Ben Grimm, this thread is for you

loroku

I mean, I assume you knew already, but in case you didn't, I think we have a timeline on when the team will be finished:

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/vide ... r-20150127

Trisul

I hate to be a downer, but I know Marvel and Fox aren't on particularly good terms right now, which is why they are canceling the FF series. Not sure if we'll get any FF members anytime soon, even if the movie is great.

Square

Trisul wrote:

I hate to be a downer, but I know Marvel and Fox aren't on particularly good terms right now, which is why they are canceling the FF series. Not sure if we'll get any FF members anytime soon, even if the movie is great.

No, they are canceling it because of low sales. They relaunched it two years ago with an A-list writer, Matt Fraction: it flopped. They relaunched it again with another A-list writer, James Robinson: it flopped again. Marvel is not a charity, it can't publish comics that people won't buy.

There were a dozen monthly X-books last year. Those rights are also with Fox.

Either it's a fight with Fox or its sales, and only one is consistent with what they actually publish.

Trisul

Yeah that's true, I should have said "partially why".

kensterr

Square wrote:

Trisul wrote:

I hate to be a downer, but I know Marvel and Fox aren't on particularly good terms right now, which is why they are canceling the FF series. Not sure if we'll get any FF members anytime soon, even if the movie is great.

No, they are canceling it because of low sales. They relaunched it two years ago with an A-list writer, Matt Fraction: it flopped. They relaunched it again with another A-list writer, James Robinson: it flopped again. Marvel is not a charity, it can't publish comics that people won't buy.

There were a dozen monthly X-books last year. Those rights are also with Fox.

Either it's a fight with Fox or its sales, and only one is consistent with what they actually publish.

They killed Wolverine and will kill Deadpool soon.

Square

And Wolverine is never coming back?! Oh no! Now there's a book called Wolverines starring a bunch of characters that Fox owns (Daken, Sabretooth, Mystique, X-23, etc). Marvel sure is sticking it to Fox

They killed Captain America too, then brought him back, now he's 90 years old. Doesn't matter.

Within a year or two, there will be Fantasic Four on the stands, Cap will be back, Wolverine will be back, Deadpool will be back, and these conspiracies will sound pretty silly. It's just what Marvel and DC do: pretend to have changes, then roll back to the status quo.

Unknown

I appreciate the thought, but based on everything I've heard, Marvel is at absolute war with Fox right now and isn't approving any licensing for the Fantastic Four right now, to the extent the movie won't even have a toy line, it looks like.

That said, I'm not even planning on seeing the movie, since it looks like they're trying to make the Fantastic Four and take everything I like about them out of it.

loroku

Ben Grimm wrote:

I appreciate the thought, but based on everything I've heard, Marvel is at absolute war with Fox right now and isn't approving any licensing for the Fantastic Four right now, to the extent the movie won't even have a toy line, it looks like.

That said, I'm not even planning on seeing the movie, since it looks like they're trying to make the Fantastic Four and take everything I like about them out of it.

No idea about licensing, or how / if that would affect this game, but eh, whatever - corporations do what corporations do. Considering Marvel was nearly closed about a decade (?) ago, they're lucky to have anything, honestly.

Very sorry you feel so badly about the movie! What is it that you don't like? It seems like a pretty generic re-telling of the origin story, barely different from the other horrid movie from 2005 (or did you like that movie?). I like they are actually trying to include more people of color - comics in general are really, really, REALLY behind the times on this. Although they keep making the Invisible Woman younger and younger. (Soon she'll be Reed's daughter, sheesh.) Didn't really catch anything about The Thing from the trailer, tho.

Unknown

loroku wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

I appreciate the thought, but based on everything I've heard, Marvel is at absolute war with Fox right now and isn't approving any licensing for the Fantastic Four right now, to the extent the movie won't even have a toy line, it looks like.

That said, I'm not even planning on seeing the movie, since it looks like they're trying to make the Fantastic Four and take everything I like about them out of it.

