Save the seed teams!

Oldboy
Oldboy Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
edited February 2015 in MPQ General Discussion
Dear devs, please please please save the seed teams. Don't remove them. There is no logic to players expecting to play against human opponents in PVP since any match is aqainst an AI and not actual humans. The AI just gets a player's team to play with. In an age of scarce iso and overscaled enemies in PVE and retaliations in PVP, please let us have our seed teams in LR and PVP.

Comments

  • ruinedcause
    ruinedcause Posts: 97
    Agreed! I don't know who the **** would ever complain about seed teams, but it appears as if they're getting what they wished for. Why anyone would want to rid themselves of free ISO and attacking with impunity is beyond me. I guess people like being retaliated against... icon_rolleyes.gif
  • slidecage
    slidecage Posts: 3,514 Chairperson of the Boards
    so this means we only attack other players now? Good luck newbies getting anywhere now
  • Mawtful
    Mawtful Posts: 1,646 Chairperson of the Boards
    More importantly, where are these people making complaints that the devs listen to? I have some "complaints" of my own which I would like to air.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    ruinedcause wrote:
    Agreed! I don't know who the **** would ever complain about seed teams, but it appears as if they're getting what they wished for. Why anyone would want to rid themselves of free ISO and attacking with impunity is beyond me. I guess people like being retaliated against... icon_rolleyes.gif

    The same people that are complaining about the AI cheating because they didn't realize that goons generate AP passively. These changes are meant to cater towards newbies who are confused and make support tickets that CS has to answer. Fixing these issues probably greatly reduces the amount of annoying emails that they get, which costs them time and money.
  • babinro
    babinro Posts: 771 Critical Contributor
    I doubt this is a response to complaints as much as fixing a system that's been openly exploited by players (including myself) for ages.

    This was just one of those 'meta-game' aspects of MPQ that people in the know benefited from at the expense of others. No different than late joining PvE subs in the last 40 minutes to finish top 10 over people who spent hours grinding them.

    Can you honestly say that farming ~175 points in LR's from seed teams alone due to joining in the first 30 seconds was truly 'working as intended'?

    I can't. This is a change that's unquestionably better for the game as a whole...
    It sucks though. REALLY sucks.
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,487 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'd like to see NOTHING but seed teams for the entire event. An improvement would be seed teams until you break out of 100 - easy for all, including newbies.
    But most players expect to play against actual people in Versus Events

    Actual people are over-rated, leave the seed teams!
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    SnowcaTT wrote:
    I'd like to see NOTHING but seed teams for the entire event. An improvement would be seed teams until you break out of 100 - easy for all, including newbies.
    But most players expect to play against actual people in Versus Events

    Actual people are over-rated, leave the seed teams!
    I dont think taking the seed teams will effect anything. Most of the teams at under 100 points are 1star or non maxed 2star teams anyway. The only effect it will have on players will be an extra 2-3 matches that you might take another 500 dmg in
  • AionTeleos
    AionTeleos Posts: 37 Just Dropped In
    I like the seed teams, and hope that the devs decide to keep them how they are.

    The devs' comment about people wanting to fight other players reignited my desire for one of my favorite aspects of playing Puzzle Quest on the 360-true PVP, with players who are online at the same time fighting it out head to head. There could be X number of seconds (30? 45?). Man I would love to see that implemented in MPQ.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    babinro wrote:
    I doubt this is a response to complaints as much as fixing a system that's been openly exploited by players (including myself) for ages.

    This was just one of those 'meta-game' aspects of MPQ that people in the know benefited from at the expense of others. No different than late joining PvE subs in the last 40 minutes to finish top 10 over people who spent hours grinding them.

    Can you honestly say that farming ~175 points in LR's from seed teams alone due to joining in the first 30 seconds was truly 'working as intended'?

