The Gauntlet.... Really?

Unknown

_RiO_ wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

This is finally a true PVE event where you don't need to compete for your prizes, you simply play to get them. Because of this, logically it should be scaled steeply. You should have to earn your prizes whether there is competition or not.
People think the prizes aren't worth it? That is hilarious, I will gladly take down some random AIs to earn a bunch of ISO AND needed 3*s.

Facing down level 160+ enemies is not something a player with a 2*->3* transitioning roster can do for extended amount of matches without considerably amount of retries and luck or considerably ISO or HP investement on boosts. Yet precisely the players that are transitioning from 2* to 3* right now have most to gain from older 3* covers as are being offered by the Gauntlet event. Cost/benefit says that at the presented level of challenge, the rewards are not worth it for the audience that stands to gain most from them. What's so hard to understand about that?

We're not saying there should be no challenge at all. We're not saying that the challenge should not be steep.
We are, however, saying that currently the challenge is set too steep. And that is all we are saying.

A transitioning player facing 160 teams has a far easier time than a maxed roster facing level 300+ enemies. They have it easier than the max 3* players but of course they'll still complain. Yes if you don't have the right 3* for the essentials or support it can be pretty tough, but it still doesn't compare to fighting guys that can kill you by just matching tiles.

Unknown

I'd like to compare this event to a new game at a fair. The employees direct you to a play area where you have to throw down a Frisbee at a bottle to win. Because it is so intriguingly new you spend heaps of money playing, hitting the bottle numerous times without the bottle toppling over. You find out that the bottle is made of one of the heaviest material on earth and is not supposed to be toppled unless you have a cannon for an arm. You glance to the next play area to observe a young lady topple hers repeatedly because her bottle is made out of plastic instead. So you walk away from the game penniless and dreaming that you were that little girl instead... (I have a transitional 2 to 3 star roster so my bottle is probably just filled with lead but still...)

RemoDestroyer

If I was to use 3 boosts and pull a yelena from a standard token as a reward I'm not so sure I can call that round a win. For the player that has no intention of using the 3* rewards that amounts to playing many difficult match ups for 500 iso. If you can use those covers I'd say it may worth it. If I was just farming iso the shield sim or lightning rounds arr probably better options.

Unknown

futongus wrote:

I'd like to compare this event to a new game at a fair. The employees direct you to a play area where you have to throw down a Frisbee at a bottle to win. Because it is so intriguingly new you spend heaps of money playing, hitting the bottle numerous times without the bottle toppling over. You find out that the bottle is made of one of the heaviest material on earth and is not supposed to be toppled unless you have a cannon for an arm. You glance to the next play area to observe a young lady topple hers repeatedly because her bottle is made out of plastic instead. So you walk away from the game penniless and dreaming that you were that little girl instead... (I have a transitional 2 to 3 star roster so my bottle is probably just filled with lead but still...)

Well it's more like the bottle is made out of lead because they figured you're on steroids, which might be true, but it's probably still harder to do that compared to the normal guy trying to knock down a plastic bottle. The justification is not entirely unfounded but the game simply doesn't work when you try to balance by a formula without even testing this stuff, and yes I'm sure this stuff isn't tested because it'd be really obvious something is wrong with the finale bracket if you're facing the 395s no matter who you have.

spydoorman

j12601 wrote:

DuffManOhYeah wrote:

It's called the GAUNTLET for a reason. It's supposed to be hard and challenging for the veterans with maxed 166 rosters. If it was supposed to be a cakewalk, they would rename the event "a walk in the park with Bagman".

I so want to play a new PVE called "An Unexpectedly Fun Journey - Bilbo Bagman's Tale"

This makes me want to be your friend so I can share my loot with you.

Oh And my axe!

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

The challenge is fine if everyone is facing the same challenge but this is clearly not the case. The 2*s that completed this didn't beat guys that can kill your entire team with match damage alone, because 2* don't have the kind of combos that'd have any chance against such enemies.

Hi, 2* player here. I have a good amount of 3* characters but none are ideally developed and most are around level 90.

