Talking Point: ISO Price & Value

TheVulture

No idea if people will take to it, but thought I'd try starting a discussion about ISO price & value on this here board - comments, additions, suggestions welcomed!

Current Position

I'll talk in US $, since those amounts are neater than for us in other countries:

ISO Sale Prices
Dead Drop - 800 ISO - $1.99
Treasure Box - 2,100 ISO - $4.99
Hidden Stash - 8,800 ISO - $19.99
Rich Deposit - 25,000 ISO - $49.99
Mother Lode - 52,000 ISO - $99.99

ISO To Max. (at approx. exchange rate of 500 ISO for $1)
1* with 2 powers - 18,720 ISO = $38
1* with 3 powers - 28,420 ISO = $57
2* with 2 powers - 45,370 ISO = $91
2* with 3 powers - 69,524 ISO = $140
3* with 2 powers - 111,154 ISO = $223
3* with 3 powers - 172,764 ISO = $346
4* with 3 powers - unknown ISO = unknown (upwards of $500)

My Analysis

I must admit that I am one of the 'enablers' of the current position, in that I bought the Mother Lode at Christmas (as a treat to finally be done levelling Grey Widow) even though I know ISO is really terrible value on any rational level.
However, that said, I do think the current price scale is doing a disservice to both D3 and customers.

Customers

1. ISO is, quite obviously, not good value for money - that a character which can scarcely be considered competitive (1* 3 power) can consume the whole cost of a new video-game in resource establishes a rather clear baseline that ISO sales are not pitched at anyone on a gaming budget (perhaps living on a budget of any kind!).

2. ISO sales are not, to be frank, terribly honest; with the way ISO costs-per-level is on a curve, someone just playing the game - without access to excellent forum resources like Shikao's calculator - could easily see "92 ISO to level" and be under the impression that 52,000 ISO will level their L15 Hulk to the moon and back.
Of course it won't - it would only get them to L81 and just a third of their overall Hulk ISO goal, where he will actually be worse than lower * characters of that level because of how the curve works.
Now this is not an attack on escalating ISO costs nor the * curve - both of which I consider vital to balance - but it is a fact that nothing in the game except slowly levelling a character of that * band previously gives players any idea of exactly how little character progress ISO purchases actually yield; this can of course result in very unhappy paying customers.

3. Regardless of where people stand on how much gaming power people should be able to purchase with real-money, the fact is the roster will get bigger and the difficulty curve (even PvE) will rise as the average roster strength of the player-base rises - with no credible real-money starter pack/special edition/whatever, new players just aren't going to be able to even approach the game.
When established players are migrating to 4* teams and new players are $150 value of ISO off even putting together Model 35 + Modern Widow + Modern Storm, who'd bother starting this game?

D3

1. I have no idea what-so-ever how ISO sales perform for D3, but my own intuition is that 'whale fishing' business model (relying on selling a small amount of fantastically expensive products to a tiny subset of players) just is not a great fit for MPQ.
Firstly; this is a connect-3 game & a Puzzle Quest game from D3, which I believe is seen as a casual genre/franchise and not one in which people spend $100s of at once.
Secondly; this is a Marvel licence and - while there are of course fantastically expensive merchandise items out there - I would guess the general ethos of acquiring perhaps the number one intellectual property in the world right now is to attract a broad audience.
Thirdly; ISO is not a premium/prestige product - I have always supposed that cash shop whales seek the greatest power/prestige in their chosen game, but there's nothing in MPQ that separates Scrooge McDuck's MasterCard all-stars from Tiny Tim Cratchett who is playing-without-paying a lot of hours from a sickbed this month.
(In other games the 'whale' items might be the Hulk With Funny Hat And 5% Higher Health super once-in-a-life-time limited-edition.)

2a. As covered above in players, the in-game less than transparent nature of just how little bought ISO actually does for players must surely lead to some disgruntled purchasers.
2b. Conversely; anyone forum-informed about ISO requirement - aka MPQ's biggest fans (generally?) - is more likely to disregard it as a purchase entirely.

