MPQ Community Q&A #3 – December - Answer Time!

Spoit

ark123 wrote:

DayvBang wrote:

It doesn't help, though, when the most cynical people on the forum are the first to respond with their preloaded rage.

Please. The sum total of solid information in this Q&A is "Yeah we hear you guys are worried about these things, maybe something will be done about it in the future. Be ready for a bunch more 4*s next year though!"

It doesn't help that the counter complainers were already stuffing their strawmen in anticipation

wymtime

Spoit wrote:

ark123 wrote:

DayvBang wrote:

It doesn't help, though, when the most cynical people on the forum are the first to respond with their preloaded rage.

Please. The sum total of solid information in this Q&A is "Yeah we hear you guys are worried about these things, maybe something will be done about it in the future. Be ready for a bunch more 4*s next year though!"

It doesn't help that the counter complainers were already stuffing their strawmen in anticipation

And Spoit it really does not help me when you keep popping up in my PVP when you are only worth about 25 points. Please stop trolling me in PVP I would appriciate it.

Spoit

wymtime wrote:

Spoit wrote:

ark123 wrote:

DayvBang wrote:

It doesn't help, though, when the most cynical people on the forum are the first to respond with their preloaded rage.

Please. The sum total of solid information in this Q&A is "Yeah we hear you guys are worried about these things, maybe something will be done about it in the future. Be ready for a bunch more 4*s next year though!"

It doesn't help that the counter complainers were already stuffing their strawmen in anticipation

And Spoit it really does not help me when you keep popping up in my PVP when you are only worth about 25 points. Please stop trolling me in PVP I would appriciate it.

I wish I could get people worth 25 points. I gave up when all I could find was like 21

But yeah, I'm shielded so go ahead

mohio

I read that playing pve without regard to progressions the opposite of you guys apparently. I thought it was more saying people are just interested in placement and keep playing past progressions to ensure they get it. Also you see people trying to snipe a late new bracket and not be concerned about the progressions. If progressions were better though you'd probably see more engagement from that crowd.

wymtime

Spoit wrote:

I wish I could get people worth 25 points. I gave up when all I could find was like 21

But yeah, I'm shielded so go ahead

I have a couple people lined up for the last 10 min. You just keep popping up for me in PVP's. I just figured you were stalking me.

Unknown

platypusavenger wrote:

I just got my Devil Dino login rewards, so I am firmly not in the 'new since September' camp. I have probably now spent $2000+ on this game, picking up a Stark Salary pretty much whenever I run out of HP so I truly have no idea what 'normal' HP income looks like or if it is sufficient. Buying roster spots is an annoyance, but not something that necessarily makes me stop and think about it.


I play this game to collect all of the characters. I have only a handful of 3* characters fully maxed, but most of the 3*'s newer than a few weeks old are fully cover maxed and on their way to L110+. I keep and have almost every 1* fully leveled (I throw random iso their way when I finish a new 3*). I keep and have most 2*'s half-way leveled or better. Whenever I get a new hero, I almost immediately buy a second copy of the cover that I just acquired.

If we are about to experience an influx of 4* heroes, and they are going to be given out at rates comparable to previous 4* heroes (e.g. Thor4 and Elektra), it is probably time to hang up my spurs. These extended PvE grinds requiring top 50 are NOT fun. Missing a character and having to gamble at terrible odds on token packs is NOT fun. Missing out on a character is not an option because of OCD, but if the burden of maintaining that OCD keeps ramping up, the answer is going to be to stop playing.

I play this game to collect the covers. If you are telling me that this is a game where I cannot reasonably collect all of the characters, and that the friction of deciding who to keep is a GOOD thing, then you are telling me to stop playing this game.

You are an exceptional case, you 1) have OCD and 2) are willing to spend thousands on this game.

Your problem isn't the overall problem. The overall problem is we are FORCED to use a roster slot for these new B.S. chars if we want to play the next PVE. if we choose not to, we cannot progress. If we cannot progress, what is the point. This is such a laughable way to run this game when it is the only option.

