Cyclops reward mistake

mjh · 2015 20

was the t10 reward for the ISO-8 Brotherhood PVE, OK fine, no problem. Now they are offering it again as the rarest and hardest to get reward at t5 in Lethal Intent PVP.

The top and rarest reward in PVE for new characters has always been rotated to t25 or lower, this was always done in the past, why are you, D3, not doing it now? This must be an oversight.

It's not too late to fix this. I have seen D3 change rewards in the past, like when they accidentally had 4

as Season reward when it should have been

. They corrected that mistake, I hope they fix this one as well.

Dartmaster01 · 2015 20

They have claimed that cover rewards are supposed to rotate. And they jusy fixed Enemy of the State rewards, so it does seem to be possible if it's a mistake.

Unknown · 2015 20

Hey guys, I know this isn't going to be a popular answer, but the rewards for Lethal Intent are not a mistake. We use a random number generator when determining the order of covers for PVE and PVP rewards to ensure there's no favoritism for particular covers. As such any given cover has a 1/3 chance of being the top cover, and a 1/9 chance of being the top cover twice in a row. It hasn't happened in a while, but it does happen.

Flare808 · 2015 20

It's actually a 1/9 chance that both top covers will be red, but a 1/3 chance that the introductory PvE and initial PvP will share the same cover as the top reward. (RR, YY, BB)

(double cover as top reward-this situation)

(double cover as top reward)

(double cover as top reward)

Edited for clarity

Unknown · 2015 20

Rather than a random number generator, why not just... y'know... rotate them? That removes any favouritism entirely.

brisashi · 2015 20

Wouldn't rotating them in order prevent favoritism?

Dragon_Nexus · 2015 20

I always thought it was rotated. So if a character came out with yellow, blue and red abilities the first PvE would be 150th red, 50th red and yellow, 10th all three.
Then the next event would be blue as a progression since it was the hardest to get, or possibly a yellow since it was in the middle.
Then the PvP would flip it around to make the hardest to get in the PvE the easiest to get now, so top 100 would get blue, then red then whatever was the progression reward last.

Makes sense to me, since then you'd end up with a balance if you played well enough.

simonsez · 2015 20

Statistically speaking, by not sticking to a set rotation, you guys are introducing accidental favoritism because of the high variability associated with small sample sizes. Sure, in the long run things smooth out, but no one is going to care that after 100 events things look pretty balanced.

Unknown · 2015 20

it would be really easy to not have it random and just rotate which would basically mean you're definitely not favoring one color

Wouldn't that make a lot more sense? Or do you think people would complain that the color they want was third in the rotation instead of the color they wanted is always hardest to get?

CrookedKnight · 2015 20

Yeah, if you're worried about preventing favoritism, using a purely random approach isn't the best way to do it, because it will occasionally end up giving out the same covers in the same order -- a situation that has the exact same practical result as human favoritism.

I appreciate the goal, but why use a roll of the dice when you could instead employ a fixed or semi-random rotation -- randomly decide which cover goes where, but re-roll if the same cover ends up in the same position twice in a row -- to ensure that all covers are given out in equal proportions? I mean, it's good that you don't want human bias involved in the distribution of covers, but the reason that's bad, from a gameplay standpoint, is because it would lead to people getting a bunch of one cover and very little of another, effectively forcing a certain build on the players who can't achieve Top 5/10 placement - so surely that result is just as bad when the RNG does it?

Unknown · 2015 20

I'm guessing the 1/6 was meant to be that the ordering of the 3 covers happens to be the same for both PVP and PVE 1/6th of the time?
Are the PVP rewards also

or

?

For more people, the bottom color matters more than the top color.

MojoWild · 2015 20

I have to agree, it's not a popular answer...

Dartmaster01 · 2015 20

I've heard it mentioned by devs that they are rotated in the past, RNG will never give an even spread. Seems counter productive to the reasoning behind it and what happens when the same number pops up several times in a row, looks like favortism, oh wait?! (Yay! I get to interobang)

Unknown · 2015 20

Exsqueezeme. I understand wanting arbitrary, but arbitrary for the sake of arbitrary is just as bad as playing favorites. In the future, I hope Y'all use a little more common sense.

First pve, all three arbitrary. Then just rotate. That's not favoritism, that's fairness, to everyone. Each color cover will be each rewards tier the same number of times to infinite.

Tl; dr: if goal is fairness, than absolute arbitrary is counter productive.

Also, Y'all are tech ppl, should know there is no such thing as pure randomness from a rng.

simonsez · 2015 20

Actually, that's not the problem. With pure randomness, you can and will (at some point) get the same cover as top tier 5 times in a row. I can't imagine any reason why someone on the dev team would think this is a good thing.

scottee · 2015 20

I wonder if he meant that when introducing a new character, the use a RNG for the first PVE, and then in the next PVE it rotates. And then an RNG for the first PVP, which rotates in subsequent PVP's.

Unknown · 2015 20

This is, I hate to say it, a really bad idea. You should use a random number generator to determine it initially, and then make a point of rotating them afterwards. The distribution has been terrible lately, with some covers given out a ton, and some barely given out at all, and this policy explains it. You need to stop doing this, because it was a terrible idea to begin with.

FierceKiwi · 2015 20

We've already seen that doesn't happen the last 2 times Hulk was a PvP reward Black was the double (of course no one complained then because Black is the desired cover).

EDIT: Added quote...of course the one time I expect the forums to tell me someone else has posted before me screwing up the order it doesn't.

scottee · 2015 20

Makes sense. I don't follow the 3* cover rotations.

The odd thing is though, the 4* covers rotate perfectly.

john1620b · 2015 20

I agree, this makes more sense. Any comment, David?

mjh · 2015 20

Wow. Just wow.

D3 does something amazing, Deadpool Daily Quest.

But it's awesomeness is shadowed by the fact of how covers are rewarded (or not rewarded).

RNG in itself is not a bad idea to start with, as previously mentioned. But after the first RNG it should rotate on a set schedule. I really have to question product management here.

Cyclops reward mistake

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