Any word on when scaling might stop punishing you?

hesjingixen

I know I'm far from the first person to bring it up, but the way this game punishes you for having a diverse roster is pretty ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I understand that Gauntlet is supposed to be hard, but I'm 2 nodes from the end of the SECOND gauntlet, and everyone is 214 or higher. I don't have a single character above 167, but I have lots at 166, so thanks to terrible scaling, my odds at finishing the 3rd gauntlet are nearly impossible.

This really feels like the most important issue for them to address, seeing as the want us to spend the money to get all the things, but then they punish us for getting all the things......and yet I've never heard them address a possible fix. Has anyone?

JamieMadrox

Theoretically if you lose your scaling will go down. Also, if you boost you might find it easier.

Spoit

Jamie Madrox wrote:

Theoretically if you lose your scaling will go down. Also, if you boost you might find it easier.

Of course, if you find it easier, that will just drive the scaling back up

(though boosts themselves don't raise scaling, being able to win easily without taking a lot of damage DOES)

Unknown

hesjingixen wrote:

I know I'm far from the first person to bring it up, but the way this game punishes you for having a diverse roster is pretty ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I understand that Gauntlet is supposed to be hard, but I'm 2 nodes from the end of the SECOND gauntlet, and everyone is 214 or higher. I don't have a single character above 167, but I have lots at 166, so thanks to terrible scaling, my odds at finishing the 3rd gauntlet are nearly impossible.

This really feels like the most important issue for them to address, seeing as the want us to spend the money to get all the things, but then they punish us for getting all the things......and yet I've never heard them address a possible fix. Has anyone?

The problem is that I have around 280-290 for those guys and I can easily say you had it easy and I am the victim. Or maybe we're both victims here, or maybe neither.

The scaling pretty much screws people on an arbitarily basis, and since no one is really sure who gets screwed, even if you're not screwed, it might look like you are because you don't know other people have it even worse than you. Thus this guaranteeds the maximum amount of second guessing and anger when everyone can believe they're the worst victim of scaling in the game!

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

Jamie Madrox wrote:

Theoretically if you lose your scaling will go down. Also, if you boost you might find it easier.

Of course, if you find it easier, that will just drive the scaling back up

(though boosts themselves don't raise scaling, being able to win easily without taking a lot of damage DOES)

I always found that taking at least 1000 total damage is more than enough to avoid any triggers for 'didn't take damage' even when that was around, and I'm not sure that check is still around. 1000 damage is 5 match 3s from a level 166 opponent. Unless you're running AP+3 all boosts I don't see how you can reliably win games without taking 5 match 3s, and if you're using AP+3 all boosts, you might as well use/save them for PvP instead. Iso 8 boosts are generally insufficient for a sub turn 5 win and I guess if you just got an awesome opening, you can either just take your chances or purposely get hit a few more times to be safe.

Arctic_One

I cant say I am completely proficient in the scaling equations but, I don't believe that losing 50% of the time should make me get harder opponents. Or is that the intent of the DEVs, for there to be a 50/50 chance of winning?
PvP has become almost pointless for me (a 2*-3* transitional player) because between losing half the games I do play and the added losses in games i don't play (attacks), i can barely reach 400 points after near non-stop play for 6 hours. Typical results for me in PvP are to reach 400 for the HP and then only play if there is no PvE to play. By tournaments end I'm around 300 points, only benefit being in the iso8 I collect. Therefore to me, PvP is where I farm iso8, in order to play PvE.
For me, this has not been random, it is consistent. Every game, the AI makes cascades at the most opportune time to either win or at least deplete my team to where I need to use 2 or 3 health's. This is true regardless of whether my team is heavily favored over, relatively equal to or out-gunned by my opponents.
I'm not ranting, quitting, getting angry or such. I am just stating the facts. I would enjoy the game a lot more if losing weren't such commonplace.
Let me get more rewards through winning.
I know it was easier to gets wins in the past and, maybe it will get easier as my team becomes a stronger 3* roster. Maybe its just due to the transitioning stage I'm at now.

fmftint

hesjingixen wrote:

I know I'm far from the first person to bring it up, but the way this game punishes you for having a diverse roster is pretty ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I understand that Gauntlet is supposed to be hard, but I'm 2 nodes from the end of the SECOND gauntlet, and everyone is 214 or higher. I don't have a single character above 167, but I have lots at 166, so thanks to terrible scaling, my odds at finishing the 3rd gauntlet are nearly impossible.

