Sentry/Daken/Hood/Shield Hopping

Raffoon

So, I haven't seen a thread on these topics in a while. I'm staring at a horrifying example currently. My Fatal Attraction bracket right now has 4 of the top 5 hovering around 1100, while one intrepid fellow is up at 1800 (and by the way he has a maxed Fury, so really, why is he even bothering? Couldn't he share the covers a bit with others?)

It got me thinking. I know there have been plenty of threads about the Dream Team, and there have been threads about shield hopping too. The thing is that alone, either of these might be more bearable, but combined they have a multiplicative effect that completely warps the structure of the game.

Unless you're playing Sentry/Daken/Hood or some very close derivative that includes Sentry +1 of the above, and unless you're also paying a large amount of HP to shield hop, you stand no chance of competing with people who are doing both of these things together. The people at 1100 are either shield hopping to at least some degree with strong teams, or they're running Sentry/Daken/Hood themselves and shielding once or twice. OK, that's seems at least somewhat reasonable. The guy at 1800 is shield hopping 2-5 times as often as anyone else (read, paying lots and lots of HP) and is playing a team that is so strong it is the exclusive team of people with the highest point totals.

So, the developers seem to be making some positive strides lately in terms of the game. How long until we can compete at a top level with a variety of characters and rosters instead of having Sentry be mandatory for any score above 1300?

Unknown

I've passed 1300 twice this month using none of the mentioned players....

It's not easy, but doable. I don't have $$$ to burn, either, so I've figured out how to get there without both. Didn't make it this pvp, because things don't always go to plan, but that's part of playing a game

Figuring it out based on what you have and adjusting how you play is the hard part. I guess that's the "puzzle" part.

Edit: I never plan for 1st place. Only progression rewards if they're juicy. Chasing 1st kind of takes the fun out of it... If you need to be better than someone, go play sports. It's also good for you!

Ludaa

I started shield hopping with Sentry more than once or twice recently, so I'm guilty of this. Since they haven't offered up anything great to spend HP on, I saved up a good stash.

It seems they've changed mmr thresholds such that shield hoppers may have to use one more, a bit earlier than usual. This might have combated super high scores...if they didn't purposely group 7 or 8 high scoring players into death brackets. They are making the rewards harder(more costly) to get.

Unknown

Ludaa wrote:

I started shield hopping with Sentry more than once or twice recently, so I'm guilty of this. Since they haven't offered up anything great to spend HP on, I saved up a good stash.

It seems they've changed mmr thresholds such that shield hoppers may have to use one more, a bit earlier than usual. This might have combated super high scores...if they didn't purposely group 7 or 8 high scoring players into death brackets. They are making the rewards harder(more costly) to get.

This is the best example of MPQ's theory of how to fix the game, but if they played it, they would know it would have the opposite effect.

They changed the MMR threshold so people would have to shield hop earlier and lower scores overall. As any who actually plays can tell you, those that shield hop are still shield hopping and scores are outrageous even when the top rewards are not offered. The actual effect has been to make it harder for new and transitioning players to reach progressive rewards that they were previously able to reach.

The only thing that could make it worse is if they made the change in an unannounced or ninja method.

Oh, wait. It's worse.

I_am_Zero

Jameson2014 wrote:

I've passed 1300 twice this month using none of the mentioned players....

It's not easy, but doable. I don't have $$$ to burn, either, so I've figured out how to get there without both. Didn't make it this pvp, because things don't always go to plan, but that's part of playing a game

And how many times did you do it with one of those mentioned players?

Unknown

My sentry sucks. Lol.

Daken and hood are underpowered for me as well... so, zero times. Add X force to my list of not-yets, too.

...I wish it were not zero times.

I'll get there eventually. Just in time for a big fat nerf bat extravaganza!

mohio

My take on this topic in short...

This team isn't even really all that hard to beat. You can bring your own hood and then it's just not getting killed by cascades. Or you can boost or otherwise burst down hood fast and then sentry/daken isn't all that hard to beat with the 3 guys you brought.

