We should not have arms rams balance changes

Unknown

Looking at the boosts returning in R62 I think we need to stop having arms race balance changes, even though this particular change is likely quite beneficial to me. This game is inherently competitive in PvP, and in PvE community scaling ensures that no absolute advantage can be obtained. Level shift, for example, has the net effect of adding 25 levels to all enemies for those fielding a 3* roster. Teamup, on the other hand, has the net effect of lowering an unknown number of levels on all PvE enemies because all AI teams are simply stronger with teamups than without. Unless we get rid of scaling and somehow make PvP not about placement, these changes are ultimately meaningless. If boosts are more available then everyone's score goes up in PvP so it'd still be just as hard as before to place well, and sure the progression rewards become easier but people sure are quick to forget that D3 had no problem increasing the 1300 4* to somewhere around 2800 back in the good old days of shields. If it becomes too easy to hit 1300 all that's going to happen is you'll have the reward threshold raised again.

Likewise for PvE as long as community scaling is around any blanket buff or nerf will result in a corresponding change in levels. Now, that doesn't mean certain characters that do need to be buffed/nerfed should not be, but I see literally no point in a generic overall buff/nerf like level shift or teamup or boosts. We had a pretty significant drop in both PvE scores and enemy level back when the AI got to used 3 teamups for free, and we ended up having to limit the AI to 1 teamup and they're no longer allowed to select Sentry's powers. But what does this accomplish? If the goal is simply to get people to die more often in PvE you could've just unilaterally increased everyone's scaling and accomplish the same thing! Sure, you can say this doesn't harm anyone, and that's true, but I'd prefer the game's resources being used for something other than adding a mechanism that has the net effect of causing everyone's PvE scaling to go up by 20 levels to compensate for the added power.

wymtime

Phantron wrote:

Looking at the boosts returning in R62 I think we need to stop having arms race balance changes, even though this particular change is likely quite beneficial to me. This game is inherently competitive in PvP, and in PvE community scaling ensures that no absolute advantage can be obtained. Level shift, for example, has the net effect of adding 25 levels to all enemies for those fielding a 3* roster. Teamup, on the other hand, has the net effect of lowering an unknown number of levels on all PvE enemies because all AI teams are simply stronger with teamups than without. Unless we get rid of scaling and somehow make PvP not about placement, these changes are ultimately meaningless. If boosts are more available then everyone's score goes up in PvP so it'd still be just as hard as before to place well, and sure the progression rewards become easier but people sure are quick to forget that D3 had no problem increasing the 1300 4* to somewhere around 2800 back in the good old days of shields. If it becomes too easy to hit 1300 all that's going to happen is you'll have the reward threshold raised again.

Phantron I first want to say I regularly agree with you and respect your opinion. In this case I happen to disagree. I don't think scoring in PVP will go up with the R62. Most people who are boosting are currently paying the 200 ISO for boosts knowing it what benifit will come. People who boost instead of use TU will continue to Boost.

Phantron" wrote:

Likewise for PvE as long as community scaling is around any blanket buff or nerf will result in a corresponding change in levels. Now, that doesn't mean certain characters that do need to be buffed/nerfed should not be, but I see literally no point in a generic overall buff/nerf like level shift or teamup or boosts. We had a pretty significant drop in both PvE scores and enemy level back when the AI got to used 3 teamups for free, and we ended up having to limit the AI to 1 teamup and they're no longer allowed to select Sentry's powers. But what does this accomplish? If the goal is simply to get people to die more often in PvE you could've just unilaterally increased everyone's scaling and accomplish the same thing! Sure, you can say this doesn't harm anyone, and that's true, but I'd prefer the game's resources being used for something other than adding a mechanism that has the net effect of causing everyone's PvE scaling to go up by 20 levels to compensate for the added power.

With Level Shifts if you are talking about when 3 went to 166 this was to increase the disparity between 1 and 2 and 2 and 3 characters. The Devs saw many people had multiple 3 covers without levels and wanted to encourage people to put ISO into them and use them.
Team up's are a different way to use enviromental tiles. They allow people to test out powers. It has been a good theory and good attempt to add a demension to the game, but overall I don't think it had the effect the dev's were looking for. They tried something new and gave us and the AI extra abilites, but the player base has been so trained to skip White tiles that it has not had a huge impact.

In PVE if you take a look at the Gauntlet players liked the challenge of beating a deadly team scaled up to 299. You had to boost because as a player you were starting out at such a disatvantage. It was still a challenge but was rewarding when you won.

The Dev's need to make sure there is a way for weaker teams to try and beat stronger teams. Boosts and TU are they way they do this. Yes it increases MMR, Yes it increases scaling, but as a player you are also rewarded for higher placement, more ISO, HP, and 3* covers. Boosts, TU, boosting/Nerfing characters is a very fine line and if they get rid of them they need to find a way to challlenge the player base and give them a different type of support to help when they feel there team is just out classed. I hope they continue to buff older characters, and some newier ones, but if they change boosts, there needs to be something else in place to give smaller teams, for lack of a better term, a boost.

Unknown

You would place better in PVP if you spent more time building your roster and less time writing your garbage posts on these forums, Phantron. Most of us longtime players assumed you were sandboxed long ago because we never see you past 800 points, let alone 1800; it comes as a shock when someone spots you in PVE brackets because we figured you would be invisible.

We all know why you want changes to PVP - you suck at it.

Unknown

Ghast wrote:

You would place better in PVP if you spent more time building your roster and less time writing your garbage posts on these forums, Phantron. Most of us longtime players assumed you were sandboxed long ago because we never see you past 800 points, let alone 1800; it comes as a shock when someone spots you in PVE brackets because we figured you would be invisible.

We all know why you want changes to PVP - you suck at it.

BEST. RESPONSE. EVER



also 100% agree

Unknown

Lol, lmao. Rolling around on the floor. Oh my stomach hurts!

Unknown

Deleted. More proof I shouldn't post when exhausted.

Unknown

Err, just gonna throw this out there...

Boosts returning is a REALLY REALLY REALLY GOOD THING.

Top tier players who are using boosts constantly don't need a whole lot of ISO. They have their rosters maxed out. For transitional players, every scrap of ISO they get is going into their 3*s that they have covered. Like, I can choose between having a much faster match... Or leveling my sentry. This levels the playing field. This makes it easier for transitional players to keep up, and makes it harder for people who really can afford to buy boosts to stay ahead of the rest of us. It's not an arms race. It's leveling the playing field.

GothicKratos

There's so many arrogant **** on the internet...

Unknown

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

Err, just gonna throw this out there...

Boosts returning is a REALLY REALLY REALLY GOOD THING.

Top tier players who are using boosts constantly don't need a whole lot of ISO. They have their rosters maxed out. For transitional players, every scrap of ISO they get is going into their 3*s that they have covered. Like, I can choose between having a much faster match... Or leveling my sentry. This levels the playing field. This makes it easier for transitional players to keep up, and makes it harder for people who really can afford to buy boosts to stay ahead of the rest of us. It's not an arms race. It's leveling the playing field.

I have bad news. Pretty sure boosts will not drop as often as before. Also when you get boost X instead of a 395 c storm blue, you might feel a little different.

Personally, I was hoping they'd get rid of boosts to Nerf sentry hopping to a degree, and level the playing field for those who don't buy boosts. For while you're happy you'll receive boosts, as you previously stated, there a lot of players who will buy far more boosts than you receive.