[Poll]Ares/Daken or Ares/OBW for defense?

Unknown

So, I mostly use Ares/Daken because statistically they have won me more games on defense than Ares/OBW. But, I have not played Ares/OBW enough to make the difference.

I just wanted some opinions on which couple is better to use for defending?

EDIT: Truned this into a poll

y2fitzy

I tend to use Ares/Daken, simply because I know that in the past they have (occasionally) caught me out thanks to Daken's pesky regen. OBW is great but so squishy.

That said, I have lost twice on offence to teams with OBW in the last week so I'm not as set on Ares/Daken as I used to be!

GrumpySmurf1002

Okin107 wrote:

So, I mostly use Ares/Daken because statistically they have won me more games on defense than Ares/OBW. But, I have not played Ares/OBW enough to make the difference.

I just wanted some opinions on which couple is better to use for defending?

If we're going statistically, from the other side of the coin, I lost more to AWolvie-OBW than any other combo. Spammed strike tiles + OBW triple color espionage hurts faster than expected.

Anyway, I think they're probably about equal. The latter relies on getting OBW down before she takes over, the former relies on speed killing before match damage from Daken's strike tiles overwhelms.

Unknown

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

If we're going statistically, from the other side of the coin, I lost more to AWolvie-OBW than any other combo. Spammed strike tiles + OBW triple color espionage hurts faster than expected.

Anyway, I think they're probably about equal. The latter relies on getting OBW down before she takes over, the former relies on speed killing before match damage from Daken's strike tiles overwhelms.

I agree with you. However, I take into consideration the fact that if you do not kill Daken instantly, he will slowly regen to full HP. If you play against OBW, it is common sense that you target her first, where in the case of Daken, he is the one you should avoid hitting until you are charged enough to completely wipe him. So Daken works in the background until you build your powers, while OBW receives the damage as soon as you enter a battle.

That is my biggest dilemma. Who busts your balls more in defense, Daken or OBW? I find Daken a bit superior for what we talked above. But also having OBW throw one Recon is a major step back for you and a major step ahead for the enemy.

Unknown

I would be more concerned about OBW if I were attacking you. Daken is just a pest, leave him to the end or whenever you have one or two powers to deal with him. For me, OBW very quickly changes the game from a walkover to "holy **** she has enabled the other two guys to get powers off. Oh look, now she has healed them" so you have no other option than to hit her first.

GrumpySmurf1002

Okin107 wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

I agree with you. However, I take into consideration the fact that if you do not kill Daken instantly, he will slowly regen to full HP. If you play against OBW, it is common sense that you target her first, where in the case of Daken, he is the one you should avoid hitting until you are charged enough to completely wipe him. So Daken works in the background until you build your powers, while OBW receives the damage as soon as you enter a battle.

That is my biggest dilemma. Who busts your balls more in defense, Daken or OBW? I find Daken a bit superior for what we talked above. But also having OBW throw one Recon is a major step back for you and a major step ahead for the enemy.

My answer is definitely OBW, unless it's one of the people who go suboptimal 5/5/3 with her.

While it's not a regen, if she gets AGD off quickly, you're back to square one, and denying blue isn't often a priority when her purple + Ares Green/Yellow are devastating. OBW can also suffocate your AP. Daken has no such deterrent, it's just a waiting game while you grab the AP. Comparing to the group above, my loss rate vs Wolvie/Daken is considerably lower than Wolvie/OBW.

Ultimately, OBW is usually an all-or-nothing thing. You get her down quickly, or you die. Daken is more consistent damage and probably hurts more on average, but the ultimate kill rate is likely lower than Ares/OBW.

I'm guessing if you're seeing lots of defensive wins with Daken, it's people who underestimate the extra match damage + Daken's blue and are trying to stretch health packs by going in with 50-60% health. (or just got cascaded to death by Ares, but that can happen with either combo).

Unknown

Generally I'd say Ares/Daken; The quick green/blue combo of Onslaught + Chemical Reaction can quickly down many 2* and often feed more green for another Onslaught. Most 2* teams aren't focused on getting blue. I think this also depends on who your opponents are using to combat them.

OBW/Thor: Ares/OBW is better. Thor is weak against OBW because his moves take long to setup; Against Ares/Daken, he'll take some hits, but usually win.
OBW/Ares: Ares/OBW is a little harder. Usually relies on you getting an aggressive recon before the AI. Can be screwed if they get it off first.
Wolverine/Daken: Ares/Daken is a little harder. If there are too many strike tiles, sometimes I give the AI some blue to clear their tiles so I can clog up red with my own. Against Ares/OBW, Feral Claws and Chemical Reaction are quick and easy to get off before she can steal, and her steal doesn't stop attack tiles. Even if she heals, I can still down her with strikes out.
CStorm/MNMags: Ares/Daken is a little harder. Daken can heal off the damage from a single windstorm. OBW steals on match, but you generally try to match it before she does.


transition 3*: in general OBW/Ares is a little harder just due to Aggressive Recon slowing the other team down. However, most 3* will trample you anyways.

homeinvasion

OBW is the best pound for pound character in the game, if OBW were 4 star she would be the most used character, period. Daken may make them use health packs after the game but OBW will get the wins.

