POLL: Who is NOT Middle Tier?

Nonce Equitaur 2

With R60, there are some obvious choices for Top Tier characters. The first five do a lot of damage and have lots of health. Daken and Hood are the best supporting characters in the game, working well on almost any team. The Bottom Tier is more controversial -- Doctor Doom, Beast, and Daredevil all have players that like them. The poll is limited to 15, though, so I stuck them in Bottom Tier. I also couldn't pull in 2* characters -- Thor, Hawkeye, MN Mags, Storm, Wolverine, OBW, Ares might all be middle tier.

Who is NOT in the Middle Tier? This list of fifteen has candidates. REMOVE candidates by voting for them. Characters that get a lot of votes will be placed in top tier or bottom tier based on what seems obvious. If Patch gets a lot of votes, he's Top Tier. If IM40 gets a lot of votes, he's bottom tier.

The ones that get very few votes will be the middle tier characters.

Top Tier characters
Sentry
Thor (Modern)
Wolverine (X-Force)
Nick Fury
Black Panther
Patch
Daken (Classic)
The Hood
The Hulk

Middle Tier Characters
Captain Marvel
Captain America
Human Torch
Black Widow (Grey Suit)
Deadpool (It's Me, Deadpool)
Falcon (Mighty Avengers)
Magneto (Classic)
Psylocke (Classic)
The Punisher (Dark Reign)

Bottom Tier characters
She-Hulk (Modern)
Spider-Man (Classic)
Storm Mohawk
IM40
Beast (Modern)
Daredevil (Classic)
Doctor Doom (Classic)
Loki (Dark Reign)
Ragnarok (Dark Avengers)
Invisible Woman (Classic)

EDIT -- made some changes based on poll results and comments

Unknown

I'd only argue Capt. Marvel as the lowest of top tier pvp characters, and simply for the ability to feed red / black passively to other characters.

Is this for PVP, PVE, or just in general?

I'd rate characters very differently for PVE.

Nonce Equitaur 2

SirKopath wrote:

I'd only argue Capt. Marvel as the lowest of top tier pvp characters, and simply for the ability to feed red / black passively to other characters.

Is this for PVP, PVE, or just in general?

I'd rate characters very differently for PVE.

I've also started thinking of Capt Marvel as Top Tier. Lets do this as in general -- Cap/She-Hulk/Falcon are great against goons, while Fury is kinda lousy against goons. But I don't think many would rate She-Hulk as Top Tier or Fury as Middle Tier just due to their goon-fighting ability. This is a general evaluation.

Unknown

I'd call Black Panther clear top tier, and Captain America top tier if there are three tiers (I usually use 4 or 5 tiers myself, in which case he's second). Patch is clear top tier; Punisher is about on Par with Captain America.

IM40, Spider-Man, and Lazy Storm are three of the worst characters in the game; I think I'd only put Loki below them. They're not completely useless, but there's not really anything they do that somebody else doesn't do better. They're in the "only use if required or mega-boosted" tier.

Unknown

SirKopath wrote:

I'd only argue Capt. Marvel as the lowest of top tier pvp characters, and simply for the ability to feed red / black passively to other characters.

Is this for PVP, PVE, or just in general?

I'd rate characters very differently for PVE.

Yeah but Cap is top tier in PvE and bottom tier in PvP so he's not middle tier either way

Nonce Equitaur 2

Looks like ...
Top Tier (many votes, obvious) -- Patch, Capt Marvel, Black Panther

Middle Tier (few votes) -- BWGS

Bottom Tier (many votes, obvious) -- IM40

I guess I'm not sure how people are thinking of Falcon. When there are friendly tiles on the board, he's better than Daken. When not, he's kinda useless. He's a fantastic back-up to Daken, but doesn't pair well with many others (Black Panther, Psylocke, Punisher, Storm).

I'm not sure about Torch either... I put him near Top Tier, but he's more middle tier for me.

NorthernPolarity

BP should be top tier. I'm not sure about beast being bottom tier: his blue into green is still kinda sorta efficient enough to make him at least not the absolute worst: I'd definitely put him as considerably more playable than any of the other bottom tier characters. Not sure about Daken being top tier anymore due to his inability to tank green anymore: Hood at the very least is probably better than Daken at this point: part of the reason why Daken was so good for me at least was him being able to tank torch hits while gathering green, which isn't possible anymore.

The changes I would make to the list are:
Hulk -> Mid tier.
BP -> Top tier
Patch -> Top tier...? I still don't use him but I could see the regen being irreplaceable for sustained pushing.
Beast -> Mid tier (but hanging by a thread)
Daken -> Maybe mid tier, we'll see how the color shift affects him.