I took one look at the final event with L275 Sentry, Xforce and OBW. And stomped them. Yeah I used Storm/Mags but they were boosted and why shouldn't I?

I found the event fairly interesting. Some fights were a challenge. A couple I dropped ISO on for AP boosts. Sometimes I had to wait for Health packs to regenerate or characters to heal. No one said you had to finish it one play session.

It helped that I needed all 3*'s rewarded, the ISO and I got lucky with a Hulk cover from one of the tokens. Good event. Kind of refreshing from the grind Essential nodes every 2.5 hours that make up most PVE.

scottee

Um, I don't know what to say to this thread.

Though I do think something worth playing for, like a 4* at the end would have been nice. Not sure if I'll end up completing the last couple missions, depending if I need the health packs for PVP or not.

But I love all alliance-mates, past and present. And wish we could all just share a giant box of virtual donuts.

nic13

ivanstone wrote:

Phantron wrote:

The challenge is fine if everyone is facing the same challenge but this is clearly not the case. The 2*s that completed this didn't beat guys that can kill your entire team with match damage alone, because 2* don't have the kind of combos that'd have any chance against such enemies.

Hi, 2* player here. I have a good amount of 3* characters but none are ideally developed and most are around level 90.

I took one look at the final event with L275 Sentry, Xforce and OBW. And stomped them. Yeah I used Storm/Mags but they were boosted and why shouldn't I?

I found the event fairly interesting. Some fights were a challenge. A couple I dropped ISO on for AP boosts. Sometimes I had to wait for Health packs to regenerate or characters to heal. No one said you had to finish it one play session.

It helped that I needed all 3*'s rewarded, the ISO and I got lucky with a Hulk cover from one of the tokens. Good event. Kind of refreshing from the grind Essential nodes every 2.5 hours that make up most PVE.

I echo this. At the start of the event, I only had LThor and LCap above lv 100. Used a fair number of boosts and burnt Deadpool points on the last Sentry match (using a team-up I saved from the last Sim), but managed to complete all matches and got the three 3* covers. Didn't use any healthpacks - just waited for them to regenerate or characters to heal. We have over three days to complete the event, I think it's just right.

It did annoy me to death that i kept getting critical boosts as match rewards (when there were 500 ISOs available!!).

However, I do prefer the old PVE structure, where if i grinded, I could get all three covers, and occasionally, the top prize. If everybody is progressing on the same scale, us n00bs will never catch up.

Unknown

I agree that the event have some problems that can be easily solved for the next time. The rewards structure can have a fix, you need a BP to earn a BP.

I suggest the devs to change the order of the progression rewards, so newer players can get a cover. And please take away the 20 ISO rewards for the nodes. Using boosts and luck to earn with 20 ISO is really bad. About scaling, other people already pointed out the problems.

And please, i really think some players dont respect other people opinions, quadiak just tried to express his.

Unknown

If you're a 2* player you have no idea what it's like to face level 395s. Very few guys do because even at the height of Spiderman power very few people really got that high and if they did they usually just gave up because the level 395 guys are designed to defeat even Spiderman a considerable percentage of the time. You may think you know what it's like to face 395s because you see a 275 but 275 is cakewalk compared to 395. You don't have to worry about an equivalent of a 5 turn clock because that's how long the key guys you need can survive against their match 3s before they die. AP consuming moves? Every one of them is instant kill at that level as long as it did damage. Denying colors? Why does that even matter against guys who can kill you with just match 3s? Boosts? You don't attempt stuff above level 300 without them unless you want to waste 3 health packs.

Dauthi

_RiO_ wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

This is finally a true PVE event where you don't need to compete for your prizes, you simply play to get them. Because of this, logically it should be scaled steeply. You should have to earn your prizes whether there is competition or not.
People think the prizes aren't worth it? That is hilarious, I will gladly take down some random AIs to earn a bunch of ISO AND needed 3*s.

