Do some of the harder PVE opponents have 15 covers?

Unknown

In the "No-Funisher" mission, all of the opponents seems to have 15 covers some how bypassing the 13 cover limit.

one of the opponent for me is a lvl 104 Patch and he have the following powers

Green: Deals 1439 damage and creates 6 strike tiles for each team. Since its 6 strike tiles each team, seems to me this is at 5 covers
Red: Deals 174 damage for each tile. Since this is above the 4 cover max of 137 damage per tile, seems like this is 5 covers as well.
Yellow: Restores 300 health every turn, so this seems to be at 5 covers as well.

For the Lvl 104 Daredevil
Purple: When matched steals 6 AP of every color, so definitely 5 covers
Blue: stun for 6 turns, so definitely 5 covers again
Red: Deals 6232 damage at Lvl 104, so definitely 5 covers again.

For Lvl 105 Punisher
Black: 2 turn count down, so definitely 5 covers
Green: Creates 3 strike tiles, so definitely 5 covers again
Red: down target if health is below 40%, so 5 covers again


Am I using outdated Cover info or do these enemies really have 15 covers instead of 13?

Unknown

yep as soon as they are over a certain level threshold they get all 15 covers

Unknown

The number of covers is a function of the node's difficulty and their level, but once the enemy hit a certain level they will have 5/5/5 covers even on the easy nodes, though easy nodes aren't likely to have enemies high enough to hit that automatic 5/5/5 threshold. Generally speaking anything above level 100 probably has 5/5/5.

homeinvasion

What's the whole reason for the 13 covers? wouldn't 15 make more money?

Unknown

homeinvasion wrote:

What's the whole reason for the 13 covers? wouldn't 15 make more money?

Similar to a talent tree in a MMORPG this is supposed to provide variety on character builds. Similar to a talent tree in MMORPG this means in reality people just stick with 1 or at most 2 different setup that's clearly superior to everything else.

over_clocked

I especially love how low level seed teams happen to get oBW's Aggressive Recon TUp at 1-2 covers, meaning it costs just 5-7 TUAP and is much, much more dangerous than the one that costs 10-11 AP.
PvE oBW? Always at the 'optimal' 5/5/5 build meaning her expensive Recon is easy to laugh at, so we have that going for us!

Unknown

locked wrote:

I especially love how low level seed teams happen to get oBW's Aggressive Recon TUp at 1-2 covers, meaning it costs just 5-7 TUAP and is much, much more dangerous than the one that costs 10-11 AP.
PvE oBW? Always at the 'optimal' 5/5/5 build meaning her expensive Recon is easy to laugh at, so we have that going for us!

The PvE version of OBW is almost never affected by the fact that AR5 takes a while to use because she usually has levels far above what a normal OBW could have. We kind of lucked out on the Deadpool event where OBW is only level 85 at 5/5/5, which is indeed pretty easy, as opposed to level 185 or 285 with 5/5/5.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

locked wrote:

I especially love how low level seed teams happen to get oBW's Aggressive Recon TUp at 1-2 covers, meaning it costs just 5-7 TUAP and is much, much more dangerous than the one that costs 10-11 AP.
PvE oBW? Always at the 'optimal' 5/5/5 build meaning her expensive Recon is easy to laugh at, so we have that going for us!

The PvE version of OBW is almost never affected by the fact that AR5 takes a while to use because she usually has levels far above what a normal OBW could have. We kind of lucked out on the Deadpool event where OBW is only level 85 at 5/5/5, which is indeed pretty easy, as opposed to level 185 or 285 with 5/5/5.

A lvl 185 OBW with 3 cover in purple is still far more dangerous than a lvl 185 with 5 cover in purple.

Unknown

Justdangit wrote:

A lvl 185 OBW with 3 cover in purple is still far more dangerous than a lvl 185 with 5 cover in purple.

Disagree - in a vacuum, her 5 cover power is better than her 3 cover power (steals 24 ap vs 15 ap). The reason why people prefer to play her at 3 covers is that you can fire quicker at 8 instead of 11. However, because you steal 4 purple, secondary fires are at 7. When oBW is at lvl85, you can kill her before she gets to 11 ap. At lvl185, that is less likely. And once she gets to 11 ap, the 5 cover power is vastly superior for the reasons listed above (steals more, costs less for secondary fires)

Unknown

papa07 wrote:

Justdangit wrote:

A lvl 185 OBW with 3 cover in purple is still far more dangerous than a lvl 185 with 5 cover in purple.