This really feels like the most important issue for them to address, seeing as the want us to spend the money to get all the things, but then they punish us for getting all the things......and yet I've never heard them address a possible fix. Has anyone?

What are your featured characters boosted to? It matters, DD gets 90 levels this event which will kill you If he is maxed

brisashi

I get that they want to keep the game challenging, but punishing players for progressing while at the same time encouraging them to progress is not very fun.

hesjingixen

brisashi wrote:

I get that they want to keep the game challenging, but punishing players for progressing while at the same time encouraging them to progress is not very fun.

This. What's the point of progressing if all you get is punished harder? I understand SOME scaling, or else new players wouldn't have any hope against veterans, but it's really disheartening to see people ahead of me in PvE that are still in 2* land, and I can't compete because I have a bigger roster.

Unknown

Jamie Madrox wrote:

Theoretically if you lose your scaling will go down. Also, if you boost you might find it easier.

This is not true in Gauntlet, which doesn't actually have scaling.

There are 3 different things that affect a nodes level, all of which get misrepresented by the term "scaling" on these boards pretty frequently.

1) Baseline: The starting difficulty of your nodes. This is based on roster strength. (And is the only thing affecting Gauntlet in any way, according to the Devs.)

2) Personal Scaling: How badly you beat nodes. If you go in with 100% health and come out with 99% health, clearly the node is too easy for you. If you go in with 100% and come out with 0% (loss) then maybe the node is too hard.

3) Community Scaling: Some kinda formula based on the personal scaling of everyone in the bracket.

It's been stated that your roster has nothing to do with 2) or 3), only win percents. The Gauntlet sets all the nodes difficulty when you enter using the baseline difficulty formula, and then doesn't move from there. It's a personal Everest for each individual roster to climb.

Unknown

hesjingixen wrote:

brisashi wrote:

I get that they want to keep the game challenging, but punishing players for progressing while at the same time encouraging them to progress is not very fun.

This. What's the point of progressing if all you get is punished harder? I understand SOME scaling, or else new players wouldn't have any hope against veterans, but it's really disheartening to see people ahead of me in PvE that are still in 2* land, and I can't compete because I have a bigger roster.

If this is your problem then it's time to move over to PvP. 2* rosters get trounced in there.

Unknown

The Gauntlet definitely has a component for winning at all. If you write down the level of the first node and check on it again after you beat the whole bracket it's a lot higher (minus the first bracket which is fixed). It's not really meaningful because the Gauntlet is pretty much one way so it's not like you have some alternative way of reaching the end, though on the final bracket this means for high scaling players you want to do the first essential branch first because everything after about the halfway point is going to be 395s so they can't possibly go any higher, but if you went toward the end first then the first essential branch would be close to 395 from all the nodes you beat when you do come back to it. For people who don't have scaling quite that high it's a judgment call because whatever nodes you do last is always going to be higher if it won't hit 395.

JamieMadrox

Lerysh wrote:

Jamie Madrox wrote:

Theoretically if you lose your scaling will go down. Also, if you boost you might find it easier.

This is not true in Gauntlet, which doesn't actually have scaling.

Right I forgot about that. In which case my second statement holds true. Boost my child. Boost like a tinykitty.

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

Jamie Madrox wrote:

Theoretically if you lose your scaling will go down. Also, if you boost you might find it easier.

This is not true in Gauntlet, which doesn't actually have scaling.

There are 3 different things that affect a nodes level, all of which get misrepresented by the term "scaling" on these boards pretty frequently.

1) Baseline: The starting difficulty of your nodes. This is based on roster strength. (And is the only thing affecting Gauntlet in any way, according to the Devs.)

2) Personal Scaling: How badly you beat nodes. If you go in with 100% health and come out with 99% health, clearly the node is too easy for you. If you go in with 100% and come out with 0% (loss) then maybe the node is too hard.

3) Community Scaling: Some kinda formula based on the personal scaling of everyone in the bracket.

It's been stated that your roster has nothing to do with 2) or 3), only win percents. The Gauntlet sets all the nodes difficulty when you enter using the baseline difficulty formula, and then doesn't move from there. It's a personal Everest for each individual roster to climb.