No idea about licensing, or how / if that would affect this game, but eh, whatever - corporations do what corporations do. Considering Marvel was nearly closed about a decade (?) ago, they're lucky to have anything, honestly.

Very sorry you feel so badly about the movie! What is it that you don't like? It seems like a pretty generic re-telling of the origin story, barely different from the other horrid movie from 2005 (or did you like that movie?). I like they are actually trying to include more people of color - comics in general are really, really, REALLY behind the times on this. Although they keep making the Invisible Woman younger and younger. (Soon she'll be Reed's daughter, sheesh.) Didn't really catch anything about The Thing from the trailer, tho.

I wasn't super-fond of the 2005 movie, though I liked Mike Chiklis and Chris Evans in it. It got Doom more wrong than I would have thought possible, and Jessica Alba was just miscast as Sue Storm. And it was too small-scale and limited, with very low stakes, and the structure of the movie spent way too much time on a pretty lousy version of the origin. I thought the sequel was better, but not quite to the level of good.

With this one, I don't like the Ultimate Origin, I don't like the ages of the characters in this version, I don't like the casting of Jamie Bell as the Thing or anything I've heard about Doom, and the movie looks dark and unpleasant, where the Fantastic Four are at their best when they're light-hearted and fun. This looks grim and dark and all Nolany, and I've had more than my share of that by now.

rednailz

kensterr wrote:

Square wrote:

Trisul wrote:

I hate to be a downer, but I know Marvel and Fox aren't on particularly good terms right now, which is why they are canceling the FF series. Not sure if we'll get any FF members anytime soon, even if the movie is great.

No, they are canceling it because of low sales. They relaunched it two years ago with an A-list writer, Matt Fraction: it flopped. They relaunched it again with another A-list writer, James Robinson: it flopped again. Marvel is not a charity, it can't publish comics that people won't buy.

There were a dozen monthly X-books last year. Those rights are also with Fox.

Either it's a fight with Fox or its sales, and only one is consistent with what they actually publish.

They killed Wolverine and will kill Deadpool soon.

I'ts comics, heroes die and return more often than Super Mario.....If memory serves the only people to stay dead thus far of any sort of significance are Gwen Stacey, Kraven ,and Goliath (he's significant to some one, right?), and I'd expect them to bring back Kraven fairly soon, and it's been hinted that with the relaunch of whatever blashpamy of a universe Marvel will be coming back out with that Gwen may be brought back too.

rednailz

Ben Grimm wrote:

loroku wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

I appreciate the thought, but based on everything I've heard, Marvel is at absolute war with Fox right now and isn't approving any licensing for the Fantastic Four right now, to the extent the movie won't even have a toy line, it looks like.

That said, I'm not even planning on seeing the movie, since it looks like they're trying to make the Fantastic Four and take everything I like about them out of it.

No idea about licensing, or how / if that would affect this game, but eh, whatever - corporations do what corporations do. Considering Marvel was nearly closed about a decade (?) ago, they're lucky to have anything, honestly.

Very sorry you feel so badly about the movie! What is it that you don't like? It seems like a pretty generic re-telling of the origin story, barely different from the other horrid movie from 2005 (or did you like that movie?). I like they are actually trying to include more people of color - comics in general are really, really, REALLY behind the times on this. Although they keep making the Invisible Woman younger and younger. (Soon she'll be Reed's daughter, sheesh.) Didn't really catch anything about The Thing from the trailer, tho.

I wasn't super-fond of the 2005 movie, though I liked Mike Chiklis and Chris Evans in it. It got Doom more wrong than I would have thought possible, and Jessica Alba was just miscast as Sue Storm. And it was too small-scale and limited, with very low stakes, and the structure of the movie spent way too much time on a pretty lousy version of the origin. I thought the sequel was better, but not quite to the level of good.

With this one, I don't like the Ultimate Origin, I don't like the ages of the characters in this version, I don't like the casting of Jamie Bell as the Thing or anything I've heard about Doom, and the movie looks dark and unpleasant, where the Fantastic Four are at their best when they're light-hearted and fun. This looks grim and dark and all Nolany, and I've had more than my share of that by now.

