Hi guys! You must see this, this is so sick!

GothicKratos

simonsez wrote:

GothicKratos wrote:

Just to play Devil's Advocate, the average player in the playerbase doesn't know how all of that works, and probably would be demoralized by seeing somebody with nearly 5k points at the top of their bracket.

I guess ignorance isn't bliss after all

too true.

Dauthi

GothicKratos wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

His reaction is the point: whether it is right or wrong, it is demoralizing for everyone else.

I disagree. I'm looking at my leaderboard (top 10 will be over 2k) and I'm thinking, great, I can get 50 point targets all day. And it's not just the number of people with high scores, it's the number of hops the top guys have to do. Do you realize how much time these guys have to spend unshielded? It's not like I'm harboring any delusions of a top 5 finish, so if something is making it easier for me to score points, I'm glad, not demoralized.

Just to play Devil's Advocate, the average player in the playerbase doesn't know how all of that works, and probably would be demoralized by seeing somebody with nearly 5k points at the top of their bracket.

You beat me to it.

This is exactly what I was referencing to. Normal players don't know how or why you get 5000 points (probably their entire season total) in one event. It is absolutely ridiculous and demoralizing. It helps us all, but only us that have the knowledge in the forums to understand why and how. For the other 90% it possibly encourages quitting, as there is seemingly no way to compete with this.

That mentality is what inspired this post to begin with.

Unknown

Dauthi wrote:

GothicKratos wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

His reaction is the point: whether it is right or wrong, it is demoralizing for everyone else.

I disagree. I'm looking at my leaderboard (top 10 will be over 2k) and I'm thinking, great, I can get 50 point targets all day. And it's not just the number of people with high scores, it's the number of hops the top guys have to do. Do you realize how much time these guys have to spend unshielded? It's not like I'm harboring any delusions of a top 5 finish, so if something is making it easier for me to score points, I'm glad, not demoralized.

Just to play Devil's Advocate, the average player in the playerbase doesn't know how all of that works, and probably would be demoralized by seeing somebody with nearly 5k points at the top of their bracket.

You beat me to it.

This is exactly what I was referencing to. Normal players don't know how or why you get 5000 points (probably their entire season total) in one event. It is absolutely ridiculous and demoralizing. It helps us all, but only us that have the knowledge in the forums to understand why and how. For the other 90% it possibly encourages quitting, as there is seemingly no way to compete with this.

That mentality is what inspired this post to begin with.

How's that any different from any PvE event where someone think their 100K score is pretty good and look up #1 and found someone with 300K there? For PvP, if you're in the top 100 range whether the #1 is at 1000 or 10000 makes almost no difference to you. Sure this run up of score exposes the underlying flaw of the system but if someone's going to get discouraged at seeing big numbers that guy would never have made it past any PvE event. I don't think these 6K scores add anything to the community but they definitely don't take anything away, either.

scottee

Phantron wrote:

How's that any different from any PvE event where someone think their 100K score is pretty good and look up #1 and found someone with 300K there? For PvP, if you're in the top 100 range whether the #1 is at 1000 or 10000 makes almost no difference to you. Sure this run up of score exposes the underlying flaw of the system but if someone's going to get discouraged at seeing big numbers that guy would never have made it past any PvE event. I don't think these 6K scores add anything to the community but they definitely don't take anything away, either.

Is it really that hard to imagine? In PVE, you see a gigantic score and think, "That guy played way more than me." When you see it in PVP, you think, "Even if I played constantly, I'd keep getting attacked. That score seems impossible!"

simonsez

scottee wrote:

When you see it in PVP, you think, "Even if I played constantly, I'd keep getting attacked. That score seems impossible!"

Unless someone never heard of shields, why would they think this?

scottee

simonsez wrote:

scottee wrote:

When you see it in PVP, you think, "Even if I played constantly, I'd keep getting attacked. That score seems impossible!"

Unless someone never heard of shields, why would they think this?

