X-Force/Thor Question?

Phaserhawk

We see daily the XForce wahhhhh, Thor boo hoo. So I have a poll for everyone and will post after results in

Unknown

By everything the same you mean damage, AP costs, etc, all same but XF gets 6800 health and TGT gets 10200 health? They would each still be better than Elektra, Star Lord, and Invisible Woman. Maybe Devil Dino would get the top top prize, but they would certainly be top 10 still. Who else is going to demolish the enemy XF of 6800 health but your own XF?

over_clocked

They would be much closer to best 3*s but that's still top tier, and their damage would be still unrivaled.

Phaserhawk

Lerysh wrote:

By everything the same you mean damage, AP costs, etc, all same but XF gets 6800 health and TGT gets 10200 health? They would each still be better than Elektra, Star Lord, and Invisible Woman. Maybe Devil Dino would get the top top prize, but they would certainly be top 10 still. Who else is going to demolish the enemy XF of 6800 health but your own XF?

correct. Everything the same but X-Force at 6800 and Thor at 10200

Arondite

Thoress would definitely be. She could still easily 2v1 any of the cast.

X-Force would be a powerful character, but not objectively better than 100% of the 3Star cast by any means, and Star Lord may take his place as an ap-managing nuker due to being more sustainable by having 3.5k more health.

Phaserhawk

locked wrote:

They would be much closer to best 3*s but that's still top tier, and their damage would be still unrivaled.

Would they still be considered OP'd?

I've said before, I think a majority of the power in the 4* class is due to their hitpoints

NorthernPolarity

Thor's skillset is ridiculous: she would still be by far the best offensive option in the game. X-Force would be much closer to a 3*: probably a lot closer to LazyThor's power level.

JamieMadrox

Even if you scaled down their ability damage to be on a 3* level they'd still dominate.

Phaserhawk

So let's say they did Platnium characters, where they just upgrade Gold.

Captain America for example would be

13,685 hitpoints

Sentinel of Liberty - Yellow 19
Captain America courageously rushes to protect the team’s flank. Transforms 3 chosen basic tiles into Yellow Protect tiles, each with a strength of 38.
Level 2 – Increases Protect Strength to 50.
Level 3 – Increases Protect Strength to 61. (Max 447 )
Level 4 – Increases Protect Strength to 75 .
Level 5 – Transform 4 tiles.
Max Level: Protect Strength 545 per tile for 2180 protection

Star Spangled Avenger - Red 11
The Captain hurls his trusty shield into battle. Hits the target for 152 damage and transforms a chosen basic tile into a 3 turn Countdown tile that returns 8 Red AP.
Level 2 – 336 damage. Returns 9 .
Level 3 – 520 damage. Can target Strike, Protect, Attack, and Web tiles.
Level 4 – 703 damage. Returns 10 .
Level 5 – 887 damage. Can target any tile.
Max Level: 6490 damage

Peacemaker - Blue 12
Captain America gallantly launches his shield at the enemy. Stuns the target for 2 turns and transforms a chosen basic tile into a 3 turn Countdown tile that returns 8 Blue AP.
Level 2 – Converts to a strength 27 Protect tile when activated. Returns 9 .
Level 3 - Can target strike. protect, attack, and web tiles. Protect strength increased to 43.
Level 4 - Returns 10 . Protect strength increased to 59
Level 5 - Can target any tile. Protect strength increased to 77.
Max Level: 550 protect

Where would Super Lazy Platnium Captain America fall into place?

This is just a 61% upgrade of everything which 4*'s tend to be, so is this guy overpowered?

NorthernPolarity

Phaserhawk wrote:

So let's say they did Platnium characters, where they just upgrade Gold.

Captain America for example would be

13,685 hitpoints

Sentinel of Liberty - Yellow 19
Captain America courageously rushes to protect the team’s flank. Transforms 3 chosen basic tiles into Yellow Protect tiles, each with a strength of 38.
Level 2 – Increases Protect Strength to 50.
Level 3 – Increases Protect Strength to 61. (Max 447 )
Level 4 – Increases Protect Strength to 75 .
Level 5 – Transform 4 tiles.
Max Level: Protect Strength 545 per tile for 2180 protection

Star Spangled Avenger - Red 11
The Captain hurls his trusty shield into battle. Hits the target for 152 damage and transforms a chosen basic tile into a 3 turn Countdown tile that returns 8 Red AP.
Level 2 – 336 damage. Returns 9 .
Level 3 – 520 damage. Can target Strike, Protect, Attack, and Web tiles.
Level 4 – 703 damage. Returns 10 .
Level 5 – 887 damage. Can target any tile.
Max Level: 6490 damage

Peacemaker - Blue 12
Captain America gallantly launches his shield at the enemy. Stuns the target for 2 turns and transforms a chosen basic tile into a 3 turn Countdown tile that returns 8 Blue AP.
Level 2 – Converts to a strength 27 Protect tile when activated. Returns 9 .
Level 3 - Can target strike. protect, attack, and web tiles. Protect strength increased to 43.
Level 4 - Returns 10 . Protect strength increased to 59
Level 5 - Can target any tile. Protect strength increased to 77.
Max Level: 550 protect

Where would Super Lazy Platnium Captain America fall into place?