Facing down level 160+ enemies is not something a player with a 2*->3* transitioning roster can do for extended amount of matches without considerably amount of retries and luck or considerably ISO or HP investement on boosts. Yet precisely the players that are transitioning from 2* to 3* right now have most to gain from older 3* covers as are being offered by the Gauntlet event. Cost/benefit says that at the presented level of challenge, the rewards are not worth it for the audience that stands to gain most from them. What's so hard to understand about that?

We're not saying there should be no challenge at all. We're not saying that the challenge should not be steep.
We are, however, saying that currently the challenge is set too steep. And that is all we are saying.

The PVE scales everyone based on (as far as I can tell) their roster. Yes, it is hard, but people are doing it regardless. How much is a needed cover worth to them? Enough to grind away the last few days, myself included.

The amount of tries you can attempt to do this PVE is only limited to the amount of time you have to play over the course of the PVE itself. This feels no different than progression in the game which is equivalent to the amount of time you are willing to sink into it. I don't understand the entitlement that everyone should be a top player in this event.

futongus wrote:

I'd like to compare this event to a new game at a fair. The employees direct you to a play area where you have to throw down a Frisbee at a bottle to win. Because it is so intriguingly new you spend heaps of money playing, hitting the bottle numerous times without the bottle toppling over. You find out that the bottle is made of one of the heaviest material on earth and is not supposed to be toppled unless you have a cannon for an arm. You glance to the next play area to observe a young lady topple hers repeatedly because her bottle is made out of plastic instead. So you walk away from the game penniless and dreaming that you were that little girl instead... (I have a transitional 2 to 3 star roster so my bottle is probably just filled with lead but still...)

This is not a good comparison, unless the game was free to play. Also, it is only an opinion that people have unfair advantages in this PVE. I believe this PVE is extremely hard for everyone across the board, and even if there are discrepancies it would be like (in your analogy) one person having the heaviest metal on earth the the other the second heaviest and it being possible for either person to topple it over time.

The battles are crazy, and many of them require a good amount of luck and planning. I enjoyed that, after defeating the node, I moved on to a different fight. I thoroughly hate grinding essential nodes.

Lloyd Christmas

I totally get what quadiak is saying about the reward structure. I could really use another BP cover so I will play until I get it. The thing that bothers me is that I needed nothing from the first event except opening up the next event that has something I want. Personally I found it a bit tedious and not that much fun.

That being said I guess it's potentially a step in the right direction. It almost seems like the devs were only half listening to what was being talked about in the forums. I know I've been hoping for more storyline in the format like the prologue. Something we could just play as players without constantly pitting us against one another. Also with some decent rewards. The gauntlet has none of this. I have read that some people have found it relaxing but honestly for me the only relaxing I have done during this event has been watching tv while all my characters heal.

My $.02

Unknown

Dauthi wrote:

This is not a good comparison, unless the game was free to play. Also, it is only an opinion that people have unfair advantages in this PVE. I believe this PVE is extremely hard for everyone across the board, and even if there are discrepancies it would be like (in your analogy) one person having the heaviest metal on earth the the other the second heaviest and it being possible for either person to topple it over time.

The battles are crazy, and many of them require a good amount of luck and planning. I enjoyed that, after defeating the node, I moved on to a different fight. I thoroughly hate grinding essential nodes.

It's not an opinion that people have unfair advantages in this event. If they say for the duration of this event you get pre nerf Magneto back then it'd be solidly in favor of the max rosters again. You simply can't say 'max 2* with boosted characters versus 275 is totally the same as max roster versus 395'. This game is far too complicated to make sweeping statements like that, and if max roster included a pre nerf Magneto or Spiderman it'd actually be very easy for the max roster while the 2* would be screwed. Usually the game is in favor of those guys with maxed out roster but having maxed out roster should have some kind of advantage because otherwise why even bother? This event the balance is solidly in the opposite way and while anomalies are okay, you can't have a system where people with superior rosters are routinely punished.

