How to fix the roster slot prices

Phaserhawk

The Q&A left me more confused than before, but the gist I got out of the roster issuse was that Demurige has no clue what to do, here's 2 fixes, do 1 or both

1.) Cap the roster slot prices so they don't exponential grow

2.) Dont allow covers to expire

Not allowing covers to expire would be the absolute simplest fix both programming wise and implementation wise. It would still all D3 to charge for rosters (although the prices really need to be reigned in at the higher levels) but a player would still be able to collect covers of high level characters, they just can't use them. Later they can develop a sorting of covers so you could put the ones you want into a "cannot sell pile" vs. covers you don't care about and do sell, but in the meantime just get rid of that expiration timer, seriously why should they expire? It also gives players a reason to save up HP that doesn't seem like a waste

GrumpySmurf1002

Not allowing covers to expire opens the door for the vets to have semi-permanent re-specing options, which I'm pretty sure they have said they don't want to make available as an option (along with leveling down). Not to mention everyone through the transition would just start hoarding whatever IW covers they get their hands on in the hopes she's funbalanced to XForce levels, where they'll just build 3 of 'em with the hoarded covers.

The premise is sound, but it should be limited to characters that you don't currently have on the roster. The system already identifies that the cover is on your roster, so it should in theory not require a ton of code. In simplistic terms: If cover on roster, set expiration timer, else no.

JamieMadrox

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Not allowing covers to expire opens the door for the vets to have semi-permanent re-specing options, which I'm pretty sure they have said they don't want to make available as an option (along with leveling down). Not to mention everyone through the transition would just start hoarding whatever IW covers they get their hands on in the hopes she's funbalanced to XForce levels, where they'll just build 3 of 'em with the hoarded covers.

The premise is sound, but it should be limited to characters that you don't currently have on the roster. The system already identifies that the cover is on your roster, so it should in theory not require a ton of code. In simplistic terms: If cover on roster, set expiration timer, else no.

The only problem with that argument (by them, not you) is that tokens never expire, but covers do. So you can horde your tokens for as long as you want (I know people with hundreds of heroics) and just start opening them when you need a cover. So why not make tokens expire after a week just like covers?

wymtime

I think just caping the cost of roster slots is the way to go. Having roster slots progress up to 500-600 HP would still make 1*-2* players make tough choices, but then once players start getting into 3* land allow them to start using some HP on covers. This is the real issue with roster slots especially for FTP players. FTP players who can place well can afford the roster slots, but then cannot afford to buy many covers, and will have to sacrafice there 2* roster if they want to do so.

SnowcaTT

wymtime wrote:

I think just caping the cost of roster slots is the way to go. Having roster slots progress up to 500-600 HP would still make 1*-2* players make tough choices, but then once players start getting into 3* land allow them to start using some HP on covers. This is the real issue with roster slots especially for FTP players. FTP players who can place well can afford the roster slots, but then cannot afford to buy many covers, and will have to sacrafice there 2* roster if they want to do so.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes (and I'll keep agreeing with or posting the 'cap the roster slot at some XP' until it happens).

Spoit

wymtime wrote:

I think just caping the cost of roster slots is the way to go. Having roster slots progress up to 500-600 HP would still make 1*-2* players make tough choices, but then once players start getting into 3* land allow them to start using some HP on covers. This is the real issue with roster slots especially for FTP players. FTP players who can place well can afford the roster slots, but then cannot afford to buy many covers, and will have to sacrafice there 2* roster if they want to do so.

Yes, and quite frankly, I dunno how that never came up in the discussion about any changes making it too easy for 2*s. Especially since that's what a number of the questions were suggesting as a solution

Nonce Equitaur 2

I posted a suggestion -- Give players a free 10-slot Bench section in the Roster.

Characters in the Bench area could not be used in events. They can't be loaned. They are benched. Benched characters are able to get new covers and ISO, and that's it.

Each time a roster slot is purchased, characters can be moved off the bench.

For 50 HP, any number of characters can be moved onto the Bench.
For 50 HP, one character can be moved from the Bench into an existing Roster slot.

Bench slots can be expanded at a third of the cost of the Active Roster slots.

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

I posted a suggestion -- Give players a free 10-slot Bench section in the Roster.

Characters in the Bench area could not be used in events. They can't be loaned. They are benched. Benched characters are able to get new covers and ISO, and that's it.

Each time a roster slot is purchased, characters can be moved off the bench.

For 50 HP, any number of characters can be moved onto the Bench.
For 50 HP, one character can be moved from the Bench into an existing Roster slot.

Bench slots can be expanded at a third of the cost of the Active Roster slots.

It'd be better than what we have now, but a problem is that it'd create this huge perception of the game being pay to win. People would ask, why do I have to pay to use characters I've already recruited? Why is D3 charging me to switch characters? eg taking essential characters off the bench This is even worse than other P2P games!

Nonce Equitaur 2

daibar wrote:

It'd be better than what we have now, but a problem is that it'd create this huge perception of the game being pay to win. People would ask, why do I have to pay to use characters I've already recruited? Why is D3 charging me to switch characters? eg taking essential characters off the bench This is even worse than other P2P games!

