208 Days

mjh

Yesterday was day 208 and it marks a milestone in MPQ for me. It was the first time I have gotten the 1300 progression reward. It is also right after maxing Sentry (I had to buy 2 covers to get him there). Not a coincidence, he rips through any and everybody, granted sacrifice stays on the board.

The point is progress can be made, but it is indeed a marathon, not a race. A top100 alliance is a huge help, I would even say mandatory to speed up the process. My first 4 seasons were in a casual 5 player alliance, once I got into a full alliance I had more covers than I knew what to do with.

ISO becomes the bottleneck, not covers. I am becoming part of that 166 wall I complained about and hated before. I now have 4 166 characters. Progress has been made.

_RiO_

Congratulations on using a known OP character.
This changes nothing about the overall feasability of performing a 2* -> 3* transition in any sane kind of timeframe within the confines of the updated rules of the game.

homeinvasion

yea once you get sentry max the game changes dramatically, I knew sentry was OP but the first time I used boosts and only needed 1 green match and 1 yellow match to win a game I actually realized how broken he is. I guess they don't mind because in reality, every time you sentry bomb you probably pay them like a dollar ( for health packs, boosts etc).

And I feel your pain with iso 8 man, I worked out the other day I need over 4,000,000 to level up my max covers. which is like US $4,000 so not going to happen. I really don't understand why it costs for ONE only ONE character about $300 to level up for covers and iso 8. Even if they quadrupled the amount of iso 8 you got for a hundred dollars it would still be a rip off.

GuntherBlobel

I'm glad you are having fun. But, I don't think this is a great endorsement of the game and it's intended progression rate.

MPQ has had many exploits that the devs purposely avoided dealing with because only the "top-tier" players could access them. Consequently, the top-tier game is now completely unlike the rest of the game, with abundant 50 pt matches once you climb above 800 pts. The masses fighting lvl 270 X-Forces at 600 pts for 20 pts wins and 40 pt losses can't comprehend how different the game is once you are among the minority.

Just because you Sentry-hopped to 1300 today does not mean that a new player will be able tomorrow. As far as I can tell, the devs have never intended for anyone to break 1300. The scoring algorithm is entirely in their control and the have never relaxed it. Once, they unintentionally made it more difficult (imagine a 166/270 wall at 400 pts). Shield-hopping is a player-made solution to a dev-instituted problem. If the money is good, they'll ignore it longer. But the history of MPQ clearly shows that once an exploit reaches beyond the top-tier, it gets hammered by the devs.

So, enjoy it while it lasts.

Unknown

The reward at 1300 even existing is a clear indicator the devs expect some people to reach that point. They even said once that progression rewards being too hard to hit was a problem for PvP, and then they lowered the point values on a lot of things.

Sentry is pretty awesome at PvP, that much is true, and he should be looked at for balancing. That doesn't mean people will stop reaching 1300 without him. The same strategy still works, it just takes more time. Maybe without him people won't reach 2000 consistently, but 1300 should be doable by anyone willing to shield hop for it.

mjh

GuntherBlobel wrote:

I don't think this is a great endorsement of the game and it's intended progression rate.

Never said it was. 208 straight days of gameplay to make real progress is absurd, that was more my point.

GuntherBlobel wrote:

with abundant 50 pt matches once you climb above 800 pts.

Not true, at least not for me. I have to spend at least 100 in skips before I find a 48pt match, let alone those juicy 50pointers

GuntherBlobel wrote:

Just because you Sentry-hopped to 1300 today does not mean that a new player will be able tomorrow

Also never said that either. The bigger picture was you need to be in a top100 alliance and persevere through the **** to get anywhere in this game.

GuntherBlobel

HawkeyeSucks wrote:

GuntherBlobel wrote:

I don't think this is a great endorsement of the game and it's intended progression rate.

Never said it was. 208 straight days of gameplay to make real progress is absurd, that was more my point.

GuntherBlobel wrote:

with abundant 50 pt matches once you climb above 800 pts.

