Are Complex Powers Better?

konannfriends

Noticing That a lot of new Characters who have rules and regulations on there powers seem more Overpowered than the rest of the Cast.

And With Iron fist it seems proven to be True.

konannfriends wrote:

Emma Frost. Health 6800

Diamond Form ( Passive )
When the team makes a team up match Emma ShapeShifts into her Solid Diamond Form to protect the team and assault the enemy. Creates one Blue Protect and Purple Purple Strike tile both with strength 34. when matching team up again she reverts to her natural state and special tile are destroyed ( Cannot use other Powers in diamond state )
Level 2: Protect and Strike Tiles strength increased to 78.
Level 3: Protect and Strike Tiles strength increased to 104
Level 4: Can Shapeshift and revert when the Team matches Black
Level 5: Can ShapeShift and revert when the Team Matches Red

Max Level: Protect and Strike Tile strength 314

Mind Control ( 11ap )
Emma uses her immense telepathic powers to knock the enemy team unconscious. Stuns the enemy team for 1 turn
Level 2: Cost 1 less ap
Level 3: Stuns the enemy team for 2 turns
Level 4: Cost 1 less ap
Level 5: Cost 1 less ap

Couldn't think of one... if someone has an idea that would be nice if you could fill in the blank. I don't know if she would have damage since her yellow would work nicely

Edit: switched Some power colors since blue usually stuns and yellow deals with team up tiles

When I originally made this post I was sure that this wouldn't be possible but looking at Characters like Lady THOR, Iron fist, Cyclops. Arguably Blade. It seems Complex is the way to go. And I like that they are thinking outside the box with New characters

Trisul

Complex powers CAN be fun and powerful. Evidence: Surgical Strike
Complex powers can also be terrible. Evidence: Mutagenic Breakthrough, Armed And Dangerous
Simple powers can also be fun and powerful. Evidence: Speed Shot, Whales

In conclusion, I prefer interesting and satisfying powers regardless of their level of complexity.

(Rage of the Panther still feels really good.)

konannfriends

Trisul wrote:

Complex powers CAN be fun and powerful. Evidence: Surgical Strike
Complex powers can also be terrible. Evidence: Mutagenic Breakthrough, Armed And Dangerous
Simple powers can also be fun and powerful. Evidence: Speed Shot, Whales

In conclusion, I prefer interesting and satisfying powers regardless of their level of complexity.

(Rage of the Panther still feels really good.)

Who has armed and dangerous?

Unknown

Ock does its the one that does aoe damage, reduces ap, stuns someone, and destroys a countdown timer and still somehow seems to be underwhelming.

rixmith

For me, powers that require strategic thinking are more fun. Doom's Diabolical Plot is a great example. Just because I have 10 Purple AP doesn't mean I should use it. Instead I have to balance how many purple traps are on the board, how many untrapped purples there are, what the likelihood of them being matched by my opponent are, whether I am trying to fill up purple so I can use a Berserker Rage without giving many strike tiles to my opponent, how much health my enemies have and how close they are to using a ability.

Flame Jet is another power I really like. Since I can't place it, I don't want to cast it when there is an obvious green match on the board. Or maybe it is worth taking the risk if there are enough other matches out there for the AI and the damage could be crucial. Or should I wait until I get one more green match...

Ares green is another one that is fun to play, deciding whether it is the right time to use it or to wait for one more green match.

I think these slightly more complex abilities bring a lot to the game.

Unknown

Complex powers have more room to screw up. If you made an abilty like: "10 red, deals X damage", it's pretty hard to screw this up unless you're purposely trying to sell a P2W character. But if it's Smite, then it is possibly overpowered because of situations you did not forseen. There are complex powers that way overshoot on either end of the spectrum though it's not like people care about a complex power that's unexpectedly weak. This also goes with conditional power, like for example when Rage of the Panther did about 25% more damage in an environment where 6800 HP was likely the max HP so it usually just killed everyone on the opposing team, but hey it's got a drawback of giving enemy 5 AP of their strongest color after they're all downed!

There's a reason why Luke Cage is a strong but no one will consider him overpowered because what he does is very, very simple, so it's almost impossible to screw this up. I wonder if when they designed something like Surgical Strike they actually thought people will be too stupid to figure out what the 'strongest color' is.

I don't think Diabolical Plot is a good example of a good complex power. I think it's something that's balanced by pure accident because based on the game's history I cannot fathom that this ability was made while simulating all the likely board states such that it ends up doing a fairly reasonable amount of damage. If the game went through this kind of rigorous testing we wouldn't have X Force in the first place. Now it does turn out Diabolical Plot is a well made power, but I don't think this is duplicable.