Disagree - in a vacuum, her 5 cover power is better than her 3 cover power (steals 24 ap vs 15 ap). The reason why people prefer to play her at 3 covers is that you can fire quicker at 8 instead of 11. However, because you steal 4 purple, secondary fires are at 7. When oBW is at lvl85, you can kill her before she gets to 11 ap. At lvl185, that is less likely. And once she gets to 11 ap, the 5 cover power is vastly superior for the reasons listed above (steals more, costs less for secondary fires)

Just because it steal more doesnt mean it is better cause against a lvl 185, if she just get any aggressive recon at all mean you already lost, and you can forget about secondary fire.

Unknown

Justdangit wrote:

papa07 wrote:

Justdangit wrote:

A lvl 185 OBW with 3 cover in purple is still far more dangerous than a lvl 185 with 5 cover in purple.

Disagree - in a vacuum, her 5 cover power is better than her 3 cover power (steals 24 ap vs 15 ap). The reason why people prefer to play her at 3 covers is that you can fire quicker at 8 instead of 11. However, because you steal 4 purple, secondary fires are at 7. When oBW is at lvl85, you can kill her before she gets to 11 ap. At lvl185, that is less likely. And once she gets to 11 ap, the 5 cover power is vastly superior for the reasons listed above (steals more, costs less for secondary fires)

Just because it steal more doesnt mean it is better cause against a lvl 185, if she just get any aggressive recon at all mean you already lost, and you can forget about secondary fire.

For all the guys who swear OBW is balanced they sure also seem to be awfully convinced a single usage of AR3 is enough to win the game. I bet these guys always hit surrender as soon as the enemy has 8 purple AP because AR3 is just so unstoppable. It is not. I've plenty of games where the AI's super high level OBW got off AR5 and even more than once and as long as you didn't stockpile a ton of red/green that just means the game goes on for a very long time, though taking an AR5 is certainly far worse than taking an AR3 in a long game.

over_clocked

oBW is balanced by her lack of hitpoints and the Level Shift, even being buffed to level 270 in BoP did not make her any sturdier than standard characters.
If she's good against some lackluster 3*s, so are other 2*s, like cStorm/MMN, Ares, etc.

GrimSkald

I'm honestly not sure she is balanced - Aggressive Recon is a phenominal power than can litterally decide you the game, and Anti-Gravity Device is a good power that can save your butt if you get hit too hard too quickly. Espionage also means that she dominates her three colors against other characters.

All True Healing really did to her was change her from an absolutely required character for 2* teams to a really, really good one. There's a reason she's in almost every 2* team. Does she need a nerf? I dunno. But she's definitely a good character and can seriously hose you when she's boosted past 100.

Unknown

locked wrote:

oBW is balanced by her lack of hitpoints and the Level Shift, even being buffed to level 270 in BoP did not make her any sturdier than standard characters.
If she's good against some lackluster 3*s, so are other 2*s, like cStorm/MMN, Ares, etc.

But in Balance of Power all of your characters are also at 270 and doing ridiculous match damage. In PvE, she has 100 extra levels that you don't have, therefore it takes a lot longer to whittle her down with match damage.

Unknown

Justdangit wrote:

papa07 wrote:

Justdangit wrote:

A lvl 185 OBW with 3 cover in purple is still far more dangerous than a lvl 185 with 5 cover in purple.

Disagree - in a vacuum, her 5 cover power is better than her 3 cover power (steals 24 ap vs 15 ap). The reason why people prefer to play her at 3 covers is that you can fire quicker at 8 instead of 11. However, because you steal 4 purple, secondary fires are at 7. When oBW is at lvl85, you can kill her before she gets to 11 ap. At lvl185, that is less likely. And once she gets to 11 ap, the 5 cover power is vastly superior for the reasons listed above (steals more, costs less for secondary fires)

Just because it steal more doesnt mean it is better cause against a lvl 185, if she just get any aggressive recon at all mean you already lost, and you can forget about secondary fire.

If you have been denying power colors of her partners and not caught a horrible board, then they have 4 or 7, not usually enough to fire with. And even if they fire one power, it just a healthpack, it's not a loss yet.

Unknown

In Balance of Power all the characters get boosted, and even then you see a lot more OBW because the level increase made her significantly less vulnerable to 3* that normally has a huge level advantage on her. Yes she's still vulnerable to Juggernaut but Juggernaut can pretty much Headbutt anyone to oblivion. In PvE, the enemy often gets an unfair level advantage on you. Sure, a level 270 PvE OBW is still not as sturdy as a level 270 IM40, but she's likely sturdy enough to prevent any quick strike abilities from taking her down. I certainly remember seeing 10K HP OBWs in PvE and even if she's the lowest HP member of her team, that's still a lot of time to get AR ready, and don't forget that Anti-Grav heals for a significant amount of health when OBW is not limited by her inherently low level cap.

