Best Active Abilities by Colour - Green. RESULTS IN

Spoit

You know, if her blue wasn't so expensive to get bubbles on the board, IW's green actually would be pretty good. Even though you can't target it like the hood's pistols, 27 AP for 9 is a pretty darn good exchange, especially with cascade chances

Pylgrim

Spoit wrote:

Except that WR is still great with any other strike tile ability too (and actually doesn't cause that much self damage in isolation since the vast majority of sentry's self damage comes from sacrifice). Like, against a average health (6800 and under) or 2* team, the strike tiles from the laken matches you got to get WR in the first place are quite sufficient to do a full wipe. Or if you actually have a team slot for him, BP's BP is only 100 strike damage less, which is largely enough to put the rest of the game into clean up mode with a few more matches, if not an instant total wipe

The fact that it is easy to enable doesn't take away from the fact that it NEEDS enabling not to be super average. Berserker Rage is game ending as well if you pair it with Trickery, for example. Much harder to pull? Sure, but the point is that we're looking at the abilities on their own. Some of its incredible potential gets factored as well, but I'm not a bit surprised that an ability with a extremely high, immediate payback that requires little setup, such as CTS is beating it.

Unknown

Spoit wrote:

Lystrata wrote:

Man. Thor is killin' these.

His only bad move is red. Which is actually still fairly decent

Thor's red used to own the game until it got downgraded and now only produces 3 yellow, when before it was 7 (if memory serves me right).

CTS is still the best in game green offensive, followed by Happy Clappy Hulk

Sniper rifle for me is third purely because there's no come back to the team plus the cascade it sets off can refuel all other colours.

1 - Thor, Call The Breeze
2 - Hulk, Clapping Time
3 - BWGS, Shooter

Pylgrim

Poll's ended! Let's take a look at the results.

1. Call the Storm (Thor) 87
2. World Rupture (Sentry) 73
3. X-Force (Wolverine X-Force) 65

4. Berserker Rage (Patch) 30
5. Judgement (Punisher) 18
6. Flame Jet (Human Torch) 14
7. Sniper Rifle (Gray Suit Black Widow) 13

8. Lightning Strike (Storm) 3
9. Thunderous Clap (Hulk) 1
10. Force Field Crush (Invisible Woman) 0
11. Animal Inside (Beast) 0
12. Armed and Dangerous (Doc Ock) 0
13. Reprieve (She-Hulk) 0

So, a triad of extremely powerful abilities, then 4 abilities that can hold their ground and a plethora of useless or weak abilities that make those characters obsolete if you have any of the others.

Lystrata

Sooo... Beast has 0 votes across all colours, but they're going to take out Punisher/Patch/HT to start including Beast in tokens?

Poor guy. Just wanted to do his little experiments... but damn he's useless.

HairyDave

Lystrata wrote:

Sooo... Beast has 0 votes across all colours, but they're going to take out Punisher/Patch/HT to start including Beast in tokens?

Poor guy. Just wanted to do his little experiments... but damn he's useless.

He's somewhat useful if he's well covered - he wasn't awful in the PVE team-up node where you got to play with a fully covered version. But he's clearly not good.

Unknown

All this poll proves is that there are a lot of people who are bad at MPQ.

World rupture is meta-defining in a way that no other skill is. It literally defines the experience of top tier players. MPQ without World Rupture would be like SSBB without Metakinght - totally different to the point that it'd be difficult to see what the tier list would look like. Or hell, it'd be like MPQ without the old C.Mags. Seeing the analogy? Notice how much worse Patch is now?

But even ignoring that, and pretending we're looking at skills alone, I'm sorry, but CTS is simply not as good as X-Force. It just isn't. It does marginally more damage per AP, but misses out on the massive cascades that destroying 15 tiles can and in practice very often does cause - keeping in mind here that Unstoppable crash is still pretty damn playable at 6AP just for 16 random tiles. Even before considering the metagame, XForce breaks just about even.

But if you consider the meta (which you absolutely absolutely absolutely should, because a skill being "good" outside the metagame is about as meaningful as a cake recipe being "good" compared to dirt and gravel), XForce easily comes out on top. A lot of the time, you want heavy, cheap burst damage rather than slower AOE nukes. Even if we ignore AP steal completely, the fact is that the cheaper your skill is, the worse its AP/Damage ratio should be, because faster skills means a faster time taking out problematic targets. But factor in a meta where Hood is absolutely everywhere, and where Green is the most high-demand color? One X-Force will almost down a maxed-out Hood, and 8 AP isn't very difficult, even with his awesome denial capabilities. 14 is considerably harder. And if you're facing a hood, you're going to be sinking match damage into him, meaning that a decent portion of your CtS may well be wasted on the enemy team. If the team also has Patch or Daken, two very common characters, they might end up soaking up a lot of that AOE damage through regeneration before the character you're focused on dies. Single-target doesn't have that issue. You can blow up a problematic target, or just take a huge chunk out of their tank. Again, just for emphasis. The fact that Hood is so popular in the meta makes an 8-AP 4k nuke infinitely more valuable than a 14-AP attack with an only slightly better AP/Damage ratio. You want this guy gone, and you want it fast.