3. It seems likely that the dev aim is to encourage players to aim for higher * characters over-time (certainly 3* characters have dominated recent additions), which does have obvious appeal for getting players to commit and producing a tangible sense of growth.
However the ISO-consumption of rarer characters makes ISO cash purchases exponentially less-relevant, because it is but a drop in the ocean for them; where other games try to tempt impulse buys with $10 for a bundle of lottery tickets, MPQ offers maybe 2 imperceptible tiny mathematical increments for $10 - or $100 for (perhaps) one fifth of a legendary character!
Furthermore; the volume of rare/legendary/5* characters will make the desirability of each individual one less pronounced, and thus less likely to attract the attention of people willing to spend $100s on them (when there are 3 DPS characters who can do what Grey Widow can, she's less of a game-play target and just one facet of a team build).

TheVulture

My Suggestion

Granted this may sound pretty wild, but I hope you'll hear me out.

I would suggest replacing ISO purchase entirely (or, as I have suggested elsewhere, just bundle the current ISO amounts with the matching HP purchases as an extra perk) with a system of level-to-max tokens, that I will call Terrigen Crystals for the sake of brevity.

Terrigen Crsytals Sale Prices
Terrigen Crystal - Level a common character to maximum - $1.99
Terrigen Stash - Level an uncommon character to maximum - $4.99
Terrigen Haul - Level a rare character to maximum - $19.99
Terrigen Lode - Level a legendary character to maximum - $49.99
Terrigen Mother Lode - Level a ??? (5* rarity) character to maximum - $99.99
(Pictures will prominently display the corresponding *s.)

These tokens can only be used on a character when they have unlocked their max level however - meaning all covers have been acquired & allocated - as of course things would get very complicated otherwise.
Can show-up/light-up next to the cover count when at cap, and the above purchases should have a pop-up that explains when they can be used.

Q. So Vulture, why would D3 ever lower the ISO-spending-capacity of characters so steeply?
A. I'm glad you asked, fictitious reader! There is reasoning behind this...

Common Characters
Estimated real-money income from 1* characters for D3 = $0; I cannot even imagine why anyone would spend real-money on 1* characters, when their covers flow freely and they don't require that much ISO - or more likely they don't warrant any ISO once people have played enough to see & obtain 2* characters.
Tempting people to spend $1.99 however would seem quite achievable; just include them in the lists of buffed characters for whatever event, and watch those teensy little buys trickle in - $1.99 Per character is an unlimited-% growth on $0!
Added bonus; lowering the value of a 1* from laughable $38/57 to $1.99 (counting 1* covers as valueless), and suddenly D3 have a price-point to offer a starter pack of maxed 1* characters to draw players in to the world of micro-transactions/when the PvE curve rises.

Uncommon Characters
$5 Is not much, and of course a massive step-down from $91/140, but similarly I have to speculate what ISO sale money there is in 2* currently?
I assume not much, given just how slow going it can be to obtain all those covers - in fact I (with zero evidence) assume that HP sales for covers is where the uncommon character profit is; and this is where the $5 price point would be highly complementary.
Currently when 2* characters are 7 or 8 covers in there's no particular urgency about levelling them, or - like me - players may just be in the habit of drip-feeding ISO into several characters as covers are randomly drawn and their cap rises; (almost?) no-one see's Wolverine is buffed for an event and thinks "woo hoo - now's the time to buy those 3 final covers and spend $140 dollars maxing him!"
But if levelling was just the $5 cherry on top and the 3-or-4 covers is the only obstacle to taking Wolverine from event-zero to event-hero... that's a whole other league of impulse buy.
If (a big if) 2* characters average $0-20 (if people really want those covers), generating $5 more is a big deal.
For players - besides a better class of impulse buy - this would bridge the gulf between 'normal' play and the higher rarity meta of the day (soon to be Patch + Grey Widow + Hood/whoever, I guess), since it would be attainable to achieve a synergetic 2* roster rather than desperately trying to ride one 2* Thor/Wolverine/whomever all the way to 3* tier.

