Where are the 2*->3* transitioning teams in PvP?

Wonko33

MarvelMan wrote:

Phumade wrote:

The more rare combination is two 166s and a 60 loaner char. At that pint you know there roster is underpowered. I had already won 8 blade covers before the pvpi had even started. 4 from pve and 4 from the prior pvp

This isnt a true blanket statement. Even with an overpowered roster there are a couple reasons for leaving chars at 60 (which would only appear to be a loaner) or even using the loaner.

I used the loaner in Cap Marvel because I did not want her to use black in defense, I want to save them for BP rage. I had plenty of covers for Cap, it's called strategery!

Unknown

MarvelMan wrote:

Its possible you are at a bit of an inversion in MMR as level 100 3*s are easier (weaker) than maxed 2*s. So you could be slightly above the slightly leveled 3* MMR.

The "wall" at which people run into 3x 166s has fluctuated a bit recently, sometimes as high as 800 (I think) but its currently down to 600.

There seems to be another change at 900 (or 1000) where you start getting more high point matches from people hopping. At 940 in the last PVP I cycled through over 50 people, then just pushed past 1000. Once there, I started getting 47, 48 and 50 point matches every other skip.

I had a change in R64. I used to get those 40-50 point matches once I got to 650. In Blade, didn't see anything above 22 and I got as high as 815. When I get to hop position (650 or so) and have to start shielding, I have no issues Sentry bombing any 166 or 270 out there. I just want them to be worth more than 19 points.

Phumade

Wonko33 wrote:

MarvelMan wrote:

Phumade wrote:

The more rare combination is two 166s and a 60 loaner char. At that pint you know there roster is underpowered. I had already won 8 blade covers before the pvpi had even started. 4 from pve and 4 from the prior pvp

This isnt a true blanket statement. Even with an overpowered roster there are a couple reasons for leaving chars at 60 (which would only appear to be a loaner) or even using the loaner.

I used the loaner in Cap Marvel because I did not want her to use black in defense, I want to save them for BP rage. I had plenty of covers for Cap, it's called strategery!

All I meant to imply is that a loaner character between 400-800 pts is asking for an automatic attack from 3* rosters. The reason is because, they will only have 1 cover in that char and because the AI is generally terrible at playing defense. It will be super easy to pick off the loaner character and by that time, you've got enough AP to one shot the other characters. Over 800, you'll get sentry bombed regardless of who you have on defense.

Between 400-800pt, I'm generally seeing 20-25 point matches. The only thing I'm considering when climbing is, how fast can I finish this match, and who will I take the least amount of damage from. If its 3 166 for 23 points, I'll skip even if I know its an easily winnable match. 2 166 and a 60 for 19 points is an automatic attack because I can use X-force /daken/thor/bp to knock out the loaner in 4 turns and then focus attack on whoever is left.

I use loaners when pushing, but I would never leave a loaner character in my last match for a defensive team.

HariSeldon

There's one other thing going on here...now that the 166 wall has become better known to players approaching the 2* -> 3* transition, many of us are stockpiling covers and ISO so we can go from 2* maxed to at least 2 decent (or preferably 3) 3* at 140+ in a single step.

Its a slower progression, but makes it easier all the way around and far less frustrating. I think the very problem you're referring to has become self-perpetuating. A different mechanism for matching would probably help alleviate some of it, but until there's an active enough population across the spectrum, it probably isn't worth the development costs and effort to fine tune that aspect of PvP.

Unknown

Loaner should not be viewed as weakness because if there's a conflicting green or yellow power you'd often be better off with a 1/0/0 loaner than a max level character. It probably speaks a lot about how powerful Sentry and X Force are when you wouldn't use a character at level 249 that overlaps with their primary attack colors.

Phumade

Phantron wrote:

Loaner should not be viewed as weakness because if there's a conflicting green or yellow power you'd often be better off with a 1/0/0 loaner than a max level character. It probably speaks a lot about how powerful Sentry and X Force are when you wouldn't use a character at level 249 that overlaps with their primary attack colors.

I'm a little confused by what you mean in the last sentence. I'd would much rather have pair a higher level green attack character like a 166 hulk with either sentry or X-force for this reason. Hulk's high green ensures that he's always at the front of the attack (taking damage). Sentry and X-force green abilities don't depend on having their tiles on the board and they get the benefit of green action point irregardless of whether they matched the green or someone else matches the green.

With respect to the actual match 3 damage, all that matters is the attack rating. I.E. a Character that has a 100 attack rating in a color does more damage than 90 attack rating irregardless of who the character is.

So hypothetically, if OBW's black was buffed higher than X-force's black, you do more damage when she's matches black, and X-force can still cast Surgical strike from the Black AP that OBW collects. Maybe I'm wrong about that?

The only character I can think of off hand where it matters that they specifically match the colors is Patches red. In that case, I agree that patch has to be the highest level character on the team.

Unknown

Wonko33 wrote:

MarvelMan wrote:

Phumade wrote:

The more rare combination is two 166s and a 60 loaner char. At that pint you know there roster is underpowered. I had already won 8 blade covers before the pvpi had even started. 4 from pve and 4 from the prior pvp

This isnt a true blanket statement. Even with an overpowered roster there are a couple reasons for leaving chars at 60 (which would only appear to be a loaner) or even using the loaner.

I used the loaner in Cap Marvel because I did not want her to use black in defense, I want to save them for BP rage. I had plenty of covers for Cap, it's called strategery!

Technically, strategery would be having a 5/0/5 C.Marv to use when you want to pair her with BP on defense At least 0/0/5 to steal some red/black (but how would you get her out front, red matches?)