Unknown

I'm at Simulation 40 and I don't have a single character over 94. I might not be able to finish it but I'm walking away with a screen full of lvl 200+ TUs, a grey widow cover, a BP cover and some HP. I can't fathom why people are being such babies about this.

Those two covers alone are better than anything I got from the entirety of the last event, where I placed top 5 in the subs.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

This is not a good comparison, unless the game was free to play. Also, it is only an opinion that people have unfair advantages in this PVE. I believe this PVE is extremely hard for everyone across the board, and even if there are discrepancies it would be like (in your analogy) one person having the heaviest metal on earth the the other the second heaviest and it being possible for either person to topple it over time.

The battles are crazy, and many of them require a good amount of luck and planning. I enjoyed that, after defeating the node, I moved on to a different fight. I thoroughly hate grinding essential nodes.

It's not an opinion that people have unfair advantages in this event. If they say for the duration of this event you get pre nerf Magneto back then it'd be solidly in favor of the max rosters again. You simply can't say 'max 2* with boosted characters versus 275 is totally the same as max roster versus 395'. This game is far too complicated to make sweeping statements like that, and if max roster included a pre nerf Magneto or Spiderman it'd actually be very easy for the max roster while the 2* would be screwed. Usually the game is in favor of those guys with maxed out roster but having maxed out roster should have some kind of advantage because otherwise why even bother? This event the balance is solidly in the opposite way and while anomalies are okay, you can't have a system where people with superior rosters are routinely punished.

I agree but I can't really think of a way that the last nodes would be balanced for a maxed roster. Can you?

Does sentry bombing it not kill it?

kidicarus

ark123 wrote:

I agree but I can't really think of a way that the last nodes would be balanced for a maxed roster. Can you?

Does sentry bombing it not kill it?

You can't sentry bomb the last node because 395sentry is on the opposing team.

Nellyson

I absolutely need these gauntlet rewards! I'm at the finale. 1 day left....this PVE has blown my mind in how great it has been. I get it's not for everybody and the rewards are a little lackluster, but this is the experimentation phase. You can't seriously expect super awesome oh Hell yeah rewards. Those will come later when scaling is figured out. To quasiki (I know I got it wrong, but I find any of your posts to get the name right, so sorry! Don't hate me) I get the frustrations. I like seeing all the good and bad about the gauntlet. But overall, this is going to be the right way to go for PVE.

kidicarus

ark123 wrote:

I'm at Simulation 40 and I don't have a single character over 94. I might not be able to finish it but I'm walking away with a screen full of lvl 200+ TUs, a grey widow cover, a BP cover and some HP. I can't fathom why people are being such babies about this.

Those two covers alone are better than anything I got from the entirety of the last event, where I placed top 5 in the subs.

I actually managed to get through 41 nodes without using boosts but had to boost for the 395 sentry node. So I feel the difficulty is challenging and doable. However

While i'm glad that you made it that far, how would you feel if, after you applied your covers and levelled your roster a bit, you only made it as far as sim 38, and the next time this event was run, after you had levelled your characters a bit more - you only made it as far as sim 36. That's what the scaling seems to be doing as far as I can tell. Wouldn't you prefer to feel better by making further progress in the gauntlet every time you improved your roster?

Unknown

Dauthi wrote:

The PVE scales everyone based on (as far as I can tell) their roster. Yes, it is hard, but people are doing it regardless. How much is a needed cover worth to them? Enough to grind away the last few days, myself included.

The amount of tries you can attempt to do this PVE is only limited to the amount of time you have to play over the course of the PVE itself. This feels no different than progression in the game which is equivalent to the amount of time you are willing to sink into it. I don't understand the entitlement that everyone should be a top player in this event.

futongus wrote:

I'd like to compare this event to a new game at a fair. The employees direct you to a play area where you have to throw down a Frisbee at a bottle to win. Because it is so intriguingly new you spend heaps of money playing, hitting the bottle numerous times without the bottle toppling over. You find out that the bottle is made of one of the heaviest material on earth and is not supposed to be toppled unless you have a cannon for an arm. You glance to the next play area to observe a young lady topple hers repeatedly because her bottle is made out of plastic instead. So you walk away from the game penniless and dreaming that you were that little girl instead... (I have a transitional 2 to 3 star roster so my bottle is probably just filled with lead but still...)

