New 4*s as Essentials

Raffoon

Seriously, why should the top 50 from the previous PVE event get a substantial advantage in the next one?

Or I guess you could buy a 42 pack for 80 US dollars and hope you're not one of the 1/4 people who don't get the featured 4 star from the 42 pack? (Last I'd calculated was when Fury was coming out, and it was 75.28% chance of getting him in a 42 pack)

Why is this a thing?

Luckily the rewards aren't that great this time around, but.... seriously WHY is this a thing?

Beast1970

Why can't everyone just finish in first place?!?

Unknown

Normally the top 150 gets a significant benefit when a new 3* is released. Given how brutal the competition for 4* is, I don't think offering a similar advantage to a small % of guys who managed to tough out the competition is a bad thing. There hasn't been any recurring 4* as featured character in recent memory so a one time bonus for surviving the grind is quite reasonable. It's not like this event has 5 Thor 4* covers for top 50 or anything crazy. It's a pretty normal event and I plan to take it easy even though I have Elektra and if someone wants to make something out of Elektra that's their right to do so.

fmftint

Get use to it, they've already said they plan to release a new character every 2 weeks And a lot being 4*

Raffoon

Beast1970 wrote:

Why can't everyone just finish in first place?!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqz53d-fYL8

Oops, you did that ^

How about people who got the 4* character get to enjoy having access to another buffed character for the event, rather than having access to extra nodes that others can't play?

Winning because you have a better team and maximize your play is one thing. Winning because you're earning extra points every clear is just silly.

Taganov

Seriously, the ESSENTIAL 4* thing needs to go. Feature it sure, but essential? I much prefer making different characters essential in different subs.

GothicKratos

I feel like having one node a "normal" character and one node a 4* is not the worst compromise in the world.

Full disclosure: The only 4* I own is a partially covered X-Force.

Unknown

Agree on OP.
Dunno how it works in the background (code),but i assume this mechanism (pve flag 0 reward = pve flag 1 essentials) already attached in the system.
Meaning, to change it, they have to rewrite the code and it'll took time to develop, analyze impact, testing, deploy, etc.
Well, in general, rewrite potentially raising bugs or even worse break the system (depends on design n code complexity tho).

Again, just assumption

OnesOwnGrief

This would have been a great time to actually add a 4* to the progression rewards...

avs962

GothicKratos wrote:

I feel like having one node a "normal" character and one node a 4* is not the worst compromise in the world.

Full disclosure: The only 4* I own is a partially covered X-Force.

I agree. It's a bummer that I can't hit that last node because I wanted to enjoy my life last week, but I can still hit one essential node. So I got that going for me, which is nice.

Beast1970

Raffoon wrote:

Beast1970 wrote:

Why can't everyone just finish in first place?!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqz53d-fYL8

Oops, you did that ^

How about people who got the 4* character get to enjoy having access to another buffed character for the event, rather than having access to extra nodes that others can't play?

Winning because you have a better team and maximize your play is one thing. Winning because you're earning extra points every clear is just silly.

Not exactly that, but it WAS an overreaction on my part, only based slightly on this post. I had mentally lumped this in with a group of recent posts that basically state it is unfair that people with more developed rosters, and more time invested, finish better than those newer to the game. These posts have ranged from discussing the difficulty in transition from 2* to 3*, which I agree with, to blatantly stating an entitlement for the top tier rewards simply for logging in, and about all shades in-between.

Having said that, I'll be more clear in my position to this specific post. This is no different IN THEORY to the way PvE is already run, just different in level (and not really, but I'll get there). Currently you earn extra points every clear for having the essential character. Every character released has been the essential in the following PvE, but normally this is a 3* character. This is the basis for my statement that this action is no different in theory.

When Thoress was released, she was also an essential character in the following PvE, this is why I say this isn't new either. If I remember correctly, the same was done with Fury, and I definitely remember having to use IW in PvE after she was released.

As someone else mentioned, there IS a big difference in the top 50 for this case, and top 150 for the normal 3*, to which I would answer, if the number with the advantage is so small, why worry about it? And if that isn't the point, then why aren't we up in arms about this structure for every PvE essential character?

I would like to say that anything that would replace the benefit of having the new character would be met similarly with outrage from someone else, even if it was as simple as an extra buff. Nothing will ever make everyone happy, but this situation isn't a mistake, or something new D3 has done, it is the same status quo as the previous releases.

Unknown

My problem with 4* as essentials right after release is two-fold:

1. I'm fine with keeping 4* rare, so I get the top 50, but I think new character should always get a top 100 alliance cover. Being 4* AND new brings a lot of the top PvP alliances who normally play PvE casually into a crazy grind fest. This is a case of rich getting richer because is any node really deadly to someone running X-Force/Goddess? I've got lots of respect for SHIELD, X-Men, Django, and the 5 Deadlys, but top 50 really squeezes all the other alliances out of the mix, and then hurts them again next event.