I have no problem buying roster slots, big deal. But when the game is fundamentally broken...No.

Unknown

so you are not going to change anything to the game?
well then.
I downloaded the android app, rated it 1 star and then uninstalled from my phone and from steam.
So disappointed.

56% of the players joined after september, guess why? They see the game, they enjoy it. then they find out how you have to earn new covers and rosters slots and give up. Less than half of your players stick around for longer than three months and you do not learn from that lesson LOL. There is no future for this game.

fmftint

talking out both sides of the mouth,
we don't want to make more progression rewards because we feel everyone should be able to complete them.
we aren't doing anything about roster slots because we don't think you should have a complete roster

Unknown

daibar wrote:

SUPERTOM wrote:

daibar wrote:

papa07 wrote:

If anyone feels that the effort to earn a 4* (or whatever cover) isn't worth it than they shouldn't put in the effort. Why are they doing it? Break the compulsion. D3 won't change anything until the numbers change, so be the change you want to see: a mass of players so dissatisfied with current PVE structure that they just don't play. It's why D3 stopped running heroics.

I completely agree. And I think if we took a pole the majority of people would agree but a small group of those people would still play each PVE until their phone explodes. That's the sad and ironic reality.

Lystrata

In extra addition to my first post, because this just clicked in my mind as absurd justification:

"David wrote:

Moore"]One thing that makes that difficult is that the balance point is in a different place for different players: some enjoy very difficult decisions about who to keep and level, some expect to be able to acquire and max everything, and most are somewhere in between.

... who? Who in hell enjoys making 'difficult decisions' about who to keep on their roster? Seriously - find me 3 posts on here in recent times that are along the lines of "Ooo, awesome! Spent 5 days grinding for a new cover! Now I have the joy of working out if I can keep it or if I have to delete someone else I spent 5 days grinding for! Sc0re!"

I realise that the forums are not the majority of players, but if you're telling us that players enjoy this, I'd like to know where you're getting that information from.

Because I cannot fathom why any player would enjoy grinding for something they can't keep. Deciding on what covers to max, sure. Deciding between who to level and when, absolutely. I can see someone enjoying that. But whether or not they can keep something they played the game to win? No. Absolutely not. I do not see people 'enjoying' that choice. Particularly not when making that choice potentially excludes you from portions of content in the next PvE.

The rest of your answers were fine. I don't agree with them all, but I see them as answers. This justification for not even really addressing the forum's concern about roster slots though... is terrible. Really. Really. Terrible.


EDIT: And I don't think most people expect to be able to acquire everything. They might want to... but realistically, not everyone can win everything. We know that. The issue isn't acquiring. It's keeping. People expect to have a reasonable chance of keeping the covers they do acquire. How is that unreasonable? Or unclear?

Unknown

Reading that the idea is to release a lot of 4* characters just broke me.

I have been playing this game like an obsession for the past 5 months, spending endless hours in alliance chats, organization and grinding like crazy to obtain a full roster of 2* characters while earning enough covers for my 3* roster to become viable. Having spent more money than I would on any other video game short of City of Heroes and Champions Online, I now have 54 roster slots and am so invested in the game that it's hard to just quit.

But after spending over 3 months working hard to try and obtain enough 3* covers (and 4* covers) for any of those characters to become max level, I still have no max level 3*. I am in the middle of the 2-3* progression with no end in sight. Every new character released just stretches out that progression further.

When I started the road to 3*s, a 3* player could make top 25 in any PVP event. With the rise of X-Force and Thoress that has become harder, but it's still doable from what I can see. By the time I get to 3*s, it won't be, and I will be effectively in the same place I was 3 months ago.

The goalposts are being moved faster than I can keep up with.

Five months ago I read that the game was impossible for a new player as they will never catch up unless you invest money into covers. It has taken me 5 months to realize that they were right. I refuse to put money into covers. That leaves me with two options:

Quit, or accept the fact that no matter how much I play, I will never catch up and forever be mediocre at best in PVP.