I often use guest character when sentry bombing because A) Who cares about the retailiation, you will be shielded for it and 2) that way the featured doesn't eat Health Packs due to Sentry whuppin's

Unknown

@Phumade - The only time you care about overlaping colors is on defense, where AI control means your team will Hulk Slap more than World Rupture.

Phumade

Lerysh wrote:

@Phumade - The only time you care about overlaping colors is on defense, where AI control means your team will Hulk Slap more than World Rupture.

I totally agree with this statement when the AI is controlling the team, but on offense when I'm controlling the abilities, I would much rather pair a sub 221 X-force (with an attack level of 78) with a 166 Hulk (attack 79) to guarantee that I can collect green AP with impunity knowing that every attack after a green match is on my hulk. For my last game, I would always switch out for a X-force/hood combo or Sentry/hood combo.

Unknown

Phumade wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

@Phumade - The only time you care about overlaping colors is on defense, where AI control means your team will Hulk Slap more than World Rupture.

I totally agree with this statement when the AI is controlling the team, but on offense when I'm controlling the abilities, I would much rather pair a sub 221 X-force (with an attack level of 78) with a 166 Hulk (attack 79) to guarantee that I can collect green AP with impunity knowing that every attack after a green match is on my hulk. For my last game, I would always switch out for a X-force/hood combo or Sentry/hood combo.

What they are trying to say is:

Use whatever you want while you are grinding. When you are playing your last match, if the required character has a color that overlaps one of your strong abilities, then use the loaner.

Which contradicts your original statement that seeing a loaner means the opponent has a weak roster, which everyone is trying to tell you is not true.

Everyone caught up now?

Carry on.

Unknown

ZeroKarma wrote:

I'm wondering the same thing. I tried something different with this Blade PvP. I joined immediately since I'm in Asia, and figured the competition might be a little bit lower starting at midnight US time. It worked and I jumped up pretty fast and am right under 800.

Problem is, there are no transitioning teams. My A squad is L140 LCap and L140 Hood, with an L130 Sentry for low-scale bombing. I would expect to at least see several teams that are running something like that, but I haven't. Everything is max 166's and, more often than not, a 270 XForce. Surely I'm not the highest ranked transitioning player.

If there is a huge glut of people transitioning, then we should see each other once in a while. I can't believe that everyone is shielded all the time. And when I get hit and look for retals, I'm not getting hit by transitioning guys eithe. They are the same max guys from before. So it is either 166's or 94's. The 94's are easy and the 166's are difficult to hit quickly without tricks.

To make matters worse, the opponents in my queue are all at LOWER points than I am, so if I break shield I can't jump quickly. It's not a good return.

I don't understand the concept of tanking in this case. Won't I still have to face the same opponents when I hit 700 points? Unless you mean tank in the Sim and lower my MMR there.

By the way, any suggestions on 3* 166 teams that are easier to go after than others? Otherwise, I'm just going to hide behind my shields until I can get these guys maxed.

I don't know how much there is to it. However, you used to see few people without genuinely high scores (900+) shielded. Now, you have people throughout the event at all these low amounts shielded. This causes there to be less targets. Worse, it shows how awful some players are. They are wasting HP they need for slots or for the end of evnts shielding at the wrong times or scores that are too low. Some players seem to think they are supposed to never be attacked which limits the targets available for lower level players, but it also means that their MMR does not naturally decrease (because they do not get unshielded losses).

ZeroKarma

stephen43084 wrote:

I don't know how much there is to it. However, you used to see few people without genuinely high scores (900+) shielded. Now, you have people throughout the event at all these low amounts shielded. This causes there to be less targets. Worse, it shows how awful some players are. They are wasting HP they need for slots or for the end of evnts shielding at the wrong times or scores that are too low. Some players seem to think they are supposed to never be attacked which limits the targets available for lower level players, but it also means that their MMR does not naturally decrease (because they do not get unshielded losses).

You bring up a good point, and I do see that a lot. I made my run today to 400 points, and expect to get knocked back down 100-150 or so while I'm sleeping. (Though I'm guessing there are easier targets with a big Thor and a big enough LCap to give people a reason to hunt elsewhere) At the lower level, getting hit doesn't really matter until you are starting to really make a push because the matches are worth a high point value. 100 points is 3 matches and that's it....against low level teams as well. I will shield when I hit the wall maybe, and definitely when I'm over 700.

Anyone thinking there will be a strong push in this PvP with the Colossus covers? I know he isn't super highly regarded, but I'm assuming the there are a lot of empty cover slots since he is relatively new.

Unknown

ZeroKarma wrote:

stephen43084 wrote:

I don't know how much there is to it. However, you used to see few people without genuinely high scores (900+) shielded. Now, you have people throughout the event at all these low amounts shielded. This causes there to be less targets. Worse, it shows how awful some players are. They are wasting HP they need for slots or for the end of evnts shielding at the wrong times or scores that are too low. Some players seem to think they are supposed to never be attacked which limits the targets available for lower level players, but it also means that their MMR does not naturally decrease (because they do not get unshielded losses).

You bring up a good point, and I do see that a lot. I made my run today to 400 points, and expect to get knocked back down 100-150 or so while I'm sleeping. (Though I'm guessing there are easier targets with a big Thor and a big enough LCap to give people a reason to hunt elsewhere) At the lower level, getting hit doesn't really matter until you are starting to really make a push because the matches are worth a high point value. 100 points is 3 matches and that's it....against low level teams as well. I will shield when I hit the wall maybe, and definitely when I'm over 700.

Anyone thinking there will be a strong push in this PvP with the Colossus covers? I know he isn't super highly regarded, but I'm assuming the there are a lot of empty cover slots since he is relatively new.

Scores will be high (probably not Blade rewards high). Most people do not have him max covered yet. Also, he's buffed in the PVE, so people wanting Mystique will also want to make sure they have him if possible.