negative goodwill for a nerf on rag

Unknown

totally agree with your point about forewarn.

as a matter of fact , without this forewarn, the profit of a company is higher. it reminds me about the experience of leh*** brothers toxic product. they did the cost benefit analysis of this strategy and the result is :benefit is higher.

Unknown

jozier wrote:

There are plenty of actual lawyers here. There is zero legal basis for a suit and anyone still even mentioning lawsuits or legal action is an utter moron.

Generally speaking virtual goods have been roughly swept under the argument of 'everything virtual is worthless so obviously nobody was actually harmed'. This argument is not as ironclad as the EULA would like you to believe it is. I mean right now you can probably do something like have a 50% off HP sale and then just remove all HP from the economy, and you can make an argument that nothing wrong happened since Hero Points have no value. In fact there are F2Ps that basically do this. While the argument over virtual goods in general can be argued, I do hope the victory for consumer comes from winning over far more dubious practices I've seen in plenty of other games, than having a victory coming from a Ragnarok nerf.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

jozier wrote:

There are plenty of actual lawyers here. There is zero legal basis for a suit and anyone still even mentioning lawsuits or legal action is an utter moron.

Generally speaking virtual goods have been roughly swept under the argument of 'everything virtual is worthless so obviously nobody was actually harmed'. This argument is not as ironclad as the EULA would like you to believe it is. I mean right now you can probably do something like have a 50% off HP sale and then just remove all HP from the economy, and you can make an argument that nothing wrong happened since Hero Points have no value. In fact there are F2Ps that basically do this. While the argument over virtual goods in general can be argued, I do hope the victory for consumer comes from winning over far more dubious practices I've seen in plenty of other games, than having a victory coming from a Ragnarok nerf.

You would maybe (and not actually) have an argument if purchases were directly of Ragnarok. People buy ISO and HP. They get ISO and HP. That's the end of the story. That's literally all there is to it.

Unknown

of course d3 does not have any liability for any loss incurred by this nerf . they have the right to nerf any character. my son told me that it is not the first case he faced in the game world. he also mentioned that the business strategy they are using is not a good one.

itstime1234

So now you take your business acumen from your child.

I do feel your pain in spending money to have rags all lined up but that was your choice. This isn't the first time a nerf has happened and it won't be the last. Go look at prior topics and many ppl were saying rags would get nerfed very shortly and that is what happened. Move on try new characters enjoy the game.

Unknown

For me, it's really one of the "Laws" of MMOs:

If some element of the game (character, class, trade good, gear set, talent spec, whatever) could arguably be tweaked to balance gameplay, even slightly, consider that as a great big billboard with flashing lights and confetti reading "THIS IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE. IF IT'S GOLD-PLATED AWESOME TODAY, IT MIGHT BE DEMOTED TO MOLDY CRUST ON A PILE OF DOO DOO TOMORROW. AND VICE VERSA."

I'm no law expert, you see, but I am enough of an MMO expert to know this.

Ideally, yes, if a character is considered slightly OP, then it should get only slightly nerfed. But at the same time, if people get good enough at minmaxing strategies and whatnot, then an A++ character might get nerfed slightly to A (i.e. not bad), but then all the best players ditch it for the A+ character, word gets out, *everyone* switches to the A+, and that A character may as well be an F. Such is life in the Internet age.

Given this, my strategy in any MMO is to hedge my bets. If I pay money, I'm paying for a little entertainment for the evening. I'll never invest money as if it's truly competitive, because this game (like many) is not, really; D3 is selling entertainment to players, and therefore keeping them playing, not turning them into champion gem matchers to play on TV and charge tickets to see. (If this were Starcraft and we were in South Korea, *then* I'd get pissed. )

Unknown

As a law student (second year U of Manitoba), i have no problem believing that there are actual lawyers on this forum, playing this game. I am canadian and our courts are a bit different then the US, but the laws on contracts are fairly similar. I would also agree that D3 has done nothing legally wrong. D3 is also a third party, your money for HP purchases went to apple and then D3 got whatever was left after apple takes their cut.

As was mentioned before, you purchased HP and you got it. The fact that you spent a currency on something you expected to receive and that something you received was not as expected actually does give you an argument. Keep in mind that I am referring to your purchase of rag covers with HP. You expected the rag covers to maintain their description, but they did not. Kind of like buying a lemon car. The doctrine of caveat emptor would unfortunately probably kick in. Everyone knows the game says preview at the loading screen at that it is thus a work in progress. I could see someone arguing that they did not read the terms of service and thus they had not actually agreed to it, but it would be hard to argue that you never noticed the preview notice on the loading screen.

At the end of the day, if the court were to rule in your favour (unlikely for my reasons and my learned friends before me) I can only see the court awarding a return of the currency, that is the HP. Plus the clerk (because this is most definitely small claims court) would be annoyed at you wasting his or her time.

Also D3 wouldn't have to bother giving you the HP unless you took the time to get an enforcement order... Good luck getting the police to help with that Lol.

BigMao

In terms of getting a practical result, I think it's simple. D3 needs to restore some level of trust, or they've lost customers and players. I think that will be motivation enough, and the responses that I got so far from D3PCS are hopeful.

Unknown

Saint Matthew wrote:

Colonel Sandurz: It's Megamaid! She's gone from suck to blow!