Most people I know strongly dislike PVE, but at least PVE rewards are obtainable. I strongly dislike PVP in this game, as it shows off the pay-to-win aspect of this game, and rubs it in your face.

There's going to be a whole lot less staring in my phone from now on.

rixmith

I generally find that the Demiurge guys have thought things through pretty well, and proceed in the best interests of the game even though their decisions aren't loved on the forums. For example, getting rid of true healing was very painful, but definitely changed the game for the better (at least for me). So I appreciate hearing about the constraints they are placing on their ideas. Here are some of my thoughts:

How do you increase ISO so that experienced players can level their characters (especially 4*'s) while keeping newer players challenged? How about increasing the daily ISO reward from your alliance playing by the number of days you have played? Someone in an active alliance who had player 20 days would get 200+20 = 220 ISO. Someone on day 200 would get 400 ISO. It isn't a huge deal but MPQ is a game where every little bit helps. Or after you've played 100 days your ISO rewards automatically go up 50%. After 200 days they increase 100%. It just seems like using the days played metric rewards long time players with what they need, without compromising the new player experience.

To help players establish a viable roster, and to give different players different flavors, how about giving players an option to specialize. For a set period of time (maybe 90 days) all of their 2* and 3* token draws come from a pool like Mutants, Avengers, Women, Villains, Independent Heroes... They'll generate useful heroes more quickly and will provide more variety in PvP. They will still get event rewards as they do today, and after 90 days would have the option to reset to a different pool.

GothicKratos

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

I was shocked at their answer to "Could sorting options be added?" Just about every other game I have with collectible components has sorting options. Their answers: "We'd need to code that", "It would add complexity", "It wouldn't meet our awesomeness quotient." A year from now, the roster will have sorting options, and the answers here today will look even more ridiculous than they do now. "At Demiurge, we often use 'awesomeness-per-person-day' to decide what we should be working on." -- this is not a good way to blow off a question.

I just want to say, in this thread, what I said in my downvote of this comment.

God forbid they communicate to us like human beings. Sorry, not sorry, I'm not upset that they actually spoke to us like another person and not some businessed up **** about "statistics this" and "metrics that". Point blank, they didn't blow anything off - they told us that they try to use an equation where the more people that are going to benefit from something is going to be the most important something in the kiddie pool. This is not something I find horrible.

I'd like to thank Dave, and all the developers that took the time to respond and put together this Q&A around your already busy schedule, for a lot of people that don't even appreciate it.

FaustianDeal

rixmith wrote:

How do you increase ISO so that experienced players can level their characters (especially 4*'s) while keeping newer players challenged? How about increasing the daily ISO reward from your alliance playing by the number of days you have played? Someone in an active alliance who had player 20 days would get 200+20 = 220 ISO. Someone on day 200 would get 400 ISO. It isn't a huge deal but MPQ is a game where every little bit helps. Or after you've played 100 days your ISO rewards automatically go up 50%. After 200 days they increase 100%. It just seems like using the days played metric rewards long time players with what they need, without compromising the new player experience.

You could pin it to the ISO awarded for Alliance participation, or you could bake it into the daily rewards (supply drops). There is a 250-ISO prize listed with a 1-in-8 chance of dropping on the days that don't have a scheduled prize. Dial that up. For the first 100-days it is a 250-ISO prize, crank it up to 500-ISO after day-100, and then crank it up to 1000-ISO after day-250? Or add a 500-ISO prize with a drop rate that escalates as you have more days in?

Spoit

FaustianDeal wrote:

rixmith wrote:

How do you increase ISO so that experienced players can level their characters (especially 4*'s) while keeping newer players challenged? How about increasing the daily ISO reward from your alliance playing by the number of days you have played? Someone in an active alliance who had player 20 days would get 200+20 = 220 ISO. Someone on day 200 would get 400 ISO. It isn't a huge deal but MPQ is a game where every little bit helps. Or after you've played 100 days your ISO rewards automatically go up 50%. After 200 days they increase 100%. It just seems like using the days played metric rewards long time players with what they need, without compromising the new player experience.

