PVP with XForce

Afrocigar

Could some of you knowledgeable guys explain to me how it could possibly be fair to match players against guys with Maxed 4*'s? I don't have any 4*'s close to being fully covered (day 405) yet at around 600-700 I can no longer move any higher in my bracket.

I've read about how the system tries to give you a bit of a challenge based on MMR,which I don't really understand. Most PVP's eventually have me matched against people with crazy rosters. Why not just throw the whales into a shard and let them go at it and leave us casual types to fight realistic matches? I hate to believe I have any insight into this games operation, but there has to be a way to filter guys with maxed 4*'s and have them fight among each other. Then the rest of us have a legitimate chance to progress.

Raekwen

Sure, we'll go battle it out for the good rewards, and you can be in a shard with other transitioners for much lesser rewards. Sound fair?

Unknown

You are framing the discussion in an Us versus them where both groups are players. Why not make the discussion Us (all players) vs them (D3) and take the opportunity to suggest it might be time to widen reward bands again instead of one group of players complaining about another group of players. We are all trying to do the best we can. It is not the players fault for the slow rate of progression, nor is it the players fault for wanting to progress at a reasonable rate. But as things currently are there are many on the outside and those inside get defensive when they feel that changes might take that away from them because they worked hard to get inside. D3 are the ones with the power to make the game more fun for all, and don't need to take anything away to achieve that, just have to be more generous.

Afrocigar

That's not what I mean.

If the goal is the have even matches, how is it even for a player with no fully covered 4*'s to face a player with none?

I don't see how it would mess anything up if you have players with similar rosters fighting and those with maxed rosters gravitating toward each other.

What's the problem with that?

Right now in my bracket I am #6 w/595pts and all of my nodes are 270 X-Forces. I have these covers maxed: Panther, GSBW, Daken, Hulk, Punisher. My X-Force is 2/2/2 lvl100. How do I compete going forward?

Afrocigar

Cryptobrancus wrote:

You are framing the discussion in an Us versus them where both groups are players. Why not make the discussion Us (all players) vs them (D3) and take the opportunity to suggest it might be time to widen reward bands again instead of one group of players complaining about another group of players.

Thanks Crypto, didn't think about it that way. That's what I wanted to discuss. So you mean instead of top 100 getting a cover move it to top 200, that way everyone has a valid shot. I like that. It seems more doable than my suggestion. I would be all over that.

Unknown

You're confusing the issue that X Force is much stronger than anyone else who happened to be a 4* with the whole 4* vs 3*. Sentry was a 3* that was also much stronger than anyone else, including 4*, before he was nerfed. There's nothing particular fair about fighting X Force when you don't have him. X Force being overpowered is because he's X Force, not because he's a 4*.

Unknown

And as to the point above when the top 20% of all players have x-force and win all the rewards they show up for how do the 80% even earn 3* rewards let alone 4*? The more people do well, the harder and harder it becomes to compete for digital rewards. I understand d3 not wanting to hand out "too many" but the bands have increased in the past, and they will almost certainly need to be widened again. The question becomes, when?

Eddiemon

Afrocigar wrote:

Could some of you knowledgeable guys explain to me how it could possibly be fair to match players against guys with Maxed 4*'s?

Sure, it's called 'competetion'. It's where you don't get fed people you can automatically beat until you get to #1. You are actually expected to beat peopel with good rosters in order to actually be considered the best.

I don't have any 4*'s close to being fully covered (day 405) yet at around 600-700 I can no longer move any higher in my bracket.

Sounds right. So you don't have a top 50 roster, but you feel that you should be able to place in the top 50 because why?

Depending on your bracket 6-700 should be good for a new cover.

I've read about how the system tries to give you a bit of a challenge based on MMR,which I don't really understand. Most PVP's eventually have me matched against people with crazy rosters. Why not just throw the whales into a shard and let them go at it and leave us casual types to fight realistic matches? I hate to believe I have any insight into this games operation, but there has to be a way to filter guys with maxed 4*'s and have them fight among each other. Then the rest of us have a legitimate chance to progress.

Wow fair went out the window didn't it. What you actually want is it to be rigged so the people who have progressed and developed their rosters need to fight over a very small pool of rewards while the 'casuals' who probably aren't paying much, if anything, get the same pool of rewards.

Let me win because my team is inferior isn't 'fair' by anyone's definition.

Your system actually encourages people not to progress so they can keep feeding on the casual pools rather than actually having to compete.

Of course they could make a 'casual' competetion with less rewards and an open competetion with greater rewards to balance things out, but that's defacto what exists now, with weaker rosters able to compete for 1 3* cover but not necessarily the full 3.

FaerieMyst

If you want to advance into the league of top players then you have to consistently beat harder opponents. It's that way for everyone. A 2 that wants to get 3 characters has to fight against 3 rosters for the top slots. It works the same for everyone that is trying to get to the next level. And it is possible. My youngest daughter is F2P with a solid 2 star roster. She has one character over 100. She placed 2nd in the Rocket/Groot PVP. She had a lot of fully maxed 3 opponents thrown her way.