2. Prodigal Sun had a few nodes where I had the option of a loaner Sentry. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of an essential?

Don't get wrong, I think it's fine for 4* to be essential, but not so soon after release. Either add them as a progression reward (grinders like myself easily double the last progression) or give us a loaner for a one-time play. There's nothing like having an essential character open up a bunch of non-essential nodes that really feels like a double penalty.

kensterr

Raffoon wrote:

:evil:

Seriously, why should the top 50 from the previous PVE event get a substantial advantage in the next one?

Or I guess you could buy a 42 pack for 80 US dollars and hope you're not one of the 1/4 people who don't get the featured 4 star from the 42 pack? (Last I'd calculated was when Fury was coming out, and it was 75.28% chance of getting him in a 42 pack)

Why is this a thing?

Luckily the rewards aren't that great this time around, but.... seriously WHY is this a thing?

Cos I spent lots of HP buying boosts just to clear hard and deadly nodes (some level 395) and get little sleep and work done just to grind every 3 hours. D3 is rewarding hardcore addicts and idiots like me.

Raffoon

Beast1970 wrote:

Raffoon wrote:

Beast1970 wrote:

Why can't everyone just finish in first place?!?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqz53d-fYL8

Oops, you did that ^

How about people who got the 4* character get to enjoy having access to another buffed character for the event, rather than having access to extra nodes that others can't play?

Winning because you have a better team and maximize your play is one thing. Winning because you're earning extra points every clear is just silly.

Not exactly that, but it WAS an overreaction on my part, only based slightly on this post. I had mentally lumped this in with a group of recent posts that basically state it is unfair that people with more developed rosters, and more time invested, finish better than those newer to the game. These posts have ranged from discussing the difficulty in transition from 2* to 3*, which I agree with, to blatantly stating an entitlement for the top tier rewards simply for logging in, and about all shades in-between.

Having said that, I'll be more clear in my position to this specific post. This is no different IN THEORY to the way PvE is already run, just different in level (and not really, but I'll get there). Currently you earn extra points every clear for having the essential character. Every character released has been the essential in the following PvE, but normally this is a 3* character. This is the basis for my statement that this action is no different in theory.

When Thoress was released, she was also an essential character in the following PvE, this is why I say this isn't new either. If I remember correctly, the same was done with Fury, and I definitely remember having to use IW in PvE after she was released.

As someone else mentioned, there IS a big difference in the top 50 for this case, and top 150 for the normal 3*, to which I would answer, if the number with the advantage is so small, why worry about it? And if that isn't the point, then why aren't we up in arms about this structure for every PvE essential character?

I would like to say that anything that would replace the benefit of having the new character would be met similarly with outrage from someone else, even if it was as simple as an extra buff. Nothing will ever make everyone happy, but this situation isn't a mistake, or something new D3 has done, it is the same status quo as the previous releases.

Thanks for the constructive followup. I'll admit my OP didn't necessarily have the best tone to it or offer a whole lot of nuance, so I can see where you were coming from to a degree.

I'll definitely agree that what they're doing this time around isn't any different than previous 4* releases. I'll also agree that what they do with 4*s follows the same pattern/theory as what they do with 3*s. Honestly though, I think that we SHOULD be up in arms about this, regardless of whether it's a 3* or a 4*. The difference here is that having it occur so that a smaller population gains the access to the essential nodes (as with 4*s) highlights and magnifies the issues that already exist in the system enough that I'm motivated to post about it this time around

So here's an idea to give a substantial benefit to people who've earned the new character without completely hamstringing those that don't have it. I also think this would have the effect of increasing the FUN aspects of new characters:
-First off, dump essential nodes completely.
-Next, increase the level buffs to characters that would otherwise have been essential.
-Lastly, add a temporary buff to the abilities those characters as well. I'm thinking a temporary cover-level buff here. So for example, that Elektra that you have 1/0/0 in might act as though she's 3/2/2 or 4/3/3 or some other number when used in the featured event.

Think about it. Who actually has fun with Essential nodes that use new characters?
-Are the people that have gotten covers jumping for joy that they get to use their new barely covered character with a moderate level boost? Ooh boy, watch out for that single covered level 130 attack you can cast! Most characters don't really start to shine until they have 3-5 covers in their abilities. Bonus side effect, people would get to try out the character, so they'd be more likely to buy (see: 4* Thor previews)
-We know that the other 85-95% of people (depending on 3*/4*) who didn't get the cover sure aren't having fun with the Essential concept.

The biggest counterargument I can see is that D3 will make less money from 42 packs that people buy to try and get the Essential character. But:
A) Are that many people really buying 42 packs in that situation?
Giving a preview of the character at close to full strength instead of forcing you to use them underpowered with 1-3 covers will make people want to cover the character. More covers = more money!

That's just one idea for how to improve it, though. Even if that's not the right solution, I think that most people would be overjoyed to see Essential nodes go away.