D3 Nerfs your invested characters to try make us buy packs

Unknown

HailMary wrote:

papa07 wrote:

The only problem is that up to this point, the best and 2nd best, etc were all 3 star characters. Now X-Force and 4Thor (in about 40 days) are the best and those are out of reach for most casual, F2P players. Spiderman, CMags, Sentry, Hood were all difficult to max, but obtainable.

I sympathize with the ever-slower pace of the 2*-3* transition. I do. The expanding 3* character pool and the vaulting of high-tier 3*s exacerbates that.

But, why should "most casual, F2P players" expect to max out the two best characters in the entire game?

Here's a better couple of question.
(1) Why would any casual, mostly F2P player transition to paying to play?
(2) Why would a player who decided to pay, decide to never pay again, and either only play casual or (as I did) uninstall?

(1) The initial spend of money is usually for a cover or set of covers that helps one compete. Player is having fun, has been able to compete, has some nice covers, and they want more. After covering that character, the game gets more fun, so you are more willing to pay. But wait! The money you spent for that set of covers was just turned to a steaming pile of manure. This leads to (2)

(2) Spent on a cover (or a few) and started the transition. Competing well in some PvE, and starting to get some PvP wins. covers are coming in faster, then suddenly that key character (or couple) that let you compete are nerfed to a steaming pile of manure.

Whales in top alliances, with $d out accounts, or just benefitting from alliance/play placement for a year, don't feel this sting. New players, ones not in top alliances, ones who paid in and started having fun got screwed.

In a way I'm glad that only 4* are welcome to the party now, makes it much easier to leave.

Unknown

HailMary wrote:

papa07 wrote:

The only problem is that up to this point, the best and 2nd best, etc were all 3 star characters. Now X-Force and 4Thor (in about 40 days) are the best and those are out of reach for most casual, F2P players. Spiderman, CMags, Sentry, Hood were all difficult to max, but obtainable.

I sympathize with the ever-slower pace of the 2*-3* transition. I do. The expanding 3* character pool and the vaulting of high-tier 3*s exacerbates that.

But, why should "most casual, F2P players" expect to max out the two best characters in the entire game?

No expectation of that (anytime soon anyway). However, a look at the top tier over my transition time (about 6 months and counting)

180 days ago - Spiderman, CMags, Patch, LThor, oBW? (0% 4*)
120 days ago - CMags, Patch, Sentry, Hood, Laken, LThor, Fury (14% 4*)
60 days ago - CMags, Patch, Sentry, Hood, Laken, LThor, XForce, Fury (25% 4*)
Now - CMags, Hood, LThor, XForce, Fury (40% 4*, 40% Vaulted)

Feel free to add to the list

The problem is that any 3* that is OP gets beat down, with nothing to replace them but 4* options that are inaccessible for the F2P in the top tier game. I am not looking for things to be handed to me and I do not expect to finish in first because I am not willing to pump money into this game. That said, if this is truly a freemium game, then the ability to progress has to be there for all players. This is the second time that a game change has sent me backwards (True Healing being the first), but unlike the last time, I don't have any hope of doing more than spinning my wheels for the next 2 months. With Thor and Mags vaulted for the indefinite future, MMR being broken, the need to shield to get past 600, and no viable options to beat the 270/166 wall that occurs at 600, there is no hope of progressing. My season average has continually gone up since True Healing, reaching a peak of 825 last season. Based on the new meta, it will be a struggle to reach 700 this season

Unknown

vayhle wrote:

HailMary wrote:

papa07 wrote:

The only problem is that up to this point, the best and 2nd best, etc were all 3 star characters. Now X-Force and 4Thor (in about 40 days) are the best and those are out of reach for most casual, F2P players. Spiderman, CMags, Sentry, Hood were all difficult to max, but obtainable.

I sympathize with the ever-slower pace of the 2*-3* transition. I do. The expanding 3* character pool and the vaulting of high-tier 3*s exacerbates that.

But, why should "most casual, F2P players" expect to max out the two best characters in the entire game?

Here's a better couple of questions:
(1) Why would any casual, mostly F2P player transition to paying to play?
(2) Why would a player who decided to pay, decide to never pay again, and either only play casual or (as I did) uninstall?

(1) The initial spend of money is usually for a cover or set of covers that helps one compete. Player is having fun, has been able to compete, has some nice covers, and they want more. After covering that character, the game gets more fun, so you are more willing to pay. But wait! The money you spent for that set of covers was just turned to a steaming pile of manure. This leads to (2)

(2) Spent on a cover (or a few) and started the transition. Competing well in some PvE, and starting to get some PvP wins. covers are coming in faster, then suddenly that key character (or couple) that let you compete are nerfed to a steaming pile of manure.

Whales in top alliances, with $d out accounts, or just benefitting from alliance/play placement for a year, don't feel this sting. New players, ones not in top alliances, ones who paid in and started having fun got screwed.

In a way I'm glad that only 4* are welcome to the party now, makes it much easier to leave.