Edit: I also wouldn't call Hulk/ Cap Marvel top tier. Top tier characters should be reserved for characters that excel in most/all facets of the game: Hulk/Cap Marvel are terrible on offense, and require that they take a lot of hits in order to actually do something offensively. This means that they're pretty bad for sustained pushing in any situation, which is a pretty big deal for PvP/PvE: that's why they aren't great at transitioning as well. Compare that top tier ppl like BP who are just straight up good in almost all situations.

In terms of arbitrary tiering, I would group them based on the following tiering:
Top Tier - Great in all parts of the game (PvE, PvP shield hopping, PvP defense, PvP sustained pushing) by themselves, or completely irreplaceable in some of these areas.
Mid Tier - Great/good in some parts of the game, or requires combos/help in order to be great.
Bottom Tier - mediocre/terrible in all parts of the game.

Examples of this tiering:
Sentry - So good at high level PvP that it doesn't matter that he's not the amazing at sustained pushing (although he's certainly fine at it).
Patch - So good at sustained pushing that it doesn't matter that he's bad on defense.

Falcon - mid-tier because he has combos that make him great in certain situations (Daken + Falcon in PvP, PvE sustained pushing below 800), but doesn't excel in all facets of the game.
Torch - close to top-tier, but is average at PvP defense and high-level pushing. Is also pretty replaceable as far as characters go.
Hulk/Cap Marvel - Amazing at PvP defense, but mediocre/terrible on offense / sustained pushing. Since offense is a lot more important than defense in this game, I would say that they're replaceable by characters that are good on offense and defense, like Sentry and LazyTHor.

Nonce Equitaur 2

Northern Polarity makes lots of good points.

Support Tier --- terrible on their own. Fantastic support for someone else.
Daken
Hood
Captain Marvel
Hulk
Falcon
OBW

I have to agree that Hulk / Marvel are mostly supporting characters. But they're very good supporting characters.


Might be funny to close the poll now .... BWGS is the *only* middle tier character.

Unknown

I'd also add Spidey to the supporting characters list.

Concerning Captain Marvel, while I would never play her as main damage dealer, I actually think she does belong in top tier after playing her all PvP. Her stun is very useful (two turns plus quite a bit of damage, and comes cheap at that), her red isn't very strong, but cheap and removes those pesky protect tiles you couldn't match otherwise as a side effect, and her AP generating is extremely useful. Her health is somewhat low, sadly, same problem as with Torch (but maybe that's just the way it seems to me, what with my Curvy Captain not being levelled that far yet).

Unknown

IM40 is not as bad as everyone says. He's at least as valid a support as Captain Marvel - run him at 5/5/1 with Steve Rogers, Patch, or basically anyone else with a good, slow red power, and you'll be surprised how quickly things start dying. Plus he has tons of health, a way to stay in the back for much of the fight, and when pressed can do pretty significant damage - Ballistic Salvo and Unibeam are slow, but thanks to recharge they're not unplayably slow, and in a pinch he can swing fights.

over_clocked

Rico Dredd wrote:

I'd also add Spidey to the supporting characters list.

Concerning Captain Marvel, while I would never play her as main damage dealer, I actually think she does belong in top tier after playing her all PvP. Her stun is very useful (two turns plus quite a bit of damage, and comes cheap at that), her red isn't very strong, but cheap and removes those pesky protect tiles you couldn't match otherwise as a side effect, and her AP generating is extremely useful. Her health is somewhat low, sadly, same problem as with Torch (but maybe that's just the way it seems to me, what with my Curvy Captain not being levelled that far yet).

Marvel is same health class as Captain America, Iron Man, Doom, Black Panther, which is NOT fragile. Her max is 8500 HP. It's better than majority of 3*s like Magneto, Punisher, Psylocke, Spider-Man, Wolverine and Daken, and definitely better than HT/GSBW/Hood/Mohawk, etc.

Unknown

Iron Man 40 is just so easily crippled. If the board is short on yellow or it's being partially denied, the other 2 colours are too expensive to make a difference in the fight until way later.

wymtime

locked wrote:

Rico Dredd wrote:

I'd also add Spidey to the supporting characters list.

Concerning Captain Marvel, while I would never play her as main damage dealer, I actually think she does belong in top tier after playing her all PvP. Her stun is very useful (two turns plus quite a bit of damage, and comes cheap at that), her red isn't very strong, but cheap and removes those pesky protect tiles you couldn't match otherwise as a side effect, and her AP generating is extremely useful. Her health is somewhat low, sadly, same problem as with Torch (but maybe that's just the way it seems to me, what with my Curvy Captain not being levelled that far yet).