Let me put it this way, if OBW can be level 166 and you're offered a 5/5/5 build versus any other build, why would you not take the 5/5/5?

OnesOwnGrief

It goes without having to say that a 3 Purple OBW is faster but you're able to recover from that without much problem if hit with it. 4 and 5 purple are slower but are more crippling if landed. If you end up getting hit by a 5 purple recon, that's pretty much a retreat for people who don't want to take chances.

over_clocked

Phantron wrote:

In Balance of Power all the characters get boosted, and even then you see a lot more OBW because the level increase made her significantly less vulnerable to 3* that normally has a huge level advantage on her. Yes she's still vulnerable to Juggernaut but Juggernaut can pretty much Headbutt anyone to oblivion. In PvE, the enemy often gets an unfair level advantage on you. Sure, a level 270 PvE OBW is still not as sturdy as a level 270 IM40, but she's likely sturdy enough to prevent any quick strike abilities from taking her down. I certainly remember seeing 10K HP OBWs in PvE and even if she's the lowest HP member of her team, that's still a lot of time to get AR ready, and don't forget that Anti-Grav heals for a significant amount of health when OBW is not limited by her inherently low level cap.

Let me put it this way, if OBW can be level 166 and you're offered a 5/5/5 build versus any other build, why would you not take the 5/5/5?

Necroing.
At level 166 oBW would have 5950 health. It's still way too little to have powers that cost 10 or more AP on a support character that is supposed to be fast. Look at GSBW, Torch, Falcon and Loki (oBW health class), and Mohawk (Hood health class) even.
GSBW purple takes a long long time to fire compared to her short lifebar, granted, she doesn't have Espionage to accelerate herself. Many a LR game against similar opponents she finishes without ever using her abilities.
Torch, if he uses at least one of his powers, is not a waste of a slot, and none of his costs more than 10 (Inferno does drain other AP but it's a strong ability).
Mohawk's 2 best powers cost just 9 AP and she is amazingly way too squishy to warrant a slot for abilities that expensive and weak for that price. You never see her period.
Falcon, Bird Strike. He often has the only purple on the team making him way too vulnerable to even think about collecting purple on purpose. (Daken/Falcon are boring to the point of being unplayable without an outlet for all that green/yellow, imho.)
Loki, Trickery. He is deemed too squishy despite having a game-changing ability - either the ability is too expensive or his lifebar is too small.
The only exception would be Hood since he can acquire AP for his abilities without actually having to make matches.

oBW can accelerate herself with the help of Espionage, but 2 match range (8 AP Recon for 15 AP) is still much better than 3 matches for 24 AP (which the enemy never has anyway), and that's assuming the enemy makes a purple match. If not, we are looking at the 3 match range against 4 match range (!!!) and 5950 characters cannot afford to have 4 match moves to be viable. None of them are terribly viable for PvP already thanks to having at least one 4 match move on a low low lifebar.

The only 3*s that can make use of purple are Loki, Daredevil, GSBW, Deadpool, Falcon. You can throw Fury in. All of these purples cost a hefty 10+ purple AP barring Loki whose purple costs 5 and is thus more or less impossible to deny reliably with any kind of Recon since 5 purple can be easily acquired in any minor cascade or two.
Thus a hypothetical 3* oBW would have zero issues with successfully denying purple with just the help of Espionage barring MONSTER purple cascades. Even then, only Deadpool's purple is crippling and all the rest are ignorable (Dec Tactics, Radar Sense) or obnoxious but not game-winning (Escape Plan, Bird Strike). Purple is the absolutely weakest colour of the 3* pool and of the game in general too, one oBW cannot make it a viable colour just by herself outside of the 2* stage/individual matches, and thus you want to accelerate every other colour over it, meaning you want many cheaper Recons and not rare expensive ones.

TL;DR: 3/5/5 for oBW, the one and only true build after the cMagneto nerf (actually prior to that too).
You can't deny purple to purple-fed PvE Venom/Loki anyway so why bother. Just Recon other colours and kill them faster than they can kill you.

DD-The-Mighty

Just a reminder: 1*s and 2*s are balanced with the idea that they will never be higher than their level cap. They should never be level 100+ that alone breaks whatever balance their abilities may or may not have had.

Artificial Difficulty