Probably best not to allow ISO spending or cover purchasing for benched characters. That way, all characters on the Bench would essentially be gifts from D3. Also, the only way characters can go to the Bench is for the players to put them there.

One huge problem I see with transitioning players is non-viable characters. This might be 7 of their slots:








And then they get in an event. Should they buy three more roster slots so they can add one more non-viable character? Or do they sell one of the non-viable characters and pray that they don't suddenly get more covers for them?

With a Bench area, they could put all of their non-viable characters into a holding area. As they start becoming viable, they can join the active roster.

Phaserhawk

While I like your idea it would be more complicated to implement ASAP. It would be extremely simple to stop timer expirations on covers or to change the roster slot hp requirement, any of those would take little to no programing time and could probably be done in a few hours, the fact they don't do something that simple to solve a quickly growing problem makes me question their motives.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

While I like your idea it would be more complicated to implement ASAP. It would be extremely simple to stop timer expirations on covers or to change the roster slot hp requirement, any of those would take little to no programming time and could probably be done in a few hours, the fact they don't do something that simple to solve a quickly growing problem makes me question their motives.

While I agree changing roster slot hp is an easy fix, eliminating cover expirations causes the problem of having to deal with thousands of covers in an inventory at once. It's an easy fix, but has bigger consequences. However, they probably do a ton of research to figure out what their hp price points should be.

Their motives are clear as glass. Get people to buy hp or feel the pain of having to give up characters. I don't think it's that complicated.

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

daibar wrote:

It'd be better than what we have now, but a problem is that it'd create this huge perception of the game being pay to win. People would ask, why do I have to pay to use characters I've already recruited? Why is D3 charging me to switch characters? eg taking essential characters off the bench This is even worse than other P2P games!

Probably best not to allow ISO spending or cover purchasing for benched characters. That way, all characters on the Bench would essentially be gifts from D3. Also, the only way characters can go to the Bench is for the players to put them there.

One huge problem I see with transitioning players is non-viable characters. This might be 7 of their slots:








And then they get in an event. Should they buy three more roster slots so they can add one more non-viable character? Or do they sell one of the non-viable characters and pray that they don't suddenly get more covers for them?

With a Bench area, they could put all of their non-viable characters into a holding area. As they start becoming viable, they can join the active roster.

I'm thinking more long term, when you get into 20 slots or something. Maybe you'd put Rocket & Groot on the bench after winning them (no roster slots), and then the next pve has them as essential, so you bench Blade, and grab Rocket & Groot. 2 PVE's later, Blade is essential, so you bench Gamora and unbench Blade, etc... Or you could have a Gauntlet, and be forced to switch teams repeatedly to get viable teams. That bench is just going to fully fill as soon as you get to the triple roster slot buy, or even before depending on your playstyle.

FaustianDeal

There are short term-fixes that could be dropped in: (I cannot believe these require substantial coding...)
* - give everyone +5 roster spots. This fixes the problem for, if we are lucky, a month.
* - expand the base number of roster spots every starts with by 1 for every new character introduced... or every other new character introduced.. (I can understand paying for duplicates, but not for 1 of each character)
* - expand the base roster size to allow for 1 of every 1* and 2* character (or even every 3* character.. point is pay for the trophy characters, not the ones that are trying to establish love for the game in the player's heart.)

longer term options: (possibly in addition to those above - these have thorns, but are viable)
* cap roster slot prices at some reasonable number (500?, 600?) -- need to account for possible refunds?
* tier slot prices according to the *-level of the character going into it -- this seems like a retool of the roster area
* add a BONUS ROSTER SLOT as a possible prize to either a token drop, or as a progression/placement prize in events... if the variable value seems wonky or possibly too generous then have the prize be worded like "500HP toward a roster slot - with a 'trade in/face-value' of 50HP" if you wanted to just cash it out instead of buying a roster slot with it...
* combining characters... I understand not wanting us to horde cards for eventual respec of a character, but would it be less egregious if someone is willing to spend 500HP to buy a roster spot in which to park a red sentry card to have it in the tank for a respec later? Maybe it is... I'm least in love with this, but it is a roster update concept...
* a 'bench' for characters we aren't actively using or sending out on patrols

I think everyone here can accept that purchasing covers for a character is a viable revenue stream to try to establish, but the accelerating cost of roster space just seems like an unreasonable addition to tack on.

fmftint

this thread is pointless, they just said in the Q&A they are ok with roster constraints and have no plan to change it.

they want you to buy HP because that is their bread and butter

IamTheDanger

Getting a free roster slot with each new character would be great. But it would hurt the game far more than it would help.

So instead of a free slot with each new character, what if each new character came with a 50% off next slot kind of thing. It can only be used when recruiting the first copy of a new character, doubles are still full price. Heck, even 20% or 30 % off would be awesome.

to clarify; by "new character ", I mean newly released to the game. 50% off discount will only be obtainable through the new characters official PvE & PvP release events. not an old character that you didn't have before but finally got one from a token pull.