My favorite quote was always: "I see your schwartz is as big as mine....". ...is Mel brooks dead yet? Off to google I guess.

Unknown

Guessing OP didn't see the big ol "PREVIEW" on the title screen.

Everything is bound to change and that's what you get for spending money to exploit the game.

OnesOwnGrief

Isn't this game still considered a work in progress, beta, or whatever you want to call it? Plenty of games run under beta so long with cash items but people still drop money on it. Don't think anyone will get very fast in terms of a lawsuit or a refund for that matter. Actually, the hell we on about again?

Unknown

Beta, Preview, Release, Release version 8 after the company goes IPO, doesn't matter. It's a game where play balance is involved, and therefore, as I said above, everything is up for change.

Moreover, whatever changes, may change again. It's always possible to go overboard when trying to balance something, resulting in a retraction or a smaller tweak in the other direction, etc.

About all you can rely on in MPQ is that it's going to be a match-3 game using Marvel characters for story content. (And that when you buy HP or ISO, it'll be at the stated price on the window with the Confirm button.)

Unknown

This has become a very interesting discussion. I'm not a law professional and there are several here who are so I'm glad they voiced their expertise. My background and years of knowledge is in business management, sales and customer service for a very large oil company. In our business if something similar to this happened with one of our products or services we would be out of business as we don't have the same protection with "preview", "beta", or anything that can be subject to change. For example I cannot sell you 400 gallons of medium grade fuel and halfway switch that out for low grade and not be in the wrong. There are alot of similarities as well as differences in both industries. What I am focusing on is how that leaves the customer feeling shaken and whether or not that customer will continue to purchase or move to another supplier. My business moves into full damage control if something similar to this happens and what we do immediately is establish customer confidence asap through communications as fast and accurately as possible. Even a personal call telling the customer that we don't have the answers but are working on it and promise to have another contact in 24 hours is far better than being left in the dark. Now I have never managed an online application based business model and I assume that by nature it is different. I do still believe though that customer service should have done better in communication and also in at least offering the notion that a solution is being looked at. Timing is everything. I received a PM at a later date last night which said they are looking into something but....hmm...have you ever been so upset that it doesn't matter if its made right at a later date just because it came so late? I think some players here felt that way. It can be argued that "good riddance! They were awful players and I'm glad to see them leave!" but that sort of mentality reflects poorly if held by the developers and if held by a fellow player also reflects badly upon that individual as being calloused and patronizing.

With this all said...I find this as an excellent exercise in how to approach customer service, product release as well as anticipating and responding to customer feedback. This has been a good "what to do" and "what not to do"....I hope others have found this lesson just as useful even if you aren't in business.

Unknown

Your analogy is terrible. To fit, it would be akin to offering you 50000 ISO for 50 dollars but only giving you 30000. That's what your analogy is getting at, and that's not what happened.

Unknown

might be terrible but i'm not terribly creative =(

Unknown

Hahahaha all you rag lovers can go suck eggs!

1. Paying to win is cheating
2. You bankers f*cked up the economy in the first place.

My sympathy is non-existent! Well done D3P for listening to the fans. Rag was a big hairy bumhole!
Peace!

Unknown

HulkSmash wrote:

Hahahaha all you rag lovers can go suck eggs!

1. Paying to win is cheating
2. You bankers f*cked up the economy in the first place.

My sympathy is non-existent! Well done D3P for listening to the fans. Rag was a big hairy bumhole!
Peace!

Supporting the game I enjoy is cheating, eh? Child.

Unknown

_fulu_ wrote:

HulkSmash wrote:

Hahahaha all you rag lovers can go suck eggs!

1. Paying to win is cheating
2. You bankers f*cked up the economy in the first place.

My sympathy is non-existent! Well done D3P for listening to the fans. Rag was a big hairy bumhole!
Peace!

Supporting the game I enjoy is cheating, eh? Child.

Through my Amiga, SNES, megadrive, PS1, Dreamcast, PC, Xbox & 360 history i never had to pay once to complete a game and you dont with this! If youre supporting the game then stop moaning like lil **** n just play!

BigMao

HulkSmash wrote:

Hahahaha all you rag lovers can go suck eggs!

1. Paying to win is cheating
2. You bankers f*cked up the economy in the first place.

My sympathy is non-existent! Well done D3P for listening to the fans. Rag was a big hairy bumhole!
Peace!

I don't need your sympathy, but if not for the paying customers then this game would not exist. Think about that, if you've got the mental capacity.

Unknown

You make yourselves out to be a charitable bunch with your "support" but the fact is none of you put money into a donations pot. You saw an exploit in Rag's 2red ap ability and 'invested' in yourselves to gain an advantage over the competition then you cry why the playing field is levelled. The majority had voiced their concerns for months and I'm sure the game lost more players who didn't own a rag due to not being able to compete than the 'cheaters' who blew their money on rags red so they could end their matches before they even start. The hulk event had space for 500k players and I think it hit about 70k max which indicates there is not nearly the numbers playing that D3P want.
Level the playing field = a more attractive game.
An attractive game = more players join
(If they join and come up against endless unbeatable Rags they leave)
If they can beat Rags the same as every other character they stay and play and spend money on all characters equally instead of just rag's red!
Its simple business you cretin!