This is not a good comparison, unless the game was free to play. Also, it is only an opinion that people have unfair advantages in this PVE. I believe this PVE is extremely hard for everyone across the board, and even if there are discrepancies it would be like (in your analogy) one person having the heaviest metal on earth the the other the second heaviest and it being possible for either person to topple it over time.

The battles are crazy, and many of them require a good amount of luck and planning. I enjoyed that, after defeating the node, I moved on to a different fight. I thoroughly hate grinding essential nodes.

You are certainly correct when you mention it was my opinion and my opinion only that certain players have advantages based on what status their list is currently at. Also true that given time anyone can topple the nodes over time regardless of the status of their list. But say that you have a chance to win at 25% and at 1% is not the same thing. Personally all the information I can gather to form my opinions are looking at my own experience plus some others on this board plus a few of my friends in various stages of the development of their rosters from 1 star to 3. Not nearly representative of the whole set of players who play this game but as good as I'm going to get. From the anecdotal accounts of other forumites it seems like there's a large amount of players in the Max 2 stars range that are in the top rankers in this event as is the same in my bracket (7 of the top 10). Having also observed my wife playing with her 2 star maxed players I'd say that she looks to be having a much easier time than I do. does that mean that she is just luckier than I am with her matches and ap gen? Probably, but it's not nearly as punishing as I'm finding it with my roster with around 3 level 110 3 stars. Because I do need all the covers on offer I'm willing to sink alot of time into it. But when I get constantly beaten with full boosts using various combos even without the opposition getting any meaningful cascades it seems to me that demiurge has just put a brick wall there and asked you to go no further. I'll keep on trying to pass the nodes by praying for a cascade of biblical proportions because I've invested too much to give up. Does this mean I look to my wife and wish her difficulty to be the same as mine? No, relatively newer players need the helping hand for them to progress. Do I think that demiurge did this on purpose? No, probably only the formulas need tweaking. Would happily reconsider my opinion should there be data proving otherwise but from what I've seen so far there is only one conclusion that I can reach.

Unknown

kidicarus wrote:

ark123 wrote:

I'm at Simulation 40 and I don't have a single character over 94. I might not be able to finish it but I'm walking away with a screen full of lvl 200+ TUs, a grey widow cover, a BP cover and some HP. I can't fathom why people are being such babies about this.

Those two covers alone are better than anything I got from the entirety of the last event, where I placed top 5 in the subs.

I actually managed to get through 41 nodes without using boosts but had to boost for the 395 sentry node. So I feel the difficulty is challenging and doable. However

While i'm glad that you made it that far, how would you feel if, after you applied your covers and levelled your roster a bit, you only made it as far as sim 38, and the next time this event was run, after you had levelled your characters a bit more - you only made it as far as sim 36. That's what the scaling seems to be doing as far as I can tell. Wouldn't you prefer to feel better by making further progress in the gauntlet every time you improved your roster?

I don't think that happens. See, the reason I got this far is pretty simple - cstorm+mnmags. These guys together mean that I can beat pretty much any node if I get lucky. Since that includes a bunch of nodes with characters like lvl100++ fury/sentry/etc that can give me comically high damage TUs, I just used those to get past the nodes where I couldn't use the combo. I imagine next time Gauntlet comes around I'll have more than one possible combo (sentry bombing always sounded fun, and so does falcon+cmags shennanigans). If not? Eh. It's not like there won't be another placement PvE in three days or so. Plus hulk covers in pvp? Fun for the entire day if I wanted to ignore the Gauntlet.

I did give up a couple times. I proclaimed the last node of the first part to be impossible. Then came back and beat it. Did the same on Node 34. Stupid Sentry. I just got through beating node 42 though, so clearly I was wrong, and beating those nodes?

Way more fun than grinding one regular PvE node six times before moving on the the next one.