There aren't that many fully loaded X-Force. Most of the ones I come up against are at a much lower level. That said, X is as beatable as any other opponent. The basic trick is to deprive him of black and green. There are a number of ways to do that.

Eddiemon

Afrocigar wrote:

If the goal is the have even matches, how is it even for a player with no fully covered 4*'s to face a player with none?

That's not the goal. The goal is to run a competetion. Along the way they try to match you up with similar tiered competetion so you can advance as far as you reasonably can within the competetion.

I don't see how it would mess anything up if you have players with similar rosters fighting and those with maxed rosters gravitating toward each other.

What's the problem with that?

Because to win a competetion you should be the best in your competetion bracket. Which is how it currently runs. Rigging this so that the 'best' are all in a bracket of their own denies them the prizes they should get so that people who aren't close to the best and can't compete are rewarded instead.

Right now in my bracket I am #6 w/595pts and all of my nodes are 270 X-Forces. I have these covers maxed: Panther, GSBW, Daken, Hulk, Punisher. My X-Force is 2/2/2 lvl100. How do I compete going forward?

OK so you're 6th in your bracket. How high do you feel you should be able to advance before you face the good teams in your bracket? Or do you feel you should be able to get to #1 above the teams that have an Xforce without being able to beat them?

Unknown

Eddiemon wrote:

Wow fair went out the window didn't it. What you actually want is it to be rigged so the people who have progressed and developed their rosters need to fight over a very small pool of rewards while the 'casuals' who probably aren't paying much, if anything, get the same pool of rewards.

The issue is, that at this point, you pretty much need X-Force to score 1300 points to get X-Force covers. Do you see the problem with that?

The reward system needs major work. The people at the top are getting the best rewards and just deleting them. The people just below them get nothing of value.

Unknown

Eddiemon wrote:

Sure, it's called 'competetion'. It's where you don't get fed people you can automatically beat until you get to #1. You are actually expected to beat peopel with good rosters in order to actually be considered the best.

So do XForce players get matched against level 365 teams? I mean would that not be fair considering they can beat other teams pretty easily?

People need to realize they are not better because of their roster, they have an advantage. PvP is not a competition, competitions are usually fair which would mean you get bracketet with people that have about your rooster strength.
The (cover) rewards for such a bracket should be worse and that would actually be a good thing because a transitioning player does not need a single 4star. Instead replace it with a fourth 3star cover of that PvP. Now that is a progression reward worth competing over with other transitioning players.

Unknown

I ve seen too many xf + 4 thor team in this pvp event. I am sure they will exist in every event from now on. My hulk just vanished from full health to deadth by one strike from 4thor. Tankiest of all tank becomes a joke now.

y2fitzy

I'm in 2* land, with a few half-covered 3*s. I don't expect top 10 or even top 50. But I do find it bizarre how you hit 500/600 and there's just this complete switch in the opponents offered up, from maxed 2* to 166/270s.

One minute you have plenty of similarly levelled rosters to battle, the next you have to skip 20, 30 times in the desperate hope of seeing another level 94.

It's a weird artificial ceiling, like something in the programming has decided thou shalt not pass beyond 600 (bar a few defensive wins, you lucky bugger)

OnesOwnGrief

I'm more baffled at the fact a person can be at day 405 and not be able to hit higher than 600-700. Even before I started buying covers, hitting 900 was doable with my level 125 roster and generally enough to hit top 10-25. By that point, I knew that in order for me get a covered XF, I'd have to take my mostly covered Sentry and start bombing like the rest of them to go higher. It may not have been the way I wanted to do it but it got me plenty of covers in the process and ISO to go along with it. Now Sentry bombing is mostly dead and those who took advantage of it still have the tools they need to continue to push for 1000+ points.

I can't understand why every post about pvp scores just about comes across as trying to punish those that actually put any effort into their game (or purchased their way in). You hit a wall, you find a way to push above it. Storm/MN Magneto teams can hit 600-700. I see them all the time in my climb at those numbers. No explanation can be given as to why anyone with decent leveled 3*s can't hit above that. I know this isn't the most tactful way to put it but seriously think about that. Are you really stating that you can't do any better than a Storm/MNMags team, one of the squishest teams on the game?

Unknown

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

Translate: I exploited Sentry to get my own broken X-Force so I can still score high and rest can go tinikitty themselves

OnesOwnGrief

raziel777 wrote:

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

Translate: I exploited Sentry to get my own broken X-Force so I can still score high and rest can go tinikitty themselves

I have no shame in admitting that but it doesn't change fact that I was able to put up higher scores than those people hitting this supposed wall of 166 at 600-700. Not only surpassing that score but doing it with level 125 characters against 166. I didn't even have a 166 until Anniversary week.