Rare/Legendary/??? Characters
These are pretty much all in the same boat; the scarcity of covers combined with the HP required to purchase 10 covers (assuming the ideal 1/1/1 acquisition) - half a $100 Stark Salary for 3* and more than one for 4* - would make any subsequent levelling-token sales of these a huge profit win for D3, given higher rarity characters are no more expensive to develop than any others.
As I commented earlier, selling ISO for these characters is basically a non-starter once people have a grasp of how little it achieves (which, worst case scenario, is knowledge they obtain from their first big purchase) - I just don't think it's a viable business model.

Q. But Vulture, wouldn't this kill ISO - what will we play for?!
A. You are full of questions, fictitious reader - but I do have thoughts about this also...

For play-without-paying players, ISO functions just as it does currently - the thing to bear in mind is that, if the game/meta migrates to 3* then 4* then 5*, play-without-paying players are in for a progressively rougher time competing.
1,000 ISO is the grand-prize component of events currently and that's barely 0.5% the ISO needed by a 3* character - if ISO doesn't rise accordingly (which is unlikely unless D3 want to dissuade people from ever buying ISO at the current rate), levelling rarer characters is a long-term hobby.

For play-and-sometimes-pay players, ISO can continue to function as the levelling resource for characters that never intend to short-cut while both gaining & losing something for maybe/definitely short-cut characters.
The loss is that players are 'throwing away' ISO if they level characters who they then token to max, since such progress is over-written.
The gain is that, in synergy with the curve of levelling costs, ISO will remain very handy for climbing up the lower levels on the path to actually obtaining all those necessary covers as a stepping stone to maxing - a trifling 5k ISO takes a 3* to L32, which in an event where they're buffed/mandatory allows them to do something.
At the very least, taking advantage of those early cheap ISO levels gives players a try-before-you-buy sense of if the character is a good fit for them.

Unknown

I've considered buying ISO many times. Then I look at the package and think hmmmm which of these is a good value I can afford. Ok, looks like the $50 pack is reasonable, let's see how far it will level my 3*. Oh it will get me basically nowhere? Fk you ISO purchase. Oh wait!!! They just came out with a holiday ISO sale!!! Maybe now the ISO will be a reasonable price and worthy of being purchased!!! *goes to ISO shop* Oh look "cheap" ISO, I wonder if this will level up my 3* character. Oh wait.... I'm spending $50 DURING A SALE and still can't even level up my 3* (which is 2nd tier), Fk you ISO purchase!!!!!

True story.

Unknown

ISO is almost a pure representation of time played. Rewards are small and the number of opportunities you have to get bigger chunks of it is limited. So, it is probably priced accordingly if you think of it that way.

This game only really exists when you have lots of people playing.The more, the better. So, if you devalue ISO (with real money) you also greatly disincintivize the need for people to play.

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

ISO is almost a pure representation of time played. Rewards are small and the number of opportunities you have to get bigger chunks of it is limited. So, it is probably priced accordingly if you think of it that way.

This game only really exists when you have lots of people playing.The more, the better. So, if you devalue ISO (with real money) you also greatly disincintivize the need for people to play.

I would have to agree with this observation. The higher the amount 500 ISO is represented in the store for real money, the less inclined I am to buy it directly and instead earn it through game play. At least when I do get 500 as an award, it's a whole different way of thinking when I see that as say, a $10 value compare to $5 or even $2.50. (Hypothetical numbers to prove a point)

Yes, the money to amount ratio doesn't exactly add to it as a value buy, but it does give that extra weight to it when that amount of ISO is gained or rewarded through actual gameplay.

Unknown

I'm not even gonna argue with people silly enough to defend these outrageous prices.

Unknown

With the shield changes now the limiting factor is likely Iso 8, not HP. I mean I still keep on buy character spaces just because I like to collect stuff, but honestly I don't really need HP at this point. If I need a cover, I can spend about 200 HP into shields which should guaranteed just about any 4 star cover. While that doesn't help me in getting any cover that isn't provided as a progression reward, this is pretty much limited to just 3 star villians. With the Ragnarok nerf, there is no absolute necessity to have them to be competitive.