Some other answers:
1. A. Roster slots. More casual players like new characters, particularly if they like the character outside of the game.
B. Perhaps you want to level up Wolverine because you think Wolverine's cool, and kicks ****. The fact that he's a decent character in this game is a side-benefit. Maybe your favorite character is Rocket & Groot.
C. Maybe people have, you know, actual fun when playing this game, and aren't super competitive as long as they're winning 9 out of every 10 matches.

2. Many reasons:
A. Life
B. Debt
C. Realization that the time and money they are putting into the game is no longer returning the same ratio of fun that it used to. We all need something new and exciting.
Seriously, there are way better, cheaper fully completed games out there.
D. Counselling for OCD.

Nellobee

Man, it is a good thing I am not trying to play my favorite characters. My faves out of the ones in game so far are She-Hulk and Beast.

HailMary

papa07 wrote:

No expectation of that (anytime soon anyway). However, a look at the top tier over my transition time (about 6 months and counting)

180 days ago - Spiderman, CMags, Patch, LThor, oBW? (0% 4*)
120 days ago - CMags, Patch, Sentry, Hood, Laken, LThor, Fury (14% 4*)
60 days ago - CMags, Patch, Sentry, Hood, Laken, LThor, XForce, Fury (25% 4*)
Now - CMags, Hood, LThor, XForce, Fury (40% 4*, 40% Vaulted)

Feel free to add to the list

Don't mind if I do: DP, Mq, BP, Patch (yes, he's still there), UDaken (yep, him, too). I'm also told that HT is amazeballs once you get to know him, but I don't like his squishiness, so I won't count him.

papa07 wrote:

The problem is that any 3* that is OP gets beat down, with nothing to replace them but 4* options that are inaccessible for the F2P in the top tier game.

You were talking about "casual, F2P," so which is it: "casual" or "top-tier"?

papa07 wrote:

I am not looking for things to be handed to me and I do not expect to finish in first because I am not willing to pump money into this game. That said, if this is truly a freemium game, then the ability to progress has to be there for all players.

It's still there. The transition is much slower, but that has little to do with bumping Sentry from "he has his own insane tier" to high-tier.

papa07 wrote:

This is the second time that a game change has sent me backwards (True Healing being the first), but unlike the last time, I don't have any hope of doing more than spinning my wheels for the next 2 months.

You're stuck for 2 months simply because Sentry-bombing is slower now? I don't follow.

Unknown

HailMary wrote:

papa07 wrote:

No expectation of that (anytime soon anyway). However, a look at the top tier over my transition time (about 6 months and counting)

180 days ago - Spiderman, CMags, Patch, LThor, oBW? (0% 4*)
120 days ago - CMags, Patch, Sentry, Hood, Laken, LThor, Fury (14% 4*)
60 days ago - CMags, Patch, Sentry, Hood, Laken, LThor, XForce, Fury (25% 4*)
Now - CMags, Hood, LThor, XForce, Fury (40% 4*, 40% Vaulted)

Feel free to add to the list

Don't mind if I do: DP, Mq, BP, Patch (yes, he's still there), UDaken (yep, him, too). I'm also told that HT is amazeballs once you get to know him, but I don't like his squishiness, so I won't count him.

Deadpool - haven't gotten covers, and he's rarely in the wall, so hard to say.
Mystique - P2W only - there are no covers out there yet.
Panther - Huge black but slow. Rarely in the wall
Patch/Daken - great climbing team. Limited knockout punch.
Torch - color tanking doesn't work for him (hard to hide him). If he was Patch/Psylocke health he would be much better

In my skipping through the wall today
40% Xforce/Hood
40% Xforce/CMags
15% XForce/Fury
5% Sentry/Hood or Daken

Percentages are approximate, but that's what I saw. Maybe it will improve as people get used to not having Sentry, but based on how hard it is to beat a 270 Xforce without Sentry, I wouldn't put up anything else on defense.

HailMary wrote:

You were talking about "casual, F2P," so which is it: "casual" or "top-tier"?

I left a comma out of the original post. I am F2P, but more than casual. Let's not lose sight of the big picture discussion over a missing punctuation mark.

papa07 wrote:

I am not looking for things to be handed to me and I do not expect to finish in first because I am not willing to pump money into this game. That said, if this is truly a freemium game, then the ability to progress has to be there for all players.

HailMary wrote:

It's still there. The transition is much slower, but that has little to do with bumping Sentry from "he has his own insane tier" to high-tier.

Much slower - when a year is probably the current standard for transition. That doesn't make much sense from the perspective of the transitioner, F2P, or casual player. And Sentry is no longer high tier - still solid, but let's not pretend you can hop on the wall with him anymore.

papa07 wrote:

This is the second time that a game change has sent me backwards (True Healing being the first), but unlike the last time, I don't have any hope of doing more than spinning my wheels for the next 2 months.

HailMary wrote:

You're stuck for 2 months simply because Sentry-bombing is slower now? I don't follow.