You could pin it to the ISO awarded for Alliance participation, or you could bake it into the daily rewards (supply drops). There is a 250-ISO prize listed with a 1-in-8 chance of dropping on the days that don't have a scheduled prize. Dial that up. For the first 100-days it is a 250-ISO prize, crank it up to 500-ISO after day-100, and then crank it up to 1000-ISO after day-250? Or add a 500-ISO prize with a drop rate that escalates as you have more days in?

Or like I said in that other thread, increase the value of the higher point level progressions that the 2->3* transition people usually don't hit.

Same with roster slots, they're probably not buying 50+ slots, but getting past $15 a slot is really rather exorbitant, so how about a cap? $10 sounds a lot more reasonable, and I dunno about anyone else, but I wouldn't even care if they didn't refund my past slots that cost more than that, if it meant that future ones weren't so ridiculous

FaustianDeal

Spoit wrote:

Or like I said in that other thread, increase the value of the higher point level progressions that the 2->3* transition people usually don't hit.

You mean like the 800, 1000, & 1200 progressions in PVP? (Because the transition guys on my alliance are hitting all the PVE progressions a lot easier than I am lately...)

I can agree with this (hitting 1300 in PVP is basically only 1,000 ISO for a lot of established players).

Spoit

FaustianDeal wrote:

Spoit wrote:

Or like I said in that other thread, increase the value of the higher point level progressions that the 2->3* transition people usually don't hit.

You mean like the 800, 1000, & 1200 progressions in PVP? (Because the transition guys on my alliance are hitting all the PVE progressions a lot easier than I am lately...)

I can agree with this (hitting 1300 in PVP is basically only 1,000 ISO for a lot of established players).

Yeah sorry I meant pvp progressions

Vhailorx

fight4thedream wrote:

1. All players, from beginners to vets compete in the same events (save those lucky fresh n00bs that get sharded into the mythic baby brackets) for the same prizes. This is a problem. For example, you have player A who i shall call Tiny Tim who has been playing MPQ for 4 months, loves the game, plays semi-hardcore and has a strong 2* roster and then you have player B Uncle Scrooge who has been playing MPQ for 8 months, likes the game, play semi-hardcore and has a strong 3* roster. Then there's a pVp event, let's say Fatal Attraction that offers Patch as the 3* reward and 4* Red Thor cover as the 1300 progression reward. Tiny Tim has Patch at 2/0/1 and would love to get more of his covers. Uncle Scrooge already has Patch maxed but really wants that new 4hor cover. Additionally, Tiny Tim only has two 3* Daken covers, one black and one blue while Uncle Scrooge has 3* Daken maxed. Both do their very best to achieve their goal. Guess what happens? Uncle Scrooge walks away from the event with not only a 4hor cover, but three Patch covers which he promptly turns into Iso while Tiny Tim barely manages to win one Patch cover. The next Patch event will be in two months. The next 4hor chance will be next week.

Believe me when i tell you there are enough Uncle Scrooges out there to lock out most Tiny Tims from having a decent shot at 2 covers. One cover is doable with some luck , good planning, and depending on which characters a player has but at that one cover per pVp rate it would take good luck with token pulls, progression drops in pVe and about 5 or 6 more times of pVp for a player to max out a 3*. And that's only if the character hasn't been vaulted.

2. Which brings us to factor #2: Vaulting. i understand why the devs have implemented vaulting but this system really does tinykitty the tiny guy. Obviously, if they are going to vault anyone it would be older characters BUT they have to keep in mind that besides n00bs 2* transitioning players are the least likely to have a good amount covers for new characters. Some might speculate that this is a maneuver to milk the 2* cow but i have serious doubts this is an effective way to make money. If anything, it would cause most reasonable to just stop playing. No progress = boring game.

^This, a thousand times this!

There is a massive problem with progression in this game. 1*-2* works pretty well, 3*-4* works fairly well, insofar as veterans with solid 3* rosters can compete for 4* covers in pvp progression (via shields) even if they aren't top-shelf enough to compete for pvp placement 4*s.

