my 1 and 2 star characters are maxed. Every single available character in those tiers, is max level on my end. The only forward for me is getting 3* covers and roster slots. How do I do that when not competing in events? I go all in. I start buying Standards with Iso and do not stop until I get a single golden draw. When I do, I sell my losses and and wait to build back up again. I have never even gotten close to reducing myself under 50k ISO in this fashion. I have quite honestly sold more 3 star covers than I care to admit, but it works. It's expensive, but I can in fact convert Iso into the equivalent of a Rare token draw. Even if each individual 3 star had a 0.1% chance to be drawn from those tokens, there's still over twenty 3 star and up covers to be had in a given season, so we're looking at 2% there, all told. Is 1 in 50 not enough for a hundred draws?

Just stick with what's already available in the game. Do the Deadpool Dailies for ISO, particpate in as many Lightning Rounds as you can (weak early teams are pretty much free ISO/covers right there), and more than anything, just be patient. Proposing a 'crafting' system to turn weak RNG into medium RNG is just betting more money and taking a bigger punch to the face if it doesn't land on what you want it to. Can you really imagine collecting 20 individual standard tokens, trading them in and drawing a Bag Man(/250 ISO)? It's the difference between pulling the lever on a slot machine for a quarter per pull, and betting $50 a hand on Blackjack. The former might have the same chance of letting you win big as the latter, but at least you get the tiny wins in between to give you more pulls.

It's not something you would do. Therefore, you decide how everyone else gets to play the game. Gotcha.

Unknown

DaveR4470 wrote:

Alterationa wrote:

Wow. You just... did not think this through. At all.

So you want to trade in 20 Standard tokens, which guarantee a minimum return 2000 ISO for the sold covers should they fail to produce a 2-3 star, thus ensuring the purchase of 4 MORE standard covers, so you can have... what? A single gamble that also has high potential of failing that only returns 250 ISO?

Furthermore, have you ever burned through 20 packs back to back without getting at least one 2 star, if not SEVERAL? That said, Heroics have about a 1 in 5 chance to give a 3 star or better. Can you honestly envision going through a HUNDRED Standard recruit draws without a single 3 star pull, which still leaves you with well over 10000+ ISO in return should you fail versus the 1250 for 5 heroic tokens?

I say this from experience. I sit on 100k Iso fairly often. All my 1 and 2 star characters are maxed. Every single available character in those tiers, is max level on my end. The only forward for me is getting 3* covers and roster slots. How do I do that when not competing in events? I go all in. I start buying Standards with Iso and do not stop until I get a single golden draw. When I do, I sell my losses and and wait to build back up again. I have never even gotten close to reducing myself under 50k ISO in this fashion. I have quite honestly sold more 3 star covers than I care to admit, but it works. It's expensive, but I can in fact convert Iso into the equivalent of a Rare token draw. Even if each individual 3 star had a 0.1% chance to be drawn from those tokens, there's still over twenty 3 star and up covers to be had in a given season, so we're looking at 2% there, all told. Is 1 in 50 not enough for a hundred draws?

Just stick with what's already available in the game. Do the Deadpool Dailies for ISO, particpate in as many Lightning Rounds as you can (weak early teams are pretty much free ISO/covers right there), and more than anything, just be patient. Proposing a 'crafting' system to turn weak RNG into medium RNG is just betting more money and taking a bigger punch to the face if it doesn't land on what you want it to. Can you really imagine collecting 20 individual standard tokens, trading them in and drawing a Bag Man(/250 ISO)? It's the difference between pulling the lever on a slot machine for a quarter per pull, and betting $50 a hand on Blackjack. The former might have the same chance of letting you win big as the latter, but at least you get the tiny wins in between to give you more pulls.

It's not something you would do. Therefore, you decide how everyone else gets to play the game. Gotcha.

I'm saying you're quite literally proposing a worse system than the one that already exists.

When I see:
"Of course that means you're effectively putting in a way to buy heroic tokens for ISO.... but maybe that's a good thing"

I hear:
"Why can't we buy Heroic tokens with ISO already? We should be able to buy Heroic tokens with ISO."

You don't seem to grasp that at its core, mass buying Standard tokens has pretty much equivalent odds to the 20 to 1 conversion you're proposing for one Heroic token, if not better. I'm not telling you how to play the game, I'm telling you that there's already a better way of going about things, but if you want to ignore that instead of rebutting with WHY you think your system is better, then you're only creating your own frustration.

I have detailed why playing it safe on a bunch of tiny bets usually wins out against fewer large bets. So now you tell me. What is the tangible benefit over what exists now?

It's not odds
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =558559716
(the spreadsheet estimated OVER 2.8% for 3 stars, 4 stars, and 25 HP draws)
2.8% * 20 SRT > 16.6% * 1 HRT

It's not failure returns
2000+ ISO (20 SRT) > 250 (HRT)

So why token crafting? Tell me why your way is better?

DaveR4470

No, I'm just going to keep on ignoring you, because you're obnoxious and rude.

Unknown

So two downvotes on my comments and no explanation to prove me wrong. Sounds like someone had their feels hurt by cold, hard logic.

IamTheDanger

I'm going to go ahead and lock this up before it gets out of hand. Please try to be polite to each other on here.