More in reference to there being 5 solid options for getting out of the pack score-wise. Of those, 2 are 4* and 2 are vaulted. Unfortunately for me, I have had bad cover luck with CMags and not much better luck with Thor. So, when they get out of purgatory, I have a chance to move them forward and advance. Despite having 14 characters with 12 or 13 covers, most of them are not suitable for getting through the 166/270 wall at 550 in PvP and by leveling them all equally (ie Roster Diversity), it is even harder with them at level 126.

Time to leave this behind and spend the holiday with family. Last word in this discussion only requires hitting the reply button. Happy Thanksgiving all.

Unknown

vayhle wrote:

Here is my take on these threads in general:

If you had Sentry, did not have X-Force maxed, you are pissed as all hell about the extreme nerf to Sentry. If you were mostly casual, but decided to pay a bit for covers to max him, even more so.
If you had Sentry, and also have X-Force maxed, you are not pissed at all. Sentry is just another bench warmer.
If you didn't have Sentry, and have X-Force maxed, you are thrilled because you have the new FotM for PvP.

I'm catagory #1 above, the nerf was (as usual) over done, I'm done. not worth getting annoyed like this in a game.

Agreed, obviously xforce is now god and whoever invested in sentry to get them to where it is now are very pissed and you can't argue with them because they spent so much time and money and you just took that away from them.

HailMary

papa07 wrote:

Deadpool - haven't gotten covers, and he's rarely in the wall, so hard to say.
Mystique - P2W only - there are no covers out there yet.
Panther - Huge black but slow. Rarely in the wall
Patch/Daken - great climbing team. Limited knockout punch.
Torch - color tanking doesn't work for him (hard to hide him). If he was Patch/Psylocke health he would be much better

In my skipping through the wall today
40% Xforce/Hood
40% Xforce/CMags
15% XForce/Fury
5% Sentry/Hood or Daken

Percentages are approximate, but that's what I saw. Maybe it will improve as people get used to not having Sentry, but based on how hard it is to beat a 270 Xforce without Sentry, I wouldn't put up anything else on defense.

Interesting. I also rarely see Mq because she's so new -- though I have an alliancemate who maxed her using event reward covers and a couple of lucky token pulls, so there are some covers out there.

My experience in general against max 3*/4* has been quite different, though. I see a surprisingly high number of BPs, a good number of DPs, and nearly no Furies. In the last PVP, I saw less UDaken than I'd expected, and far more Hulk than I'd expected.

papa07 wrote:

HailMary wrote:

You were talking about "casual, F2P," so which is it: "casual" or "top-tier"?

I left a comma out of the original post. I am F2P, but more than casual. Let's not lose sight of the big picture discussion over a missing punctuation mark.

So, to clarify, you're not talking about casual F2P. You're talking about hardcore F2P: the kind of F2P player who really wants top-tier characters and consistently high placement.

papa07 wrote:

Much slower - when a year is probably the current standard for transition. That doesn't make much sense from the perspective of the transitioner, F2P, or casual player.

Sure. I still don't see what this has to do with turning Sentry into something less than an "I win" button.

papa07 wrote:

And Sentry is no longer high tier - still solid, but let's not pretend you can hop on the wall with him anymore.

To be blunt, considering the fact that you don't see BP and DP in your wall, your wall is hardly the de facto standard for "high-tier characters." Remember when CMags was nerfed from "crazy OP" to "high-tier"? Remember how so many people raged about him being "ruined", but then sloooowly realized that he's not only completely usable, but still high-tier? It's little different for Sentry. He no longer has a boosted three-turn auto-win, but he's still good.

papa07 wrote:

More in reference to there being 5 solid options for getting out of the pack score-wise. Of those, 2 are 4* and 2 are vaulted. Unfortunately for me, I have had bad cover luck with CMags and not much better luck with Thor. So, when they get out of purgatory, I have a chance to move them forward and advance. Despite having 14 characters with 12 or 13 covers, most of them are not suitable for getting through the 166/270 wall at 550 in PvP and by leveling them all equally (ie Roster Diversity), it is even harder with them at level 126.

I get that. What I don't get is what this has to do with nerfing Mr. Win Button. "The pack" you refer to is likely comprised of transitioners like yourself, so you're basically saying "nerfing an OP 3* sucks for the transitioners, because I, as a transitioner who has that OP 3*, can't reliably outscore all the other transitioners who might not have him", which is... ummm... weird.

Mawtful

vayhle wrote:

(2) Why would a player who decided to pay, decide to never pay again, and either only play casual or (as I did) uninstall?

I went from paying regularly to F2P a while back.
I keep playing because I like match-3 and I like Marvel. My weekday commute time is about 60 minutes at the most (total time of morning and afternoon), so a few rounds of MPQ actually fills the gap nicely. The recent troubles with data usage for Android users meant I stopped that too - I would jump in and play through the first mission in Prologue just to keep bumping my daily reward - so I think I'm just about done, although if I can hold on 3 more days there's a yellow Fury cover waiting on Day 400.