Mawtful

I think at this stage, I'm just echoing what everyone else has already said; some complex powers are great, some are bad.

It's all very subjective though, isn't it? I like interesting powers. I really like powers which gain cool/interesting/different effects as you rank them up past rank 3. I'd really like to see more characters with 3 abilities that all get more interesting at both the 4th and 5th ranks, so that we really have to think about how to specialise them.

OBW has 3 interesting powers. I've used just about every possible combination at least once, and her powers can be tailored to suit different style of play or different teammates. (And yes, 3/5/5 is the best "overall" build, but if you've never used Rank 5 Recon to steal purple from an opposing OBW then you've never lived - it's like Moonstone stealing a Recovery countdown.)

konannfriends

Mawtful wrote:

I think at this stage, I'm just echoing what everyone else has already said; some complex powers are great, some are bad.

It's all very subjective though, isn't it? I like interesting powers. I really like powers which gain cool/interesting/different effects as you rank them up past rank 3. I'd really like to see more characters with 3 abilities that all get more interesting at both the 4th and 5th ranks, so that we really have to think about how to specialise them.

OBW has 3 interesting powers. I've used just about every possible combination at least once, and her powers can be tailored to suit different style of play or different teammates. (And yes, 3/5/5 is the best "overall" build, but if you've never used Rank 5 Recon to steal purple from an opposing OBW then you've never lived - it's like Moonstone stealing a Recovery countdown.)

Yeah OBW will forever be the Mpq Godess.

And I do like when the 5th and Thu power give extra effects so your build can tweak the characters playstyle

I'm too lazy to come up with an example

Mawtful

Blade has 3 interesting powers, Daredevil has 2 (red and blue).

X Force has 1 interesting power (Surgical Strike). His Green gets some big jumps in numbers, to the point that it makes more sense to guarantee a kill than to maybe heal in 3 turns. If Recover gained a neat trick at rank 5, like after reaching 0 the countdown refreshes, then maybe you'd see some variation in builds. Maybe.

ClydeFrog76

My fave power in a lonnnnnnnnnnng time is Full Blast, for one simple reason...that sicka$$ animation!

Unknown

And I like that they are thinking outside the box with New characters

They seem to be trying to give nearly every power in the game at least a slight quirk (to the point where Devil Dinosaur having two identical and straightforward damage attacks is part of him being a gag character), which inevitably leads towards complexity as more characters are introduced.

Unknown

The main goal is for an ability to feel good when using it.

Patch's green is great in theory, but it doesn't feel good to use it. It feels like you're about to come into a lot of pain.

Same with Sentry's red. You read it and it sounds like it would be satisfying, but once you cast it, it leaves you feeling cheated out of a turn and health.
In fact all of Sentry's abilities are somewhat taxing on your enjoyment. I remember when Sentry bombing was in vogue. It was great getting to 1300 every PVP, but it really took something out of you each game you had to do it. Protecting that freaking strike tile, making sure everything went off without a hitch. Ugh.

Surgical Strike, on the other hand, sounds great and feels incredible to use.

To me it has less to do with the complexity of the power and more to do with how it feels to use it.

You could give me an incredibly powerful and incredibly complex power. But if it feels like I need to hold back with it or if it feels like I was cheated in some way, I won't enjoy using it.

jobob

Complex powers have two potential problems (I'll get to that later)... But personally, I like the complex powers, because it's the way to really build synergy with a team, and encourage creativity.

My ideal version of the game is one where you plan your team based on opponents, rather than just build 3 good players, and every character has a role to fill. A (relatively) simple power like Surgical Strike has enough of a quirk that it can change who you bring along with XF based on what the enemy's strongest color is. Or if you see a team that doesn't have a red user, take Blade along, leave the red user at home for you, and strike up the board. Things like that are fun to me.

...But I have two big problems with complex powers... both centered around the way PVP works. In upper level PVP, you will really get punished if you are too slow going through a match, so adjusting your team each round, planning out intricate strategies... just doesn't fit well with the meta game. The second (and bigger issue IMO) is that the more complex a power, the more complex the AI has to be to use it correctly. So you may come up with a killer synergy team, but it gets destroyed any time it's on defense because of the AI use of powers. Fury blue & purple, XF green & (mostly) black... those are damn near impossible for the AI to screw up. Anything that requires tile placement... the AI totally wastes.