The problem with this team though is you can't get anywhere near as fast as them. So, you could beat them for huge points with other high tier characters, but you only get in maybe 2 matches in a shield hop. Bring this threesome and you manage 4 matches instead of 2 cause they take 30 seconds or a minute. In one pvp a few weeks ago I managed to hop from mid 900s to low 1100s in one go and then up to 1300 in the next shield hop cause I could max boost with sentry/hood and win super fast. Sure I could have made it wih a different team but it would have cost me more time and more hp.

reckless442

mohio wrote:

My take on this topic in short...

This team isn't even really all that hard to beat. You can bring your own hood and then it's just not getting killed by cascades. Or you can boost or otherwise burst down hood fast and then sentry/daken isn't all that hard to beat with the 3 guys you brought.

The problem with this team though is you can't get anywhere near as fast as them. So, you could beat them for huge points with other high tier characters, but you only get in maybe 2 matches in a shield hop. Bring this threesome and you manage 4 matches instead of 2 cause they take 30 seconds or a minute. In one pvp a few weeks ago I managed to hop from mid 900s to low 1100s in one go and then up to 1300 in the next shield hop cause I could max boost with sentry/hood and win super fast. Sure I could have made it wih a different team but it would have cost me more time and more hp.

You've also highlighted another huge problem with Sentry, which I pointed out when Sentry hopping first began. The speed at which Sentry/Daken or Sentry/Hood attacks forces other players to use the team to minimize the time they are exposed between shields. While an X-Force/Daken team is lethal, it just takes more turns to defeat an opponent, which means that in the time you fight two battles with that team, even boosted, you can be losing more battles to Sentry/Daken or Sentry/Hood teams below you. What good is it if you are at 1200, hitting a 30-pt target, if you take two -40 losses during that match because the speed of boosted Sentry teams allows opponents to queue and attack you before you can complete your match and reshield? So using Sentry almost becomes a necessity.

For fun, you can see the thread I started in June on this subject: http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10158. At that point, a number of people responded that Sentry wasn't really a big problem because only big spenders would actually use him in PVP.

Unknown

@ reckless : exactly.

I try to play something else than Hood/Sentry, but as you said, it takes too much time, sometimes to even complete 1 match.

There are many "side" tips to end up in easier brackets, less shield hop... But above 1300, it's not that easy, unless a deadly PvE is running...

wymtime

I ended up to use my HP to get Blue Hood covers so I could shield hop better in PVP. I don't go for the 1300+ but having Sentry with Hood/LDaken is the best way to fit in the last couple battles you want to win. I think Sentry/Hood is the better Defensive team as most people will find easier targets worth similar points in the 700-1000 point range so they also work to keep your place in PVP a little easier as well especially in this last even with LDaken as the buffed character.

Raffoon

reckless442 wrote:

mohio wrote:

My take on this topic in short...

This team isn't even really all that hard to beat. You can bring your own hood and then it's just not getting killed by cascades. Or you can boost or otherwise burst down hood fast and then sentry/daken isn't all that hard to beat with the 3 guys you brought.

The problem with this team though is you can't get anywhere near as fast as them. So, you could beat them for huge points with other high tier characters, but you only get in maybe 2 matches in a shield hop. Bring this threesome and you manage 4 matches instead of 2 cause they take 30 seconds or a minute. In one pvp a few weeks ago I managed to hop from mid 900s to low 1100s in one go and then up to 1300 in the next shield hop cause I could max boost with sentry/hood and win super fast. Sure I could have made it wih a different team but it would have cost me more time and more hp.

You've also highlighted another huge problem with Sentry, which I pointed out when Sentry hopping first began. The speed at which Sentry/Daken or Sentry/Hood attacks forces other players to use the team to minimize the time they are exposed between shields. While an X-Force/Daken team is lethal, it just takes more turns to defeat an opponent, which means that in the time you fight two battles with that team, even boosted, you can be losing more battles to Sentry/Daken or Sentry/Hood teams below you. What good is it if you are at 1200, hitting a 30-pt target, if you take two -40 losses during that match because the speed of boosted Sentry teams allows opponents to queue and attack you before you can complete your match and reshield? So using Sentry almost becomes a necessity.

For fun, you can see the thread I started in June on this subject: http://www.d3pforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10158. At that point, a number of people responded that Sentry wasn't really a big problem because only big spenders would actually use him in PVP.

Yup, the speed is a huge issue. Playing 4 games before reshielding is HUGE vs playing 2.