Not true, at least not for me. I have to spend at least 100 in skips before I find a 48pt match, let alone those juicy 50pointers

GuntherBlobel wrote:

Just because you Sentry-hopped to 1300 today does not mean that a new player will be able tomorrow

Also never said that either. The bigger picture was you need to be in a top100 alliance and persevere through the **** to get anywhere in this game.

I wasn't attacking you. I think the part about being happy for you read sarcastically, but it wasn't meant to be. I'm 200+ days too and I also successfully shield-hopped for the first time a recently. It was kinda fun, expensive, and completely unlike the game I've been playing for almost a year now. Because I now have a max covered Sentry without buying covers, many other people must too, and so I expect the nerf hammer within the next 3 months. Then it will be a race to max out the next most broken game mechanic.

The only point I want to quibble with is that 100 ISO for a 50 pt match while shield hopping is super cheap. I would gladly spend that much ISO for a 50 pt match at any point in the progression.

loroku

I've never personally seen a 50-point match.

I take it that's the maximum? It actually took me at least a month to see anything higher than 29.

GuntherBlobel

loroku wrote:

I've never personally seen a 50-point match.

I take it that's the maximum? It actually took me at least a month to see anything higher than 29.

50 is the maximum that you can win, yes. The best part is that if you do happen to lose, you lose 0 pts. This is the game you play when you shield hop.

You'll see 50 pt matches somewhere around 900 pts, when you fall into a new bucket and start to get matched with players above 1300 pts.

GuntherBlobel

Lerysh wrote:

The reward at 1300 even existing is a clear indicator the devs expect some people to reach that point. They even said once that progression rewards being too hard to hit was a problem for PvP, and then they lowered the point values on a lot of things.

They said that when people challenged them to show that anyone had actually reached 1300. Before shields existed it was impossible. If the zombie horses left you alone long enough to keep scoring, eventually 0 pt matches halted your progress.

Shields weren't introduced to help people get high scores. That's why they changed them shortly after their release to make people invisible when shielded.

Sheild hopping is only possible because of server lag. It's an exploit that happens to put into the game. The devs may be fine with that, but they didn't design it. As far as I can tell they have never done anything intentional to make Progression awards more attainable.

HailMary

GuntherBlobel wrote:

Sheild hopping is only possible because of server lag. It's an exploit that happens to put into the game. The devs may be fine with that, but they didn't design it. As far as I can tell they have never done anything intentional to make Progression awards more attainable.

Huh? Why is server lag necessary for shield hopping?

GuntherBlobel

HailMary wrote:

GuntherBlobel wrote:

Sheild hopping is only possible because of server lag. It's an exploit that happens to put into the game. The devs may be fine with that, but they didn't design it. As far as I can tell they have never done anything intentional to make Progression awards more attainable.

Huh? Why is server lag necessary for shield hopping?

Well maybe you should get still get 1 win in before you get get hit and lose more points than you won. So maybe its not strictly required.

A round with Sentry takes about ~1-2 min to play. That's how much time you should have before someone else his you. But you can safely unshield for ~10 min. The difference has to be server lag or queue lag. Within minutes after that you can observe the 200 pt loss you narrowly avoided.

The point is that shield hopping is not simply resuming play after a long day at work. We all know that. Its about timing matches to avoid the risk of losses, which is an artifact of the system. Its not by design. The devs didn't invent shields to help us get to 1300.

If they wanted us to get to 1300, they would simply set the scoring algorithm to be like Sheild Sim.

HailMary

GuntherBlobel wrote:

Well maybe you should get still get 1 win in before you get get hit and lose more points than you won. So maybe its not strictly required.

A round with Sentry takes about ~1-2 min to play. That's how much time you should have before someone else his you. But you can safely unshield for ~10 min. The difference has to be server lag or queue lag. Within minutes after that you can observe the 200 pt loss you narrowly avoided.

The point is that shield hopping is not simply resuming play. We all know that. Winning additional points between shields is an artefact of the system and not by design.