I think it's a last ditch effort to bring in new viewers to FF hoping Nolany will bring them in. Dark and brooding is perfectly appropriate for Batman, and some other heroes but you are right, the FF have never been in that light, and it's a disgrace to the source material. FF should be "fun". It just seems that they can't find a writer or director that has the talent to make that work. Poor Silver Surfer...one of Marvel's most interesting and beloved charecters was caged into a terrible cameo in a poor movie and his entire silver screen existence is hinged on a Doomed (yeah, I did that) franchise.

I also think origin stories are played out, and with every relaunch we get the same movie (or two or three) with mostly the same story over and over again. It's a little beyond lame.

Unknown

The only people who stay dead are Uncle Ben and the Waynes, and them only because they're part of someone's origin. Everyone else either has come back or will come back.

Unknown

loroku wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

I appreciate the thought, but based on everything I've heard, Marvel is at absolute war with Fox right now and isn't approving any licensing for the Fantastic Four right now, to the extent the movie won't even have a toy line, it looks like.

That said, I'm not even planning on seeing the movie, since it looks like they're trying to make the Fantastic Four and take everything I like about them out of it.

No idea about licensing, or how / if that would affect this game, but eh, whatever - corporations do what corporations do. Considering Marvel was nearly closed about a decade (?) ago, they're lucky to have anything, honestly.

Very sorry you feel so badly about the movie! What is it that you don't like? It seems like a pretty generic re-telling of the origin story, barely different from the other horrid movie from 2005 (or did you like that movie?). I like they are actually trying to include more people of color - comics in general are really, really, REALLY behind the times on this. Although they keep making the Invisible Woman younger and younger. (Soon she'll be Reed's daughter, sheesh.) Didn't really catch anything about The Thing from the trailer, tho.

They don't have "something", they own 2 of the top10 highest earning movies of all time.

Marvel is a money making machine right now. There is no studio that even remotely comes close to the kind of cash they're making. Fox will continue to release a **** Fantastic 4 movie every 5 years to keep the rights, and so will Sony with Spider-Man, but it's like Microsoft releasing the Zune after iPods caught on.

Heartburn

I hope they get the Thing soon, maybe they can introduce him in the hulk event.

Trisul

Ben Grimm wrote:

This looks grim and dark and all Nolany, and I've had more than my share of that by now.

This is why Avengers and GotG were a breath of fresh air. People had forgotten that superheroes can be fun without the movie being smug or self-deprecating.

And that's why I'm a little worried for Avengers 2 (though still excited overall). Hope their saving the "fun" for the movie, because the trailers certainly don't have any. (minor exception for Hulkbuster)

Phaserhawk

Most movies rise and fall based on the villian in these types of movies.

Fantastic Four--Doom was just a bad version
FF2--Silver Surfer/Doom/Galactus just badly done

I'm not saying the bad guy has to be Darth Vader caliber, but you need someone that is decent. Look at Ronan in GotG. He wasn't the best bad guy but he was decent and at least fairly close to his comic self.

Spiderman-3--terribly done bad guys, they butchered Venom, sandman was really a misunderstood good guy, yeah don't think so.

My buddy a while ago asked me this question to prove this point.

Name 1 of the bad guys from the Die Hard series. Like 99% of the people you say Hans from the first one, which is by far the best, the rest were, just average. The villian makes the movie better. The Villian doesn't have to be amazing, but he needs to be believable, to me thats where FF failed, X-2 and X-3, Spidey 3, Amazing Spidey 1-2 just weren't as good as the original.

that's my other beef with comic book movies, they try to put too many bad guys in the movie and don't develop them.

Batman 89--only Joker--amazing
Batman's 2-5 way too many bad guys.