You have to imagine from the perspective of a new player. Open Versus event for the first time. Try some matches. See score list.

My brother didn't know how shields worked until 3 months into the game. Mostly because he didn't want to spend HP on anything, so he never tried it.

SnowcaTT

simonsez wrote:

scottee wrote:

When you see it in PVP, you think, "Even if I played constantly, I'd keep getting attacked. That score seems impossible!"

Unless someone never heard of shields, why would they think this?

I think when you are starting, the concept of "shield hopping" would be foreign as you wouldn't need to and couldn't afford to.

It also can be difficult to understand how your roster or score can be worth anything. I'm always slightly surprised when I take my transition team to 300 and wait, only to be hit by some 270's passing by. I would think there would be 94's easily found that would be worth as much (if not more) points, and be a slightly easier/faster play.

I mentioned a month back one way to "fix" MMR is simply don't make teams (I think I said average level of their top 5 leveled characters) visible to higher average level teams at certain levels. No reason I should see 1* teams once I'm above 200 - and I don't. But similarly, no reason 270's should see me until I break beyond some level (maybe 400 for 94 average, 500 for 117 average (9 covers 3*), 600 for anyone [seems to be what 600 is now, probably should have another tier]. That might help a little specifically for folks who have transitioned to 2* - they suddenly get thrown mostly into transition land immediately and come here wondering why they see so many higher level teams.

Gratz to the 5K/6K folks for getting to where they can with the rules that currently exist, good to see the highest push possible while it's still possible.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

simonsez wrote:

scottee wrote:

When you see it in PVP, you think, "Even if I played constantly, I'd keep getting attacked. That score seems impossible!"

Unless someone never heard of shields, why would they think this?

You have to imagine from the perspective of a new player. Open Versus event for the first time. Try some matches. See score list.

My brother didn't know how shields worked until 3 months into the game. Mostly because he didn't want to spend HP on anything, so he never tried it.

I'd say that's because the shield metagame is not something that'd be obvious by just looking at the mechanics, and the game itself is fairly lacking in documentation. Once you shielded a few times it should be fairly obvious that given enough shields, PvP rating is something you can accumulate over time.

simonsez

scottee wrote:

You have to imagine from the perspective of a new player.

Ok, so if we ARE talking about new players who don't even know about shields yet, what's probably more likely to happen is that they play for a while, and then quickly get to a point where they don't have any beatable opponents. So maybe they think "that guy with 6k must have some pretty amazing characters".

simonsez

SnowcaTT wrote:

But similarly, no reason 270's should see me until I break beyond some level

The only problem with this is that 270s shouldn't have to face each other exclusively right from the initial climb. The game already penalizes success in so many ways as it is, turning every PvP into a gauntlet would instantly make me lose interest.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

scottee wrote:

You have to imagine from the perspective of a new player.

Ok, so if we ARE talking about new players who don't even know about shields yet, what's probably more likely to happen is that they play for a while, and then quickly get to a point where they don't have any beatable opponents. So maybe they think "that guy with 6k must have some pretty amazing characters".

They're probably going to think 'these guys must be cheaters'. And while that would be pretty bad for the game, it's not the player's fault for doing completely legitmate things may look like cheating.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

simonsez wrote:

scottee wrote:

When you see it in PVP, you think, "Even if I played constantly, I'd keep getting attacked. That score seems impossible!"

Unless someone never heard of shields, why would they think this?

You have to imagine from the perspective of a new player. Open Versus event for the first time. Try some matches. See score list.

My brother didn't know how shields worked until 3 months into the game. Mostly because he didn't want to spend HP on anything, so he never tried it.

Sharding already addresses this. New players playing PvP "for the first time" will never see a score that high.

scottee

gobstopper wrote:

scottee wrote:

simonsez wrote:

scottee wrote:

When you see it in PVP, you think, "Even if I played constantly, I'd keep getting attacked. That score seems impossible!"

Unless someone never heard of shields, why would they think this?