FaustianDeal

I think being broader in their buffs so that fewer slots were required could also be nice. For example instead of only buffing the 2* Daken for a PVE, give both Daken's a buff... let 2* Daken get the 90 level buff and give 3* Daken a 30 level buff. That way we aren't being forced to hold on to our 2* characters in order to play PVE.

The same could be true in reverse for PVP... Fatal Attraction (Daken's event) could also give its 50% level bump to 2* daken.

This would save everyone at least the roster spots for the lower-leveled variants of the 'lazy' characters.

(It also makes more sense conceptually to buff a 'character' rather than a 'variant' - Iron Man is, arguably, the only character present who draws any ability from the different 'clothing' or armor he is wearing. Its not like the tuxedo and eye-patch did anything to make Wolverine tougher, so why does he not get a buff if he is wearing his Astonishing X-Men or X-Force uniforms?)

Unknown

FaustianDeal wrote:

There are short term-fixes that could be dropped in: (I cannot believe these require substantial coding...)
* - give everyone +5 roster spots. This fixes the problem for, if we are lucky, a month.
* - expand the base number of roster spots every starts with by 1 for every new character introduced... or every other new character introduced.. (I can understand paying for duplicates, but not for 1 of each character)
* - expand the base roster size to allow for 1 of every 1* and 2* character (or even every 3* character.. point is pay for the trophy characters, not the ones that are trying to establish love for the game in the player's heart.)

longer term options: (possibly in addition to those above - these have thorns, but are viable)
* cap roster slot prices at some reasonable number (500?, 600?) -- need to account for possible refunds?
* tier slot prices according to the *-level of the character going into it -- this seems like a retool of the roster area
* add a BONUS ROSTER SLOT as a possible prize to either a token drop, or as a progression/placement prize in events... if the variable value seems wonky or possibly too generous then have the prize be worded like "500HP toward a roster slot - with a 'trade in/face-value' of 50HP" if you wanted to just cash it out instead of buying a roster slot with it...
* combining characters... I understand not wanting us to horde cards for eventual respec of a character, but would it be less egregious if someone is willing to spend 500HP to buy a roster spot in which to park a red sentry card to have it in the tank for a respec later? Maybe it is... I'm least in love with this, but it is a roster update concept...
* a 'bench' for characters we aren't actively using or sending out on patrols

I think everyone here can accept that purchasing covers for a character is a viable revenue stream to try to establish, but the accelerating cost of roster space just seems like an unreasonable addition to tack on.

One more possible solution. Offer 10 rosters spots instead of 4 for every 50 HP increase.

Unknown

it doesnt matter how, the developers do not want to.
So no matter what you write, it will never happen.

Nonce Equitaur 2

Arcade's Death Slot Challenges

ARCADE: You want a free roster slot? Just mosey through this door over here.
[Adamantium door slams shut]
ARCADE: Welcome to my Death Slot Challenges! I have a few impossible challenges lined up for you, and they're killer! Really, they are, you're going to die.

Challenge 1: Player level 100: VS Opponent level 200:
Challenge 2: Player level 100: VS Opponent level 230:
Challenge 3: Player level 100: VS Opponent level 260:
Challenge 4: Player level 100: VS Opponent level 290:
Challenge 5: Player level 100: VS Opponent level 320:
Challenge 6: Player level 100: VS Opponent level 350:
Challenge 7: Player level 100: VS Opponent level 380:

After each death, Arcade laughs and laughs. But on a win, the node is locked as the player gets a free roster slot, and they get to try the next one.

Lystrata

ThisSiteWorks wrote:

it doesnt matter how, the developers do not want to.
So no matter what you write, it will never happen.

Aw, don't be so defeatist. Why, in only October of 2013 someone asked about fixing the end times of events. And look, just little on a year later, it was done! Even if we never see these changes, if we all wither and burn out into empty shells of people... we can at least fight the good fight for future MPQ generations.

Or some such uplifting rot.


+1 to OP. Fully agree. I don't mind paying HP for slots, but a cap would be good. It's getting out of hand - particularly if they're planning a wave of new 4*s in the new year.

wymtime

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

Arcade's Death Slot Challenges

ARCADE: You want a free roster slot? Just mosey through this door over here.
[Adamantium door slams shut]
ARCADE: Welcome to my Death Slot Challenges! I have a few impossible challenges lined up for you, and they're killer! Really, they are, you're going to die.

Challenge 1: Player level 100: VS Opponent level 200:
Challenge 2: Player level 100: VS Opponent level 230:
Challenge 3: Player level 100: VS Opponent level 260:
Challenge 4: Player level 100: VS Opponent level 290:
Challenge 5: Player level 100: VS Opponent level 320:
Challenge 6: Player level 100: VS Opponent level 350:
Challenge 7: Player level 100: VS Opponent level 380:

After each death, Arcade laughs and laughs. But on a win, the node is locked as the player gets a free roster slot, and they get to try the next one.

You forgot the ultimate final node: player level 166 vs 166 2*
If you can win with just Beast you get 2 free roster slots!