X-Force is simply better than CTS. It's really not even close.

Wolarsen

by Budget Player Cadet » Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:54 am
All this poll proves is that there are a lot of people who are bad at MPQ.

Or maybe less people have WR / X-Force and cannot rate those moves as other people, so they choose CotS.

Some attittude in this thread, Cadet. I do not recall you being so cutting in other forums.

Unknown

What? People are wrong and their reasons for being wrong are bad. I'd like to think I'm not being too much of a jerk about it, but the fact is that thinking World Rupture is worse than CTS at this point is like thinking Tarmogoyf is a bad card - if you think that, you're wrong, and probably bad at the game. I won't hold thinking Xforce is worse than CTS against people, because it takes some real thought and they're a lot closer, but if you think WR is worse, you're wrong. And if your reason for thinking that is "we're looking at skills outside their context of the metagame", then your reasoning is really, really bad. And that frustrates me.

The metagame is what defines the value of a skill in the first place. And it's frustrating to see that. It's one thing to disregard the character's stats - Fireball is good no matter who you give it to, because the only thing red ever does is direct damage and we can make a direct comparison and say "Regardless of what stats or abilities anyone has, Fireball is cheap and has the best Damage:AP comparison, so it's going to be good". But it's another thing to ignore the skill's interactions. If the meta was centralized around Falcon+Daken+Psylocke, Dormammu's Aid would suck, because almost all of your damage would come from passives or skills that are too cheap to reasonably deny. If character's match damage and life were toned up to 11 but their skills were not adjusted to match, Unstoppable Crash and Lightning Storm would be way, way better. But that's not the meta we're in - Dormammu's Aid is good because we rely on building AP in multiple colors, or a lot of AP in one color for high-damage nukes that end games quickly. Unstoppable Crash is bad because match damage is not significant compared to power damage.

I'm sorry if I seem rude, but this argument is really dumb. The fact that anything even comes close to World Rupture is indicative that people don't get just how completely broken the skill is, or how important the meta actually is. WR defines the endgame in MPQ at this point in an unhealthy way. It's not just OP - it's in a league of its own.

over_clocked

Most players simply don't have access to X-Force, not even in their matchups, unlike lazy Thor.

ronin_san

GSBW's Sniper Rifle is manageable because she can generate HEAPS of greens to land it. That's why it's not #1. I have a 5* 166+ Team-up of the same ability that just collects dust.

If She had 8k hit points, people would call for it to be nerfed. Her weakness; that chance she dies before it goes off, is another reason it's not #1.

If Thor has 2-3k less HPs, Call the Storm is good but tougher to sustain.

Spoit

ronin-san wrote:

GSBW's Sniper Rifle is manageable because she can generate HEAPS of greens to land it. That's why it's not #1. I have a 5* 166+ Team-up of the same ability that just collects dust.

If She had 8k hit points, people would call for it to be nerfed. Her weakness; that chance she dies before it goes off, is another reason it's not #1.

If Thor has 2-3k less HPs, Call the Storm is good but tougher to sustain.

Well the HP helps, but it's also important to note that LT is one of the characters that the AI can actually play well. Whereas you'd be lucky to get even 2 matches when it tries to cast OBW's purple.

Unknown

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

All this poll proves is that there are a lot of people who are bad at MPQ.

World rupture is meta-defining in a way that no other skill is. It literally defines the experience of top tier players. MPQ without World Rupture would be like SSBB without Metakinght - totally different to the point that it'd be difficult to see what the tier list would look like. Or hell, it'd be like MPQ without the old C.Mags. Seeing the analogy? Notice how much worse Patch is now?

But even ignoring that, and pretending we're looking at skills alone, I'm sorry, but CTS is simply not as good as X-Force. It just isn't. It does marginally more damage per AP, but misses out on the massive cascades that destroying 15 tiles can and in practice very often does cause - keeping in mind here that Unstoppable crash is still pretty damn playable at 6AP just for 16 random tiles. Even before considering the metagame, XForce breaks just about even.