I've definitely been hit before completing my first shield-hop fight (and have won defenses before doing so, as well), so, at best, this "server lag" is inconsistent. How quickly someone enters a fight against you after you unshield depends on a variety of factors. For example:
1. your point value relative to your defensive strength
2. your point value relative to other similar teams who are also unshielded around that time (given a 30-point node and a 48-point node with the same top-tier team strength, a player is gonna hit the 48-point node)
3. the number of active target-seeking players who, based on relative point levels and MMR, can actually see you.
4. the number of unfriendly players who can see you, i.e. players who aren't buddies who avoid sniping you.

It's very rare for anyone above 1300 to be unshielded for a full 10 minutes without getting hit... repeatedly. This threshold is much lower during the T-8hr and T-3hr feeding frenzies. Of course, it's obviously easier to do so if you're running a top-tier L249-L166-L166 team, but staying completely unscathed for a full 10 minutes is still rare.

MarvelMan

GuntherBlobel wrote:

A round with Sentry takes about ~1-2 min to play. That's how much time you should have before someone else his you. But you can safely unshield for ~10 min. The difference has to be server lag or queue lag. Within minutes after that you can observe the 200 pt loss you narrowly avoided.

The reason shield hopping works is because it takes someone X amount of time to find you in the queue and Y amount of time to fight the match. If you finish your match(es) in less than the shortest X+Y you can reshield before the defensive loss occurs. That is not server lag.

GuntherBlobel

MarvelMan wrote:

GuntherBlobel wrote:

A round with Sentry takes about ~1-2 min to play. That's how much time you should have before someone else his you. But you can safely unshield for ~10 min. The difference has to be server lag or queue lag. Within minutes after that you can observe the 200 pt loss you narrowly avoided.

The reason shield hopping works is because it takes someone X amount of time to find you in the queue and Y amount of time to fight the match. If you finish your match(es) in less than the shortest X+Y you can reshield before the defensive loss occurs. That is not server lag.

Ok, I'm fine with that. Server lag it is not. Does that mean that shield hopping to 1300 was what the devs intended or expected?

If they didn't intend it, is it here to stay? Will there be more characters like Sentry aimed at making the play time faster than queuing time?

I don't think so. I'm curious about what others think.

MarvelMan

Id say it is more of a minor annoyance of a side effect. I think they kind of allow the shield hopping because the alternatives are horrendous.

The situation was WAY, WAY worse prior to shields. You think the pack of zombies is tough to escape now....it was crazy brutal the last 3 hours of a PVP before. You could win for 20 points and lose 200.

Shortly after they implemented shields it was CRAZY easy to hit 1300.....I climbed to 2400 without really trying at one point.

So allowing people to queue those who are unshielded, then break shield and hit them, is kind of the least bad option. People have tried, with good ideas, to improve it but I havent seen one that really works.

Unknown

GuntherBlobel wrote:

Lerysh wrote:

The reward at 1300 even existing is a clear indicator the devs expect some people to reach that point. They even said once that progression rewards being too hard to hit was a problem for PvP, and then they lowered the point values on a lot of things.

They said that when people challenged them to show that anyone had actually reached 1300. Before shields existed it was impossible. If the zombie horses left you alone long enough to keep scoring, eventually 0 pt matches halted your progress.

Shields weren't introduced to help people get high scores. That's why they changed them shortly after their release to make people invisible when shielded.

Sheild hopping is only possible because of server lag. It's an exploit that happens to put into the game. The devs may be fine with that, but they didn't design it. As far as I can tell they have never done anything intentional to make Progression awards more attainable.

So they didn't lower the 2* cover from 600 to 500? They didn't introduce a second Recruit Token at 900 and lower and add more rewards at 400/600/800? I seem to recall they did do all these things. Non PvP related, but they've also hit on the PvE progression formula to make 100% completion about 50% of what you need to place for a 3* cover, meaning almost everyone that tries gets it. Saying they have "never done anything intentional to make Progression awards more attainable" could not be farther from the truth.

1300 is for the elite players. The ones that could be deemed in the "4* transition". The ones that hit 900 as a matter of course in any given PvP. It can be reached. Hell, it's evident it can be shattered by some of the X-Men scores. You do have to employ a bit of the current meta to achieve 1300, but that will ALWAYS be true. Even as the meta changes and evolves, the top players will be the ones employing the current rock to beat the scissors.