Nonce's Grand Plan for Game Balancing

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  • tobi69 wrote:
    Wow, you care so much about this game.
    They should hire you nonce, seriously. For B.Analyst or QA/QC prolly.

    No, no, no. No way! Nonce is totally OP in the MPQ community, to the point of being totally broken. What do we do with broken OP?

    NERF!

    Moderator --> Non-Moderator.


    Seriously, though, shows exactly what's wrong with D3. Instead of listening to Nonce, he gets nerfed.
    Furthermore, if they don't listen to Nonce, what makes anyone think they will listen to anything anyone says on here?

    *weep*
  • Trisul wrote:
    Having every color combination doesn't need to be a design priority and seems like wasted effort, since color balance doesn't necessarily dictate the game being balanced as a whole. Having certain colors be rarer is just as legitimate a design choice as completely even color balance, especially when ability colors are supposed to "feel" a certain way.

    Thor(x2), Sentry, Ares, Wolverine(x2) are all YEL/RED/GRN, and that jam up eliminates a lot of good teams. Spreading out the color combos opens up a lot more strategic possibilities.

    I agree with Trisul here. Making "Sentry/Patch/lThor" a more viable team doesn't open up strategy, it ELIMINATES it. It's a perfectly valid design strategy to have a handful of powerful characters with good HP and offense to be the "core hitter" of a team. Naturally, you'd want those characters to share colors so players have to make the strategic decision over which to use instead of just stacking them all on a team.
  • Dayv
    Dayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
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    AJBCLF wrote:
    tobi69 wrote:
    Wow, you care so much about this game.
    They should hire you nonce, seriously. For B.Analyst or QA/QC prolly.

    No, no, no. No way! Nonce is totally OP in the MPQ community, to the point of being totally broken. What do we do with broken OP?

    NERF!

    Moderator --> Non-Moderator.
    Yeah, they should have made everyone else a moderator instead! Buff the others!
  • Houtro
    Houtro Posts: 464 Mover and Shaker
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    whitecrit.png Man you care so much for this game! Thank you*


    *If I catch you in my queue its auto-skip icon_e_biggrin.gif(it is anyway I have low levels)
  • Nonce Equitaur 2
    Nonce Equitaur 2 Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Here's what the power chart would look like with the suggested changes above.

    Max Tile Damage .... Crit .... Power cost ....... Max HP .. Namelink to stats (link to discussion)
    82/12/73/11/64/10/3.0 - 14/__/10/__/_9/__ - 8220 - [goto=invisible4]Invisible Woman[/goto] (Classic)
    82/11/73/64/12/10/3.5 - 12/__/10/12/__/__ - 9590 - [goto=nickfury4]Nick Fury[/goto] (Director of SHIELD)
    64/10/12/11/82/73/4.0 - _9/__/__/__/_8/11 - 10960- [goto=wolverine4]Wolverine[/goto] (X-Force)