2*-3* is an absolute mess, and it has only gotten worse since I started playing in July. It is impossible to target any one 3*, or even any small subset of 3*s. And the pool of 3*s not only keeps growing, it is now also rotating. Plus it is now quite difficult to reliably get more than 1 3* cover from both pve and, especially, pvp. So the only way to build a viable, deep 3* roster now is to devote 20 or 30 roster slots to very poorly covered 3*s, and then hope that token luck randomly favors one or two characters. That process will take months, at the very least. And good luck if the RNG gives you tons of beast covers! Or worse yet, if the RNG gives you 6 patch covers just before he went in the vault. Now you have to devote a roster slot to an unplayable patch, AND add more roster spots for the new 3* in the pool. Or you could just throw out the 3* characters you don't have space for, but then you can't really compete in PVE, so your cover generation rate slows down even further.

The system is completely broken, and i think it is producing a serious amount of fragmentation in the player base. 56% of players started since september, but the devs are also releasing "a lot" of 4*s because they need the new content to keep the whales interested. As Will said in the first post, this is a complicated problem. But I can't see any way that the solution is to make the mid-game transition endless.

One plausible, and player un-friendly, explanation of the current system is that the game is designed for 1*-2* transition to be fun and relatively quick, so that it whets the appetite, and then 2*-3* to be long and arduous to cull out those dedicated players who aren't willing to spend large amounts on the game, leaving a dedicated corps of paying players as the top-tier veteran class. (I don't love conspiracy theories, but when absolutely every mechanic in a a game is monetized, then I think it is fair for the players to speculate about the financial interests of the developers.)

Chrono_Tata

Lystrata wrote:

In extra addition to my first post, because this just clicked in my mind as absurd justification:

"David wrote:

Moore"]One thing that makes that difficult is that the balance point is in a different place for different players: some enjoy very difficult decisions about who to keep and level, some expect to be able to acquire and max everything, and most are somewhere in between.

... who? Who in hell enjoys making 'difficult decisions' about who to keep on their roster? Seriously - find me 3 posts on here in recent times that are along the lines of "Ooo, awesome! Spent 5 days grinding for a new cover! Now I have the joy of working out if I can keep it or if I have to delete someone else I spent 5 days grinding for! Sc0re!"

Reminds me of the time when they removed guaranteed covers from cover packs and found that players REALLY enjoyed it because they are buying more cover packs and the devs just "can't figure out why".

loroku

"David wrote:

Moore"]In order to do this, we have to continue evolving the design and some of this will change what players have come to expect as the status quo. For starters, we’ll be releasing more 4*s this year, a lot more. We’re currently devoting a lot of thought to making that transition smoother than it was from 2*s to 3*s.

The 2* to 3* transition already takes about a year, and it's directly related to the number of 3* characters you have - and the number you continue to release every week. I cannot imagine what you have in mind for the "4* transition" but acknowledging that the 2* to 3* transition is terrible is a good start.

"David wrote:

Moore"]56% of MPQ players this month started playing after September, more than half in the last two months. A lot of these players have 2* rosters, and increasing rewards for them too much would throw off the balance of the game this early, making it too easy. It’s a problem when the game is too challenging, but the reverse is also bad, as a lack of challenge will quickly bore you. Progression in any RPG eventually slows down, and speeding things up in one place often just hastens the moment when things get slow. On the other hand, increasing rewards just for more advanced players contributes to a widening gap between veterans and newer players.

Wow, that's an amazing number. Grats to you for increasing your base so much recently, I guess? Or is it that you have a horrible, horrible turnover / burnout problem? Either way, the issue is that getting to 2* isn't too bad; getting to 3* is the problem. It's basically impossible and you keep moving the goal post further away each week. I wouldn't be surprised if many of these new Sept. subs went away in a couple months when they realize they will never get past being in the 2* stage. Maybe that's why you have so many now? I mean, don't get me wrong: I agree that "too fast" can also be bad. But for the 3* transition you're so far away from "too fast" I don't think you have to worry - AT ALL.