This is just a 61% upgrade of everything which 4*'s tend to be, so is this guy overpowered?

Worse than X-Force, equal to Fury, and significantly worse than LadyThor.

SnowcaTT

Folks use Patch/Hulk to down them - I think Patch/Hulk would then become more similar to them.

I agree with those that say some of the reason 4*'s are good are their health. Dino attacks are good not great, but his health is what makes me not take him on.

However, for the most part the good 3*'s have better abilities than the good 2*'s - and the good 2* abilities can't keep up with 3*'s in large part due to health. The reason the "lazy" characters are better than their 2* counterparts is largely health - and several of the 3* versions are some of the better 3*'s (Daken/Cap/Thor). Note that the "lazy" version have slightly better abilities.

Shouldn't 4*'s have better abilities than 4*'s? Shouldn't 3*'s not be able to keep up in large part because of the health difference?

Phaserhawk

A 4* upgrade of 3* Thor would be pretty dang powerful

Green would do 3636 Aoe and 3636 to target
yellow would do 4002
red will still not be good

but I agree not sure he would be in 4* Thor's range.

SnowcaTT

Phaserhawk wrote:

A 4* upgrade of 3* Thor would be pretty dang powerful

Green would do 3636 Aoe and 3636 to target
yellow would do 4002
red will still not be good

but I agree not sure he would be in 4* Thor's range.

But note that 3* Cap, for example, leaves defensive tiles behind when 2* doesn't. 2* Daken leaves one strike tile, 3* Daken leaves two. I would think a 4* would have an ability upgrade, not a one-for-one.

To lazy to make a lazier Daken, but imagine a 4* Daken that makes three, stronger strike tiles (and heals more). He'd be a monster.

Phaserhawk

SnowcaTT wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

A 4* upgrade of 3* Thor would be pretty dang powerful

Green would do 3636 Aoe and 3636 to target
yellow would do 4002
red will still not be good

but I agree not sure he would be in 4* Thor's range.

But note that 3* Cap, for example, leaves defensive tiles behind when 2* doesn't. 2* Daken leaves one strike tile, 3* Daken leaves two. I would think a 4* would have an ability upgrade, not a one-for-one.

To lazy to make a lazier Daken, but imagine a 4* Daken that makes three, stronger strike tiles (and heals more). He'd be a monster.

Okay, how about 4* Captain America leaves behind a 148 strength strike tile when red resolves?

NorthernPolarity

It's kinda sad if you think about it. 4* cap for 10 red AP and 12 blue AP does 2 turn stun and 6k damage, with it recurring over 2 turns.
LadyThor for 10 red and 12 blue one shots a guy, and stunlocks the last guy.

Unknown

X-Force isn't THAT scary on defense and rarely takes 7k damage on offense, so he wouldn't be affected much imo. 4hor on the other hand would probably be significantly worse but still better than any 3*

Phaserhawk

NorthernPolarity wrote:

It's kinda sad if you think about it. 4* cap for 10 red AP and 12 blue AP does 2 turn stun and 6k damage, with it recurring over 2 turns.
LadyThor for 10 red and 12 blue one shots a guy, and stunlocks the last guy.

yeah, going through the numbers, and trying to upgrade 3*'s to 4*'s, actually X-Force is pretty dang close to Patch, a 61% increase in Beserker Rage would be X-Force's initial damage, he would heal for like 700 per turn, but I just can't get numbers to equal what 4* Thor can do. I think the damage from the charged tiles needs to decrease a little bit.

Say you took Daken, gave him X-Force's health, he passively creates 75 strength strike tiles, and does like 887 per strike tile removed, he would be a bad **** but still could not do that kind of damage.

NorthernPolarity

Phaserhawk wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

It's kinda sad if you think about it. 4* cap for 10 red AP and 12 blue AP does 2 turn stun and 6k damage, with it recurring over 2 turns.
LadyThor for 10 red and 12 blue one shots a guy, and stunlocks the last guy.

yeah, going through the numbers, and trying to upgrade 3*'s to 4*'s, actually X-Force is pretty dang close to Patch, a 61% increase in Beserker Rage would be X-Force's initial damage, he would heal for like 700 per turn, but I just can't get numbers to equal what 4* Thor can do. I think the damage from the charged tiles needs to decrease a little bit.