    70/13/79/12/61/11/3.5 - 11/__/_8/__/_9/__ - 6800 - [goto=beast3]Beast[/goto] (Modern)
    79/13/70/12/11/61/3.5 - _9/__/_8/__/__/12 - 8500 - [goto=blackpanther3]Black Panther[/goto] (Man Without Fear)
    61/11/12/79/70/13/4.0 - 14/__/__/11/19/__ - 5950 - [goto=blackwidow3]Black Widow[/goto] (Grey Suit)
    79/70/61/11/12/13/3.0 - 12/11/12/__/__/__ - 8500 - [goto=captainamerica3]Captain America[/goto] (Steve Rogers)
    70/79/12/11/13/61/4.5 - PA/_7/__/__/__/_9 - 8500 - [goto=captainmarvel3]Captain Marvel[/goto] (Modern)
    79/70/13/11/12/61/3.0 - _8/11/__/__/__/13 - 10200- [goto=colossus3]Colossus[/goto] (Classic)
    11/12/61/70/13/79/4.0 - __/__/_5/PA/__/PA - 6800 - [goto=daken3]Daken[/goto] (Classic)
    11/61/70/79/12/13/3.5 - __/_7/_7/11/__/__ - 6800 - [goto=daredevil3]Daredevil[/goto] (Classic)
    13/61/11/79/12/70/4.5 - __/_6/__/14/__/PA - 6800 - [goto=deadpool3]Deadpool[/goto] (It's Me, Deadpool)
    11/12/79/13/61/70/3.0 - __/__/_9/__/PA/12 - 7176 - [goto=doctordoom3]Doctor Doom[/goto] (Classic) --health
    79/13/70/61/12/11/3.0 - PA/__/PA/12/__/__ - 5950 - [goto=falcon3]Falcon[/goto] (Mighty Avengers)
    13/79/12/11/61/70/3.0 - __/_8/__/__/_5/10 - 5950 - [goto=humantorch3]Human Torch[/goto] (Classic)
    70/79/61/13/12/11/3.5 - 14/13/20/__/__/__ - 8500 - [goto=ironman3]Iron Man[/goto] (Model 40)
    12/11/13/79/61/70/3.0 - __/__/__/_5/PA/_9 - 5023 - [goto=loki3]Loki[/goto] (Dark Reign) --health
    61/70/11/79/12/13/3.2 - _9/_8/__/10/__/__ - 6800 - [goto=magneto3]Magneto[/goto] (Classic)
    11/79/70/13/12/61/3.8 - __/_8/10/__/__/_6 - 6800 - [goto=psylocke3]Psylocke[/goto] (Classic)
    11/61/11/12/61/12/3.0 - __/_6/__/__/_6/__ - 8611 - [goto=ragnarok3]Ragnarok[/goto] (Dark Avengers)
    61/79/13/11/70/12/3.0 - _8/11/__/__/_7/__ -10200- [goto=sentry3]Sentry[/goto] (Dark Avengers)
    13/70/79/12/61/11/3.0 - __/_9/_9/__/12/__ - 10200- [goto=shehulk3]She-Hulk[/goto] (Modern)
    12/13/61/70/79/11/3.0 - __/__/_5/PA/_7/__ - 6800 - [goto=spiderman3]Spider-Man[/goto] (Classic)
    70/12/11/13/79/61/3.5 - _9/__/__/__/10/_9 - 8500 - [goto=storm3]Storm[/goto] (Mohawk)
    79/13/12/70/11/61/4.5 - 15/__/__/PA/__/_9 - 5100 - [goto=thehood3]The Hood[/goto] (Classic)
    12/70/13/61/79/11/3.0 - __/14/__/PA/10/__ - 11475- [goto=thehulk3]The Hulk[/goto] (Indestructible)
    11/61/12/13/70/79/4.0 - __/_8/__/__/_8/_7 - 6800 - [goto=thepunisher3]The Punisher[/goto] (Dark Reign)
    70/79/12/11/61/13/3.5 - 12/_8/__/__/14/__ -10200- [goto=thor3]Thor[/goto] (Modern)
    61/70/13/12/79/11/4.0 - PA/14/__/__/_9/__ - 6800 - [goto=wolverine3]Wolverine[/goto] (Patch)

    Domination optimization was applied to the weak tiles, with bonuses for Hulk, Patch, Marvel, Collosus, and Daken. All domination is good, but it's especially good for tanks. There are 6140942214464815497216 cases to check, but the following is likely hard to beat.

    82/12/73/10/64/11/ IW
    82/11/73/64/12/10/ Fury
    64/10/12/11/82/73/ WolvX
    70/13/79/11/61/12/ Beast
    79/11/70/13/12/61/ BP
    61/13/11/79/70/12/ BWGS
    79/70/61/12/11/13/ Cap
    70/79/13/12/11/61/ Marvel
    79/70/13/12/11/61/ Colossus
    11/12/61/70/13/79/ Daken
    12/61/70/79/13/11/ Daredevil
    12/61/11/79/13/70/ Deadpool
    11/12/79/13/61/70/ Doom
    79/11/70/61/12/13/ Falcon
    11/79/13/12/61/70/ Torch
    70/79/61/12/11/13/ IM40
    13/12/11/79/61/70/ Loki
    61/70/12/79/11/13/ Magneto
    11/79/70/13/12/61/ Psylocke
    61/79/12/11/70/13/ Sentry
    13/70/79/11/61/12/ SheHulk
    12/13/61/70/79/11/ Spidey
    70/13/12/11/79/61/ Storm
    79/11/13/70/12/61/ Hood
    13/70/11/61/79/12/ Hulk
    13/61/12/11/70/79/ Punisher
    70/79/12/11/61/13/ Thor
    61/70/12/11/79/13/ Patch