I'm impressed. You are spookily accurate except one point. There is scaling in gauntlet, not just baseline. Any time you beat a node (even if it's one you beat before) it could cause all nodes to increase in scaling. This causes the illusion of community scaling, but in reality, it's based on your gameplay for gauntlet.

Edited per MarvelMan - The person quoted was NOT saying there was community scaling in Gauntlet. I misread it....TWICE.

squirrel1120

Phantron wrote:

The Gauntlet definitely has a component for winning at all. If you write down the level of the first node and check on it again after you beat the whole bracket it's a lot higher (minus the first bracket which is fixed). It's not really meaningful because the Gauntlet is pretty much one way so it's not like you have some alternative way of reaching the end, though on the final bracket this means for high scaling players you want to do the first essential branch first because everything after about the halfway point is going to be 395s so they can't possibly go any higher, but if you went toward the end first then the first essential branch would be close to 395 from all the nodes you beat when you do come back to it. For people who don't have scaling quite that high it's a judgment call because whatever nodes you do last is always going to be higher if it won't hit 395.

Without max'd 4*'s, our scaling never maxes out. I've been farming nodes for goodies, and sim42 is still only 332. I pushed through the main missions first, then hit the second set of essentials, and then the first. This raises those essentials a little more instead of raising the level of every sim beyond them. I think the average roster wants sim 38-42 to be scaled a little less than they do essientials 13-18... although cage was a bit of a pain in the tush, I don't think 20-40 levels would change that much. The hardest part about any essential being having to work a group around a character that you wouldn't normally want to even bring into that node... or any node at all in some cases.

stowaway

Jamie Madrox wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

Jamie Madrox wrote:

Theoretically if you lose your scaling will go down. Also, if you boost you might find it easier.

This is not true in Gauntlet, which doesn't actually have scaling.

Right I forgot about that. In which case my second statement holds true. Boost my child. Boost like a tinykitty.

I've had levels go down after losing to a node repeatedly. By about 20 levels. I've also had them go UP after losing (by just one level). It seems like they go up if you send a **** team in, losing on purpose. I'm not suggesting the game magically knows whether I'm making a genuine effort, but I've only seen Gauntlet levels go down when I really was trying to win.

Unknown

I am not sure about the sending a **** team out part, i have lost with lvl 200 xforce, 166 lcap, 166 pun for 5 times already on the 1st node of the 3rd sub but instead of the levels going down, it increased 5 levels more

Unknown

Looks like it's been some time since the scaling does not go down when you lose...

Sadly.

squirrel1120

@hesjingixen-

Perhaps it has more to do with the particular characters you've focused on? I have a likely similar roster, and for the most part thought gauntlet was a breeze for my roster over previous iterations. I'm squirrel1120 in Kick Azz if you want to compare directly, but I only have 3 maxed (patch, hulk, Lcap) and then a mix of decent characters that goes down to 95ish before reaching the 2* teir. Lcap was hardly of use at all without their being any scaled up, goon only nodes. Patch/hulk only went into a few nodes together (hulkbomb), while the vast majority of the event was completed with a 166/144/95 team setup.

As I point out to alliance-group members pretty much daily, its much better to have a wide roster with equal levels than it is a few seemingly powerful characters. Eventually those higher character get discluded and the node scales stay the same. Unfortunately for some, but the time they've gotten this information the damage is already done, but at least knowing a direction to move in can help...

_RiO_

fmftint wrote:

hesjingixen wrote:

I know I'm far from the first person to bring it up, but the way this game punishes you for having a diverse roster is pretty ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I understand that Gauntlet is supposed to be hard, but I'm 2 nodes from the end of the SECOND gauntlet, and everyone is 214 or higher. I don't have a single character above 167, but I have lots at 166, so thanks to terrible scaling, my odds at finishing the 3rd gauntlet are nearly impossible.

This really feels like the most important issue for them to address, seeing as the want us to spend the money to get all the things, but then they punish us for getting all the things......and yet I've never heard them address a possible fix. Has anyone?

What are your featured characters boosted to? It matters, DD gets 90 levels this event which will kill you If he is maxed

And this is why node difficulty should be based on base character level and not boosted character level.

Unknown

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