GrumpySmurf1002

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

raziel777 wrote:

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

Translate: I exploited Sentry to get my own broken X-Force so I can still score high and rest can go tinikitty themselves

I have no shame in admitting that but it doesn't change fact that I was able to put up higher scores than those people hitting this supposed wall of 166 at 600-700. Not only surpassing that score but doing it with level 125 characters against 166. I didn't even have a 166 until Anniversary week.

Have to agree. I get that there's a wall for 2* rosters (though Mag/Storm can push through it), and understand that's a problem for transitioners.

I don't understand the "4* wall" if you have maxed 3* characters. Most of the high quality 3* characters can win quite easily against XForce. Even with the (surprisingly) limited list given, some combination of Panther/Hulk/Daken should be plenty to beat them.

Bigger question, also as stated, is how you get to day 405 without a usable Thor, Patch, Hood, LCap, etc...

Unknown

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

I'm more baffled at the fact a person can be at day 405 and not be able to hit higher than 600-700. Even before I started buying covers, hitting 900 was doable with my level 125 roster and generally enough to hit top 10-25. By that point, I knew that in order for me get a covered XF, I'd have to take my mostly covered Sentry and start bombing like the rest of them to go higher. It may not have been the way I wanted to do it but it got me plenty of covers in the process and ISO to go along with it. Now Sentry bombing is mostly dead and those who took advantage of it still have the tools they need to continue to push for 1000+ points.

I can't understand why every post about pvp scores just about comes across as trying to punish those that actually put any effort into their game (or purchased their way in). You hit a wall, you find a way to push above it. Storm/MN Magneto teams can hit 600-700. I see them all the time in my climb at those numbers. No explanation can be given as to why anyone with decent leveled 3*s can't hit above that. I know this isn't the most tactful way to put it but seriously think about that. Are you really stating that you can't do any better than a Storm/MNMags team, one of the squishest teams on the game?

Today is day 400 for me and I rarely get past 700. Then again, I don't even try anymore since I don't care to lose points and my rank. I've never shield hopped or purchased covers and I do not spend any money on the game (spent 5 bucks on hero points for roster slots in the beginning). I don't have Hero Points to shield with every event, especially since they release new characters every 8 freakin' days now. I took off 2-3 months during the spring/summer, logging in once per day for my daily bonus. Even before I took a break from MPQ, I think I only came close to 900 or first place once. Just because someone is on day 400 doesn't mean that they have the top team. Sure I have 10-15 3*'s above level 100, but are you really scared by my top team of XForce 155 & a maxed out Punisher and Grey Widow Black suit? No Sentry, no lazy Thor, no Lazy Daken, no Hood with 5 Blue covers, no Fury, no 4* Thor.

Remember, not everyone is or has been in a top alliance. Top alliances have received so many more rewards than my casual, 5 person alliance. The gap between the top and those transitioning is quite large.

Unknown

MikeHock wrote:

Today is day 400 for me and I rarely get past 700. Then again, I don't even try anymore since I don't care to lose points and my rank. I've never shield hopped or purchased covers and I do not spend any money on the game (spent 5 bucks on hero points for roster slots in the beginning). I don't have Hero Points to shield with every event, especially since they release new characters every 8 freakin' days now. I took off 2-3 months during the spring/summer, logging in once per day for my daily bonus. Even before I took a break from MPQ, I think I only came close to 900 or first place once. Just because someone is on day 400 doesn't mean that they have the top team. Sure I have 10-15 3*'s above level 100, but are you really scared by my top team of XForce 155 & a maxed out Punisher and Grey Widow Black suit? No Sentry, no lazy Thor, no Lazy Daken, no Hood with 5 Blue covers, no Fury, no 4* Thor.

One upon a time,

I was challenged to a race. "12 laps" said my foe. I nodded and the race began. I was doing ok, until midway through the race. I decided to just walk 2 or 3 laps. My foe continued to push on, extending his lead. As he lapped me for the first time, I thought about all the reasons I decided to walk instead of run. "Maybe I will try to run the race again", I said to myself. I started running again, but by this time I was really far behind. So I spent the rest of my time thinking of ways to blame everything else, except myself of course.

The End

IamTheDanger

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

I'm more baffled at the fact a person can be at day 405 and not be able to hit higher than 600-700. Even before I started buying covers, hitting 900 was doable with my level 125 roster and generally enough to hit top 10-25. By that point, I knew that in order for me get a covered XF, I'd have to take my mostly covered Sentry and start bombing like the rest of them to go higher. It may not have been the way I wanted to do it but it got me plenty of covers in the process and ISO to go along with it. Now Sentry bombing is mostly dead and those who took advantage of it still have the tools they need to continue to push for 1000+ points.

I can't understand why every post about pvp scores just about comes across as trying to punish those that actually put any effort into their game (or purchased their way in). You hit a wall, you find a way to push above it. Storm/MN Magneto teams can hit 600-700. I see them all the time in my climb at those numbers. No explanation can be given as to why anyone with decent leveled 3*s can't hit above that. I know this isn't the most tactful way to put it but seriously think about that. Are you really stating that you can't do any better than a Storm/MNMags team, one of the squishest teams on the game?

I was wondering the same thing.