What If...? or What the?! -- PVP with one 4* only?

jackstar0

So what would you think of the game if PvP team's were limited to a single 4* character?


The reason for my bringing this up is that I have been reading about PvP of late seemingly getting rather stagnant as XF and 4hor have taken the top spots for synergy. I was thinking if the game were more about how to line up the right 3*s with a particular 4* there might be a little more variety in team composition and tweaking of 3*s to complement certain 4*s more.

I think this would/could NOT be applied to PvE events.

Long-time reader, first time caller, so I understand if this idea is derided as naive and foolish and insulting... just try to not be too abusive in your replies. Thanks, folks.

MojoWild

My first thought was... why couldn't your question have been your subject line?

My second thought was... might be a good idea.

jackstar0

MojoWild wrote:

My first thought was... why couldn't your question have been your subject line?

My second thought was... might be a good idea.

I wanted to lure in folks with Marvel-ized subject line. I will adjust if I can...

Also, thanks for replying.

NorthernPolarity

This wouldn't really diversify the metagame though. Instead of XF / 4or, you'd just see [XF / Loki], [XF / Hood], [4or / Hood], [4or, Loki], [4or, Cage] depending on who the featured character is. The 4*s are so much better than any 3* that the only 3*s that matter are the ones that synergize well with the 4*s, and I don't think that metagame is better enough than what we currently have for it to really be worth it. Honestly balance in PvP is probably impossible to get at this point, but they can probably at least do something with PvE to make it more diverse and interesting.

jackstar0

NorthernPolarity wrote:

This wouldn't really diversify the metagame though. Instead of XF / 4or, you'd just see [XF / Loki], [XF / Hood], [4or / Hood], [4or, Loki], [4or, Cage] depending on who the featured character is. The 4*s are so much better than any 3* that the only 3*s that matter are the ones that synergize well with the 4*s, and I don't think that metagame is better enough than what we currently have for it to really be worth it. Honestly balance in PvP is probably impossible to get at this point, but they can probably at least do something with PvE to make it more diverse and interesting.

So you don't think they could potentially augment other 3*s to complement Fury, Elektra, and even DD to make them viable/competitive?

Nothing could help IW. That's understood.

NorthernPolarity

jackstar0 wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

This wouldn't really diversify the metagame though. Instead of XF / 4or, you'd just see [XF / Loki], [XF / Hood], [4or / Hood], [4or, Loki], [4or, Cage] depending on who the featured character is. The 4*s are so much better than any 3* that the only 3*s that matter are the ones that synergize well with the 4*s, and I don't think that metagame is better enough than what we currently have for it to really be worth it. Honestly balance in PvP is probably impossible to get at this point, but they can probably at least do something with PvE to make it more diverse and interesting.

So you don't think they could potentially augment other 3*s to complement Fury, Elektra, and even DD to make them viable/competitive?

Nothing could help IW. That's understood.

Unfortunately no. XF and LadyThor are so above the power curve compared to Fury / Elektra / DD that those characters wouldn't stand a chance.

Nellobee

NorthernPolarity wrote:

jackstar0 wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

This wouldn't really diversify the metagame though. Instead of XF / 4or, you'd just see [XF / Loki], [XF / Hood], [4or / Hood], [4or, Loki], [4or, Cage] depending on who the featured character is. The 4*s are so much better than any 3* that the only 3*s that matter are the ones that synergize well with the 4*s, and I don't think that metagame is better enough than what we currently have for it to really be worth it. Honestly balance in PvP is probably impossible to get at this point, but they can probably at least do something with PvE to make it more diverse and interesting.

So you don't think they could potentially augment other 3*s to complement Fury, Elektra, and even DD to make them viable/competitive?

Nothing could help IW. That's understood.

Unfortunately no. XF and LadyThor are so above the power curve compared to Fury / Elektra / DD that those characters wouldn't stand a chance.

The question is, which is their target power level for a 4*? Strong enough to obsolete the 3* tier? Or just the high-end of the 3* range?

Because the 4* tier probably has the biggest imbalance range (from mandatory XF down to nigh-unusable IW). I am hoping they resolve that soon.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

This wouldn't really diversify the metagame though. Instead of XF / 4or, you'd just see [XF / Loki], [XF / Hood], [4or / Hood], [4or, Loki], [4or, Cage] depending on who the featured character is. The 4*s are so much better than any 3* that the only 3*s that matter are the ones that synergize well with the 4*s, and I don't think that metagame is better enough than what we currently have for it to really be worth it. Honestly balance in PvP is probably impossible to get at this point, but they can probably at least do something with PvE to make it more diverse and interesting.

I disagree.

Obviously, the top tier is always Xforce/4hor.

But if you limited it to XF + [insert character] or 4hor + [insert character], that opens up at least 10 new characters to the top tier; 3 star Thor, Loki,Dr Doom, Daken, Hood, Deadpool, Lcap and Magneto for Xforce and Blade, Patch, Black Panther, Hood (double), Daken (double) and Loki (Double) and Cage for 4hor.