Say you took Daken, gave him X-Force's health, he passively creates 75 strength strike tiles, and does like 887 per strike tile removed, he would be a bad **** but still could not do that kind of damage.

I don't think the charge tile damage change is enough: a large part of the OPness is the stunlock on the last guy - which is possible because charge tiles is so overpowered. I would focus on power surge -> 3 AP stun, and 8 charge tiles generated off of it at max level, which would nerf red as well. This is on the conservative side, but would make her much more reasonable.

Phaserhawk

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

It's kinda sad if you think about it. 4* cap for 10 red AP and 12 blue AP does 2 turn stun and 6k damage, with it recurring over 2 turns.
LadyThor for 10 red and 12 blue one shots a guy, and stunlocks the last guy.

yeah, going through the numbers, and trying to upgrade 3*'s to 4*'s, actually X-Force is pretty dang close to Patch, a 61% increase in Beserker Rage would be X-Force's initial damage, he would heal for like 700 per turn, but I just can't get numbers to equal what 4* Thor can do. I think the damage from the charged tiles needs to decrease a little bit.

Say you took Daken, gave him X-Force's health, he passively creates 75 strength strike tiles, and does like 887 per strike tile removed, he would be a bad **** but still could not do that kind of damage.

I don't think the charge tile damage change is enough: a large part of the OPness is the stunlock on the last guy - which is possible because charge tiles is so overpowered. I would focus on power surge -> 3 AP stun, and 8 charge tiles generated off of it at max level, which would nerf red as well. This is on the conservative side, but would make her much more reasonable.

Yeah if you decreased her skills by 61% she would still do 7.5K from powersurge/Smite combo and guess what, Mystique can do almost that 7.3K for the same amount of AP, given it's on a much frailer body, but your right the damage isn't super out of line, however for someone that tanky it is probably too much.

NorthernPolarity

Phaserhawk wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

It's kinda sad if you think about it. 4* cap for 10 red AP and 12 blue AP does 2 turn stun and 6k damage, with it recurring over 2 turns.
LadyThor for 10 red and 12 blue one shots a guy, and stunlocks the last guy.

yeah, going through the numbers, and trying to upgrade 3*'s to 4*'s, actually X-Force is pretty dang close to Patch, a 61% increase in Beserker Rage would be X-Force's initial damage, he would heal for like 700 per turn, but I just can't get numbers to equal what 4* Thor can do. I think the damage from the charged tiles needs to decrease a little bit.

Say you took Daken, gave him X-Force's health, he passively creates 75 strength strike tiles, and does like 887 per strike tile removed, he would be a bad **** but still could not do that kind of damage.

I don't think the charge tile damage change is enough: a large part of the OPness is the stunlock on the last guy - which is possible because charge tiles is so overpowered. I would focus on power surge -> 3 AP stun, and 8 charge tiles generated off of it at max level, which would nerf red as well. This is on the conservative side, but would make her much more reasonable.

Yeah if you decreased her skills by 61% she would still do 7.5K from powersurge/Smite combo and guess what, Mystique can do almost that 7.3K for the same amount of AP, given it's on a much frailer body, but your right the damage isn't super out of line, however for someone that tanky it is probably too much.

MQ's purple doesn't stun the last character indefinitely nor does it generate charge tiles to fuel her abilities. That's the difference.

Phaserhawk

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I don't think the charge tile damage change is enough: a large part of the OPness is the stunlock on the last guy - which is possible because charge tiles is so overpowered. I would focus on power surge -> 3 AP stun, and 8 charge tiles generated off of it at max level, which would nerf red as well. This is on the conservative side, but would make her much more reasonable.

Yeah if you decreased her skills by 61% she would still do 7.5K from powersurge/Smite combo and guess what, Mystique can do almost that 7.3K for the same amount of AP, given it's on a much frailer body, but your right the damage isn't super out of line, however for someone that tanky it is probably too much.[/quote]

MQ's purple doesn't stun for three turns nor does it generate charge tiles to fuel her abilities. That's the difference.[/quote]

oh, no I wasn't talking about the stun, just the straight damage. Btw I did find one character that would be better than Thor if you upgraded them from 2* to Gold to 4* and that would be Ares.

A 4* Ares would be doing 925 for each green AP.
Red would do 3046 Aoe and 6089 if below the health threshold
Sunder would do---And this is scary. 9056 damage to enemey, 3944 damage to you. Then on the rebound it would do 2957 to enemy and you would heal for 3207. With the same hit points as Thor I would say that Ares a 4* Ares would hands down be the best character in the game.