Spiderman 1 and 2--1 bad guy, and good movies. Spidey 3, 1 too many

The Dark Knight. 95% of the movie was 1 bad guy, Two-Face just seemed added on, but essentially that was the Joker's movie

PuceMoose

Fantastic Four--Doom was just a bad version

Just out of curiosity, what did they do to screw up Doom? I haven't seen the movie, but I have seen this comment repeated in many places, and am curious how they mangled it so badly.

Unknown

Puce Moose wrote:

Fantastic Four--Doom was just a bad version

Just out of curiosity, what did they do to screw up Doom? I haven't seen the movie, but I have seen this comment repeated in many places, and am curious how they mangled it so badly.

First of all: imagine the worst version of Doom someone could put on screen. This was somewhat worse than that.

Doom shared an origin with the FF and gained electrical powers.
Doom was not a monologuing supervillain from Latveria; he was an American-sounding CEO who might have some vague family ties to Latveria (this was slightly fixed in the second movie)
Doom didn't want to rule the world; he was in love with Sue
Doom was voiced by Julian McMahon, who played him. Julian McMahon's voice is not Doom's.
Doom was played by Julian McMahon, and was usually out of costume - mostly unscarred, only wore the armor at the end
Doom was a dull, rote, low-grade villain. He looked kind of like him, had the same name, but was just not remotely the same character.

He was portrayed much better in the second film, but still not well; he was obsessed with gaining Silver Surfer's power, at least, but he was too badly-done a character for them to truly fix him.

orionpeace

Ben Grimm wrote:

Puce Moose wrote:

Fantastic Four--Doom was just a bad version

Just out of curiosity, what did they do to screw up Doom? I haven't seen the movie, but I have seen this comment repeated in many places, and am curious how they mangled it so badly.

First of all: imagine the worst version of Doom someone could put on screen. This was somewhat worse than that.

Doom shared an origin with the FF and gained electrical powers.
Doom was not a monologuing supervillain from Latveria; he was an American-sounding CEO who might have some vague family ties to Latveria (this was slightly fixed in the second movie)
Doom didn't want to rule the world; he was in love with Sue
Doom was voiced by Julian McMahon, who played him. Julian McMahon's voice is not Doom's.
Doom was played by Julian McMahon, and was usually out of costume - mostly unscarred, only wore the armor at the end
Doom was a dull, rote, low-grade villain. He looked kind of like him, had the same name, but was just not remotely the same character.

He was portrayed much better in the second film, but still not well; he was obsessed with gaining Silver Surfer's power, at least, but he was too badly-done a character for them to truly fix him.

Ben, I think you are being way to generous here.

The Doctor Doom in that movie was even less on point than the Mandarin was in Iron Man 3.

Unknown

I have to say, I didn't care at all for Iron Man 3, but the Mandarin was my favorite part of the film.

The suggestion that one of Marvel's most iconic villains was just a puppet scare tactic, and the accompanying thematic suggestion that the threat of international terrorism is in some sense a chimera or bogey--those were cool ideas. If the Mandarin had been propped up by a real villain and not just a very poorly developed jealous scientist guy, the twist might have worked.

What they really wasted in that movie was AIM (which didn't include a single HAZMAT suit scientist), most of Iron Man's suits (which could be smashed apart by bloody trucks), and Tony Stark's performance issues and PTSD problems (which could have been interesting if fleshed out and/or paired with his alcoholism).

rednailz

Moon 17 wrote:

I have to say, I didn't care at all for Iron Man 3, but the Mandarin was my favorite part of the film.

The suggestion that one of Marvel's most iconic villains was just a puppet scare tactic, and the accompanying thematic suggestion that the threat of international terrorism is in some sense a chimera or bogey--those were cool ideas. If the Mandarin had been propped up by a real villain and not just a very poorly developed jealous scientist guy, the twist might have worked.

What they really wasted in that movie was AIM (which didn't include a single HAZMAT suit scientist), most of Iron Man's suits (which could be smashed apart by bloody trucks), and Tony Stark's performance issues and PTSD problems (which could have been interesting if fleshed out and/or paired with his alcoholism).

Ugh,....don't even get me started on the lost oppertunity with AIM