Unknown

Ares/Daken. Daken is better than OBW on defense. He is harder to kill and he can cause some trouble with his active blue.

Unknown

Daken will sometimes mishandle his on defense, where OBW is dummy proof. Dummy proof is good for AI.

Vhailorx

Ares/obw is a more difficult team to fight. And obw definitely has the best ability set in the game (dislocure, I have never played with a maxed xforce). Her only weaknesses are low health and low level cap,

Ares daken is irritating and will hurt, but Ares/obw has an easy path to total victory that even the ai can handle without much trouble (spam every power as soon as possible).

I think the anecdotal evidence of more defensive wins with ares/daken just reflects the fact that ares/obw prevents a lot of attacks before they even start. I know that tend to skip ares/obw wherever possible. Ares' powers are fast enough that he will always do damage, and obw means there is a real chance that the ai will get a little board luck and wipe me with ap steal and healing.

Ebolamonkey84

Ares and 3/5/5 OBW. Even when I was in 2* land the only time Daken ever concerned me was when he was scaled too high in PVE. OBW only needs 2-3 purple matches to ruin your day. If you don't focus on her first she either steals your AP or heals, both of which prolong the match and leave you open to more damage.

D2KM_

Ares/OBW was my go to team for what seemed like forever. The strike tiles generated by daken are annoying, but you kind of answered the question yourself by stating who you atk first: always OBW. She is just that good. When attacking a ares/obw team you have to target OBW first, while denying purple, blue, green and yellow. Thats a lot to ask and one bad cascade and OBW will make you pay. Both ares/obw are pretty ai proof in that the ai cant really mess up when casting them, where in using daken the cpu could cast chem reaction w/out any strike tiles on the board, which is pretty useless. Ai proof teams are what you want for your defensive team.

Unknown

Daken possibly deals more damage overall across matches. However, his damage output is relatively consistent. It's basically a race to get enough AP to power abilities and wipe him in one turn before his strike tiles deal too much damage. He is annoying and you might get damage, but it's hard to lose against him (saving a lucky AI cascade).

OBW on the other hand is a different matter. When you are going against her, IF all goes well AND you are careful with the match-3 game it's a cakewalk. BUT you really have to be careful and monitor all the time her AP and take into account that she can steal AP with matches. She can easily turn the tables on you with with an AP steal or healing herself and/or a team-mate.

Unknown

I jump all over any team that has OBW. Her hp is so low, I target her and usually take her out before she can cast any powers.

Mawtful

I actually get the most defensive wins from OBW+Storm.

Unknown

The answer is Ares/OBW.

One bad cascade is what it takes for OBW to ruin your day. Since the computer only ever uses an ability once a turn, it's entirely possible that you'll be getting Aggressively Reconned for the rest of the match. Blue will make that ares impossible to kill and he will be Sundering your **** all day long. Note that this is basically true regardless of what team the attacker is using - Ares/OBW has an OK chance of beating anything. Ares Daken does not.

ballingbees

Ares/Daken will quite certainly cost you one health pack. But chances are you should get the win.
Ares/OBW is quite conditional on board, may cost anything from none to 3 health packs. Win is anything but a given.

To me OBW certainly carries a bigger element of risk than Daken on defence. Yes she has lower health that you can take out faster, but there's every chance she will ruin your day, and the rest of the week, or the new phone that you threw against the wall.
I had a second OBW built to 1/5/5, and now find myself using her more than my 3/5/5 one, despite the lower level cap(79). At lower health, she is enticingly weaker, but insidiously faster. Perfectly fitting of her sneaky job scope (in her Original BW days) in my opinion.
And the added bonus is, in BalanceOfPower, she is upped to level 270 anyways.

Off topic, OBW+Hood paired with a good hitter, can take down any team, and steal you dry, pants and all. Even X-Force won't be too scary if his pants are stolen.

Unknown

jzahm wrote:

I jump all over any team that has OBW. Her hp is so low, I target her and usually take her out before she can cast any powers.

As a transitioning player, 2* Daken is more of a nuisance/annoyance/pest rather than a real threat. I've rarely,,, if ever lost to a team featuring Ares + Daken, but I've lost plenty of times to Ares + OBW or Thor + OBW. Like others have pointed out previously, in a heavy purple board or a lucky cascade for the AI a 355 OBW + Thor or Ares is capable of beating almost any team. You'll get aggressive reconned every other turn and get hit with Sunder or Call of the Storm multiple times in the match.

Unknown

Do you ever lose to Ares/OBW? I don't. I don't lose to Ares/Daken either but Daken actually hurts my team with his blue and purple. He also needs to be killed with nukes due to his constant healing. I deny OBW's colors and she dies with or without nukes.