    No its probably not working as intended. But if they going to just have a couple of seed teams I guess it just means that if I am going to farm ISO in LR now I will tank my MMR beforehand - which I not done for a couple of months - so there still quick matches.
  • DrNitroman
    DrNitroman Posts: 966 Critical Contributor
    SnowcaTT wrote:
    But most players expect to play against actual people in Versus Events
    Actual people are over-rated, leave the seed teams!
    +1 ! icon_lol.gificon_lol.gif
    NorthernPolarity wrote:
    ruinedcause wrote:
    Agreed! I don't know who the **** would ever complain about seed teams, but it appears as if they're getting what they wished for. Why anyone would want to rid themselves of free ISO and attacking with impunity is beyond me. I guess people like being retaliated against... icon_rolleyes.gif
    The same people that are complaining about the AI cheating because they didn't realize that goons generate AP passively. These changes are meant to cater towards newbies who are confused and make support tickets that CS has to answer. Fixing these issues probably greatly reduces the amount of annoying emails that they get, which costs them time and money.
    You might be right...
    ... but first, devs have to acknowledge that the new players would be less confused if ever they hadn't to guess most of the rules of this game!
    (Although I'm aware that some players would keep complaining even with well explained rules just because some people love complaining! icon_e_surprised.gif )
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    The unfortunate side effect of this is that people below 200 points are going to start seeing hits. If very casual players start losing points regularly, they're not going to like it, and some may even quit.

    The whole points ecosystem will probably drop 50 points or so.
  • JamieMadrox
    JamieMadrox Posts: 1,798 Chairperson of the Boards
    Seed teams just get in the way of me getting real substantial points from a node. 3 easy matches for 70 points or 3 marginally harder matches for 100+ points? I'll take the latter thanks.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    From the history of similar topics, I can very well foresee how this is going too...
  • FaustianDeal
    FaustianDeal Posts: 760 Critical Contributor
    Jamie Madrox wrote:
    Seed teams just get in the way of me getting real substantial points from a node. 3 easy matches for 70 points or 3 marginally harder matches for 100+ points? I'll take the latter thanks.

    Many people have advocated using the 'skip' button as a way to address issues of drawing an opponent you don't want to hit - couldn't this solution be applied here to resolve your concern without destroying the ISO farm?
    babinro wrote:
    I doubt this is a response to complaints as much as fixing a system that's been openly exploited by players (including myself) for ages.

    This was just one of those 'meta-game' aspects of MPQ that people in the know benefited from at the expense of others. No different than late joining PvE subs in the last 40 minutes to finish top 10 over people who spent hours grinding them.

    Can you honestly say that farming ~175 points in LR's from seed teams alone due to joining in the first 30 seconds was truly 'working as intended'?

    I can't. This is a change that's unquestionably better for the game as a whole...
    It sucks though. REALLY sucks.

    "Working as intended"? Likely no.
    "Hurting anyone?" In a real way; no.

    I don't think the players that were grinding seed teems for ISO had been having a destabilizing effect on the outcome of tournaments. I doubt ISO farming even impacted the outcome of lightning rounds.

    Opinions may vary on this, but I'll wager that lots of players will hit multipe rounds in a week where they don't hit a single player and weren't concerned with placement rewards. They were just volunteering to be higher-point targets for people who were going for placements while they tried to extract 1-2000 ISO per round out of a system that is constantly being evolved to prevent people from being able to finish characters.
  • FaustianDeal
    FaustianDeal Posts: 760 Critical Contributor
    Isn't the net effect of eliminating the seed teams to reduce the overall pool of points available in an event?

    Seed teams exist to build a pool of points to start an event... to 'seed' the environment. For argument sake; say there are 100,000 players in MPQ - having every player get 70 points from seed teams is basically starting the point 'economy' for an event off with ~7 million points. Outside of seed teams, attacking shielded players is the only means of adding points to an event's economy (and shield cool-downs have had a profound "cooling" effect on the point economy for the events). If those 7 million points are all that can exist in that event then you have to redistribute them through attacks. Attacks which are, I have always thought, zero-sum; for me to get 25 points I have to take them from someone else.

    They reduced the point targets for the progression rewards in PVP, but then they reduce the number of available points.

    In the hypothetical 7 million point, 100,000 player economy I am using in this post - 5,384 players could reach the 1300 progression prize, but only if every other player was reduced to 0 through zero-sum point trades from attack. They reduced the 4* prize tier to 1,000 so now 7,000 of my hypothetical players could reach the prize tier. But they have also removed a substantial percentage of the 7 million points that establish the point economy.

    The combination of lowering progression tiers, but also eliminating the seed points feels like another "1-step-forward,2-steps-back" tandem of announcements.

    (2 posts in a row, sorry, took the Conspiracy Engine a little longer to get warmed this morning - had to click 'submit' on a post to get it kick-started.)
  • SnowcaTT
    SnowcaTT Posts: 3,487 Chairperson of the Boards
    In PVP I don't care - you have three days, easy to get those first few matches in (although there is some threat of retribution).

    Seed teams still in LR's, all is well with the world. Thank you for that D3!

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