But if you consider the meta (which you absolutely absolutely absolutely should, because a skill being "good" outside the metagame is about as meaningful as a cake recipe being "good" compared to dirt and gravel), XForce easily comes out on top. A lot of the time, you want heavy, cheap burst damage rather than slower AOE nukes. Even if we ignore AP steal completely, the fact is that the cheaper your skill is, the worse its AP/Damage ratio should be, because faster skills means a faster time taking out problematic targets. But factor in a meta where Hood is absolutely everywhere, and where Green is the most high-demand color? One X-Force will almost down a maxed-out Hood, and 8 AP isn't very difficult, even with his awesome denial capabilities. 14 is considerably harder. And if you're facing a hood, you're going to be sinking match damage into him, meaning that a decent portion of your CtS may well be wasted on the enemy team. If the team also has Patch or Daken, two very common characters, they might end up soaking up a lot of that AOE damage through regeneration before the character you're focused on dies. Single-target doesn't have that issue. You can blow up a problematic target, or just take a huge chunk out of their tank. Again, just for emphasis. The fact that Hood is so popular in the meta makes an 8-AP 4k nuke infinitely more valuable than a 14-AP attack with an only slightly better AP/Damage ratio. You want this guy gone, and you want it fast.

X-Force is simply better than CTS. It's really not even close.

I think we've all determined from this series of threads that you hate the Sentry Hood combo.

You don't need to reiterate every 15 seconds.

Unknown

People are going to vote for what they have and what has won them battles. Call of the Storm is getting more votes because there's both a 2* and a 3* version, and 2* Thor carries a lot of people through the 2* transition. I'd say it's inferior to X-Force as well even without a max-level x-force. Torch's Flame Jet does more damage in just a few turns (in that range) and is far more versatile. Berserker Rage probably would have been top 3 before the Mags nerf. What are you going to do? Not everyone is at the top tier with maxed everything. This is just a stupid poll; don't take it too seriously.

Maybe when more people have maxed Beast's he'll actually get some votes? Nah, no one's going to actually aim for a maxed beast.

Jathro

My reasoning for choosing X-Force, Call the Storm, and Judgment over World Rupture is that, while World Rupture is indeed powerful, to me it doesn't truly become game breaking until strike tiles are factored in. Call and X-Force speak for themselves with how powerful and cost-effective they are. And Judgment is simply that good as a stand alone ability - board disruption and the best strike tiles (with no drawbacks).

Having said that, maybe I should have voted for World Rupture to help call in the nerf bat.

Unknown

Jathro wrote:

My reasoning for choosing X-Force, Call the Storm, and Judgment over World Rupture is that, while World Rupture is indeed powerful, to me it doesn't truly become game breaking until strike tiles are factored in. Call and X-Force speak for themselves with how powerful and cost-effective they are. And Judgment is simply that good as a stand alone ability - board disruption and the best strike tiles (with no drawbacks).

Having said that, maybe I should have voted for World Rupture to help call in the nerf bat.

Aye, World Rupture, on its own, isn't game-breaking. Just like Yawgmoth's Will, on its own, isn't game-breaking.

(For those not in the know, Yawgmoth's Will is a card in Magic: The Gathering which allows you to play cards from your graveyard as though they were in your hand until the end of the turn. Any card sent to your graveyard this turn will be removed from the game. It happens to be the single most broken "I win" in the history of the game - if you resolve a Yawgmoth's Will and your deck is able to use it, the game is over. No ifs, ands, or buts - you drop that card, and your opponent, functionally, has two choices: have a counterspell ready, or scoop.)

(Also, FTR, Battleplan is way more strike tile damage than Judgement. )

Jathro

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

(Also, FTR, Battleplan is way more strike tile damage than Judgement. )

I sit corrected.

Pylgrim

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

All this poll proves is that there are a lot of people who are bad at MPQ.

Budget Player Cadet wrote:

What? People are wrong and their reasons for being wrong are bad.

"Everybody is an imbecile and wrong and I am a genius and the sole holder of the one and only truth. If I sound rude is just because stupid people cannot withstand my brilliance".

Congratulations on having a maxed X-Force that can down Hoods with a single hit. I won't ask your prodigious intellect to stoop to consider the trivial fact that the greatest majority of players don't even have X-Force, but surely, after uncounted centuries of sublime wisdom you have considered, if only briefly, that people are entitled to their opinions, which are informed by their personal experiences. So I'll ask of you but a smidgen of patience to tolerate our collective incompetence through the millennia it will take us to reach your god-like all-knowledge.

Unknown

My X-Force has one cover. I'm just dumb enough to keep running into fights with people who do. Because that's where the meta has gone - if you want to place well, you have to bite the bullet and eat **** waffles, which in this case amounts to fighting really unpleasant things like Xforce+C.Mags or Hulk+Patch.