You have to imagine from the perspective of a new player. Open Versus event for the first time. Try some matches. See score list.

My brother didn't know how shields worked until 3 months into the game. Mostly because he didn't want to spend HP on anything, so he never tried it.

Sharding already addresses this. New players playing PvP "for the first time" will never see a score that high.

Last I heard, the sharding didn't draw a hard line. It only made it more likely to be in an easier shard. So new players still get put in regular shards, and top players still get placed in easy shards. Just with less frequency.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

gobstopper wrote:

scottee wrote:

You have to imagine from the perspective of a new player. Open Versus event for the first time. Try some matches. See score list.

My brother didn't know how shields worked until 3 months into the game. Mostly because he didn't want to spend HP on anything, so he never tried it.

Sharding already addresses this. New players playing PvP "for the first time" will never see a score that high.

Last I heard, the sharding didn't draw a hard line. It only made it more likely to be in an easier shard. So new players still get put in regular shards, and top players still get placed in easy shards. Just with less frequency.

Based on my experience with my beginner alt, it is more clear cut than you think.

ViralCore

simonsez wrote:

scottee wrote:

When you see it in PVP, you think, "Even if I played constantly, I'd keep getting attacked. That score seems impossible!"

Unless someone never heard of shields, why would they think this?

Because for some it was completely unfathomable. Seasoned players, who all know what shield hopping is, reported me as a cheater as soon as I hit 3k.

I know a lot of people think we're idiots for hitting 6k (our original intent was just 4k) but it was a super fun and well worth the time & money! The team work was amazing, we were completely in sync, it was really a thing of beauty.

Those who have climbed past the 1k mark already know how challenging it is to maintain your score and the excitement you get when you unshield...

"Will I be sniped? Will I be sniped?!? God, I hope I'm not sniped!!! Should I hit another node? Yes. Why, oh why did I unshield??? Dammit I'm going to get sniped. OMG, I wasn't sniped. Shield! SHELD!!!"

... magnify that with every additional 1k. So thank you to those who: were cheering us on; queued us and waited long enough for us to complete our hops; were hating on us which gave us the desire to push further.

As a side note, we probably wouldn't have considered such a feat if the shields were staying as is.

Dauthi

Phantron wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

You beat me to it.

This is exactly what I was referencing to. Normal players don't know how or why you get 5000 points (probably their entire season total) in one event. It is absolutely ridiculous and demoralizing. It helps us all, but only us that have the knowledge in the forums to understand why and how. For the other 90% it possibly encourages quitting, as there is seemingly no way to compete with this.

That mentality is what inspired this post to begin with.

How's that any different from any PvE event where someone think their 100K score is pretty good and look up #1 and found someone with 300K there? For PvP, if you're in the top 100 range whether the #1 is at 1000 or 10000 makes almost no difference to you. Sure this run up of score exposes the underlying flaw of the system but if someone's going to get discouraged at seeing big numbers that guy would never have made it past any PvE event. I don't think these 6K scores add anything to the community but they definitely don't take anything away, either.

I won't reiterate what others have already said, but look at that picture he posted: 1st and 2nd 5000+ points, 3rd 800. If I were a new player I would assume cheating probably, because that is a ridiculous gap. I'm curious if the nerf to shields is in part to new/non-forum players reporting these people.

stevenbrule

Unpopular opinion: limits on shield hopping would probably help this lopsidedness.

Unknown

stevenbrule wrote:

Unpopular opinion: limits on shield hopping would probably help this lopsidedness.

It does "help" by making it a lot more costly and difficult to achieve the high scores. But at the same time it hurts the 99% of the playerbase trying to hit the higher progressions by making it more difficult to break free from the horde and more difficult to find high value targets. Basically by constricting the range of scores you are forcibly grouping more people together, and many players will be perpetually stuck between 600-900 fighting lots of battles but going nowhere. And it hurts F2P users the most, since they can't afford to keep buying the more expensive shields and/or health packs.