    Here's a list of the dominators in the chart above.
    Beast......Daken Daredevil Fury IW
    BP.........Cap Colossus IM40 Magneto Marvel Patch Sentry Thor WolvX
    BWGS.......Daken Doom Fury IW Loki
    Cap........Beast BWGS Patch Punisher Storm WolvX
    Colossus...Beast BWGS Magneto Patch Punisher Sentry Storm Thor WolvX
    Daken......BP Colossus Falcon Fury Hood Marvel WolvX
    Daredevil..Daken Fury Hood Spidey
    Deadpool...BP Falcon Fury Hood Psylocke
    Doom.......BP Cap Colossus Falcon Fury Hood IM40 Marvel Psylocke
    Falcon.....Cap IM40 Marvel WolvX
    Fury.......BP Cap Colossus Falcon IM40 Marvel WolvX
    Hood.......Hulk IM40 Magneto Marvel Patch Sentry Thor WolvX
    Hulk.......Daredevil Doom IW
    IM40.......BWGS Hulk Magneto Patch Punisher Sentry SheHulk WolvX
    IW.........BP Falcon Fury Hood
    Loki.......BP Falcon Fury Hood Psylocke
    Magneto....BWGS Hulk Spidey
    Marvel.....BWGS Hulk Magneto Patch Punisher Sentry SheHulk Storm Thor WolvX
    Patch......BWGS Daredevil Deadpool Hulk IW Loki Punisher SheHulk
    Psylocke...Cap Colossus IM40 Magneto Marvel Patch
    Punisher...Deadpool Doom IW Loki
    Sentry.....BWGS Daredevil Deadpool Hulk IW Loki SheHulk
    SheHulk....Daken Daredevil Deadpool Fury IW Spidey
    Spidey.....Daken Doom Fury Torch
    Storm......BWGS IW Loki Sentry
    Thor.......BWGS Daredevil Deadpool Hulk Magneto SheHulk
    Torch......Colossus Magneto Patch Storm Thor
    WolvX......BWGS Deadpool Hulk Loki Patch Sentry

    Here's a list of who is dominating them
    Beast......Cap Colossus
    BP.........Daken Deadpool Doom Fury IW Loki
    BWGS.......Cap Colossus IM40 Magneto Marvel Patch Sentry Storm Thor WolvX
    Cap........BP Doom Falcon Fury Psylocke
    Colossus...BP Daken Doom Fury Psylocke Torch
    Daken......Beast BWGS Daredevil SheHulk Spidey
    Daredevil..Beast Hulk Patch Sentry SheHulk Thor
    Deadpool...Patch Punisher Sentry SheHulk Thor WolvX
    Doom.......BWGS Hulk Punisher Spidey
    Falcon.....Daken Deadpool Doom Fury IW Loki
    Fury.......Beast BWGS Daken Daredevil Deadpool Doom IW Loki SheHulk Spidey
    Hood.......Daken Daredevil Deadpool Doom IW Loki
    Hulk.......Hood IM40 Magneto Marvel Patch Sentry Thor WolvX
    IM40.......BP Doom Falcon Fury Hood Psylocke
    IW.........Beast BWGS Hulk Patch Punisher Sentry SheHulk Storm
    Loki.......BWGS Patch Punisher Sentry Storm WolvX
    Magneto....BP Colossus Hood IM40 Marvel Psylocke Thor Torch
    Marvel.....BP Daken Doom Falcon Fury Hood Psylocke
    Patch......BP Cap Colossus Hood IM40 Marvel Psylocke Torch WolvX
    Psylocke...Deadpool Doom Loki
    Punisher...Cap Colossus IM40 Marvel Patch
    Sentry.....BP Colossus Hood IM40 Marvel Storm WolvX
    SheHulk....IM40 Marvel Patch Sentry Thor
    Spidey.....Daredevil Magneto SheHulk
    Storm......Cap Colossus Marvel Torch
    Thor.......BP Colossus Hood Marvel Torch
    Torch......Spidey
    WolvX......BP Cap Colossus Daken Falcon Fury Hood IM40 Marvel

    This works well for Colossus and Captain Marvel, but doesn't work well for Hulk or Hood. Will need to adjust methods a bit, to make it bad for Hood or BWGS to dominate.
  • Phantron wrote:
    If they hired Nonce, he'd never have enough time to test anything he suggested unless he wants to work a ton of overtime. I'm not sure where I saw this, but I saw a quote that's like 'if we played the game as much as our players do we'd never have time to get anything done' from a dev and it's surprisingly true.

    Just for emphasis, this always has been and always will be true. A gamer's player base will grind out thousands and thousands of hours of play and, if used correctly, can be an incredibly useful resource when looking at balance.