That would do wonders for diversity in the upper tier where you normally just see 249 featured, 250+ Xforce, 250+ 4hor.

The only problem with this change is it would essentially obsolete Nick Fury haha.

simonsez

jackstar0 wrote:

I was thinking if the game were more about how to line up the right 3*s with a particular 4* there might be a little more variety in team composition and tweaking of 3*s to complement certain 4*s more.

No it wouldn't, because no matter what restrictions you place on people, there will always be one "best formation" and that's the one people will gravitate towards.

NorthernPolarity

onimus wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

This wouldn't really diversify the metagame though. Instead of XF / 4or, you'd just see [XF / Loki], [XF / Hood], [4or / Hood], [4or, Loki], [4or, Cage] depending on who the featured character is. The 4*s are so much better than any 3* that the only 3*s that matter are the ones that synergize well with the 4*s, and I don't think that metagame is better enough than what we currently have for it to really be worth it. Honestly balance in PvP is probably impossible to get at this point, but they can probably at least do something with PvE to make it more diverse and interesting.

I disagree.

Obviously, the top tier is always Xforce/4hor.

But if you limited it to XF + [insert character] or 4hor + [insert character], that opens up at least 10 new characters to the top tier; 3 star Thor, Loki,Dr Doom, Daken, Hood, Deadpool, Lcap and Magneto for Xforce and Blade, Patch, Black Panther, Hood (double), Daken (double) and Loki (Double) and Cage for 4hor.

That would do wonders for diversity in the upper tier where you normally just see 249 featured, 250+ Xforce, 250+ 4hor.

The only problem with this change is it would essentially obsolete Nick Fury haha.

This is optimistic - if you remember the XF team compositions during the Sentry era, every single PvP basically consisted of XF / Hood at high point totals because of how good Hood was on defense, and the other teams being tier 2, XF / CMags being best on offense, until you face other hood teams at which point it was safer to just go XF / Hood yourself because that was the fastest team composition. Going down the list for X-Force, every single character you've listed is either slower than C. Mags on offense, or weaker than Hood on defense (I distinctly remember preying on XF / Thor teams because of how easy they were to beat with XMags / XFood on offense).

Realistically the meta becomes:
XF / Cmags for offense
XF / Hood or XF / Loki on defense

Sure, the other options are serviceable with XForce, but if the past is any indicator of how the meta will shape up, characters like Daken and Doom just won't cut it at higher levels of play, which means that they aren't really top tier.

For 4or, all of the characters you've listed (Blade / Patch / Daken / BP) just aren't going to be as good as Cage / Loki / Hood. Cage is just so much better defensively while being almost as good as all of the other characters on offense that there's not going to be any reason to run LadyThor + (Blade/Patch/Daken/BP) when you can go LadyThor + Cage.

Like I said before, the meta would expand to just (XF / LadyThor) + (Loki / Hood / Cage) - there are very few cases where any other team is as good when you're pushing from 800+, making the switch probably not worth it.

Unknown

dr tinykittylove

jralbino wrote:

I agree. I love using my lvl 102 fury/thorina etc in random matches.

Unknown

MojoWild wrote:

My second thought was... might be a good idea.

Looking at your roster I understand your thought.

Chrono_Tata

The problem isn't with 4-star, it's just X-Force and Thoria, who are much better than any other 4-star characters and any other characters in the game. Trying to "fix" the game by limiting the number of 4-star characters allowed on a team would be like trying to fix pre-nerf Sentry by only allowing 1 3-star character on a team.

wymtime

As we are in the middle of a heroic PVE I will say this limiting a roster is a pain in the butt. If anything I can see them making the 4* characters the feature character more often. This could probably happen in the 2nd half of this year. PVP will always be dominated my the featured character plus top 2 pair in the game. PVE is where having a diverse 3* roster is helpful, and in PVE if they restricted the roster no 4* it would not be so bad. PVP progressions should probably be lowered so people can earn the 4* covers, but don't restrict rosters. I only have a leveled X-force and don't have enough 4Thor and I do just fine against Xforce 4Thor. If they beat me so be it I could have hopped more, or won more matches.

SnowcaTT

I think it would be fun as an off-season event: a PVP with total stars allowed = 8. So you could roster:

4/2/2
4/3/1
3/3/2

Or something like combined arms with 4 included, where you have to use one of any three different levels, perhaps 4* not buffed.

In-season the PVP goal is pretty apparent: get the best roster so you have the best chance to win. That means get the required character at 166, and get two 270's to support them.

jackstar0

I appreciate all the replies and the analysis.

This was basically a thought experiment, as I certainly have no ear of the devs or anything. But I'm trying to work out the problem of the meta without nerfing XF/4hor if it was possible. I feel like there ought to be a way to boost the other 4*s to make them viable. Elektra's damage negation is certainly interesting, but the AI tends to use her ineffectively... and I want Fury to be viable because he basically plays pretty fun... just inefficiently.

jackstar0

So would people just flip their **** if XF and 4hor were nerfed to bring them in line with other 4*s at this point? Or would they see the value in having a more robust game? I'm assuming the former.