Now I think the price for iso 8 is pretty steep, but unless nobody is buying them at all, it is not up to me to determine what's a fair price and what is not. If iso 8 is indeed too expensive, that's D3's problem, not my problem.

TheVulture

I do understand & agree that ISO = time, but for all anyone might say about health packs & shields, MPQ is extremely light on commercialization.

Normally money = time (basically XP in MMO's) wouldn't come up, or would just be something minor like a temporary XP booster - and in fact that's often desirable.
However; MPQ doesn't sell any traditional cash shop goods what-so-ever - no character 'costumes'/special-editions (which I could see working), no account upgrades beyond roster slots purchasable with prize HP, no account buffs...
Heck; with the Marvel licence, most publishers would be selling whole store-exclusive characters!

But with just cover packs (that there's no need to cash-buy for if you're patient or simply have a good enough squad to win them), health packs & shields (that are both basically just for the 2-3 day PvP tournaments, and are rebated by placing for HP prizes) as the only revenue sources, I am concerned that the game cannot afford to write ISO/XP off.
As one (of the many) who has had games cancelled out from under them, I do think game's can lean too far in leaning towards players who invest only time; D3 are being 100% by the book in not selling power for cash (huzzah!), but if they also don't sell 'time' to those who have more money than that - or join the game in the future and want to catch-up - that's got to be a hit to the bank balance...

Unknown

Health packs aren't selling well because the game isn't balanced. You don't need health packs if you simply rolled over the other team with all your guys always at 100% health.

Unknown

I'm certain that is cash flow becomes a problem, they'll consider all options to increase it, including making ISO cheaper. I also imagine that since they've already adjusted pricing, that they will be keeping an eye on how things do. If it's not selling enough for their tastes, they'll reduce the price.

I know I would be more inclined to buy if it were a better deal, but I'm also ok with it being expensive enough to generally encourage people to earn it via playing rather than paying their way.

Unknown

I don't think you have to worry about cash for now. Some user noted that this app has never left the top 100 (in revenue) since it's launch. The average price you need to get (daily) to break the top 50 is somewhere around 12k a day (see link).

http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/27/how-do ... y-revenue/


So, if you're hovering around a top 50 app, that represents about 80-90k a week.

TheVulture

Toxicadam wrote:

I don't think you have to worry about cash for now. Some user noted that this app has never left the top 100 (in revenue) since it's launch. The average price you need to get (daily) to break the top 50 is somewhere around 12k a day (see link).

http://techcrunch.com/2013/06/27/how-do ... y-revenue/


So, if you're hovering around a top 50 app, that represents about 80-90k a week.

Ooh; good to know! Thank you.

Unknown

A really good writeup, I hope people with influence read it. (I'm completely on the fence with the issue, but all written makes sense and deserves consideration.)

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Health packs aren't selling well because the game isn't balanced. You don't need health packs if you simply rolled over the other team with all your guys always at 100% health.

Now on this I'm quite sure that as soon as the game would seriously "force" health pack purchases to get anywhere interesting, players would immediately start mass emigration until quite only the purchasers remain to look at each other like in a fish tank.

I'm sure the known healing missions in prologue are kept there NOT by an overlook. when a game seriously hiders their style and pace of play, they lose fun pretty fast. Adding shields that fixed/improved a serious "when to play" issue tells me that devs are aware of the important forces.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Health packs aren't selling well because the game isn't balanced. You don't need health packs if you simply rolled over the other team with all your guys always at 100% health.

Now on this I'm quite sure that as soon as the game would seriously "force" health pack purchases to get anywhere interesting, players would immediately start mass emigration until quite only the purchasers remain to look at each other like in a fish tank.

I'm sure the known healing missions in prologue are kept there NOT by an overlook. when a game seriously hiders their style and pace of play, they lose fun pretty fast. Adding shields that fixed/improved a serious "when to play" issue tells me that devs are aware of the important forces.

I'm wondering why the devs haven't implemented the idea of using health packs during battles at this rate.