Marvel is same health class as Captain America, Iron Man, Doom, Black Panther, which is NOT fragile. Her max is 8500 HP. It's better than majority of 3*s like Magneto, Punisher, Psylocke, Spider-Man, Wolverine and Daken, and definitely better than HT/GSBW/Hood/Mohawk, etc.

I have not placed a lot of ISO into Captain Marvel, but she feels like the Moonstone of the 3*. She has some really interesting abilities, and if you use her right she will be very effective. The problem with her is she is just not great and you need her to be more of a support character to fuel someone elses red and her black by taking a big hit for the team. This means even with good health she has to take the damage to be effective and she does not have true healing so she will require health packs to be really usefull or to be roated in and out for sustained play. I don't look at her as top tier becuase for support I would rather run Hood or LDaken as you either get AP steal on every turn or strike tiles and regeneration. She is high mid tier becuase when she is buffed she will help, but will not hurt you. When she is not buffed and you want support you will probably have a better support character you can bring to the table.

Unknown

daibar wrote:

Iron Man 40 is just so easily crippled. If the board is short on yellow or it's being partially denied, the other 2 colours are too expensive to make a difference in the fight until way later.

Keeping IM40 at 1 yellow is the way to go, 6 yellow ap feeds red users really well. As said above he is support, not great on his own.

Unknown

wymtime wrote:

locked wrote:

Rico Dredd wrote:

I'd also add Spidey to the supporting characters list.

Concerning Captain Marvel, while I would never play her as main damage dealer, I actually think she does belong in top tier after playing her all PvP. Her stun is very useful (two turns plus quite a bit of damage, and comes cheap at that), her red isn't very strong, but cheap and removes those pesky protect tiles you couldn't match otherwise as a side effect, and her AP generating is extremely useful. Her health is somewhat low, sadly, same problem as with Torch (but maybe that's just the way it seems to me, what with my Curvy Captain not being levelled that far yet).

Marvel is same health class as Captain America, Iron Man, Doom, Black Panther, which is NOT fragile. Her max is 8500 HP. It's better than majority of 3*s like Magneto, Punisher, Psylocke, Spider-Man, Wolverine and Daken, and definitely better than HT/GSBW/Hood/Mohawk, etc.

I have not placed a lot of ISO into Captain Marvel, but she feels like the Moonstone of the 3*. She has some really interesting abilities, and if you use her right she will be very effective. The problem with her is she is just not great and you need her to be more of a support character to fuel someone elses red and her black by taking a big hit for the team. This means even with good health she has to take the damage to be effective and she does not have true healing so she will require health packs to be really usefull or to be roated in and out for sustained play. I don't look at her as top tier becuase for support I would rather run Hood or LDaken as you either get AP steal on every turn or strike tiles and regeneration. She is high mid tier becuase when she is buffed she will help, but will not hurt you. When she is not buffed and you want support you will probably have a better support character you can bring to the table.

I found her a fun person to pair with patch. Cheap~ish abilities to use after BR is out and can stun someone, plus if things go badly and you start taking post BR hits she will make enough AP to retaliate very quickly.

wymtime

Cryptobrancus wrote:

wymtime wrote:

locked wrote:

Rico Dredd wrote:

I'd also add Spidey to the supporting characters list.

Concerning Captain Marvel, while I would never play her as main damage dealer, I actually think she does belong in top tier after playing her all PvP. Her stun is very useful (two turns plus quite a bit of damage, and comes cheap at that), her red isn't very strong, but cheap and removes those pesky protect tiles you couldn't match otherwise as a side effect, and her AP generating is extremely useful. Her health is somewhat low, sadly, same problem as with Torch (but maybe that's just the way it seems to me, what with my Curvy Captain not being levelled that far yet).

Marvel is same health class as Captain America, Iron Man, Doom, Black Panther, which is NOT fragile. Her max is 8500 HP. It's better than majority of 3*s like Magneto, Punisher, Psylocke, Spider-Man, Wolverine and Daken, and definitely better than HT/GSBW/Hood/Mohawk, etc.

I have not placed a lot of ISO into Captain Marvel, but she feels like the Moonstone of the 3*. She has some really interesting abilities, and if you use her right she will be very effective. The problem with her is she is just not great and you need her to be more of a support character to fuel someone elses red and her black by taking a big hit for the team. This means even with good health she has to take the damage to be effective and she does not have true healing so she will require health packs to be really usefull or to be roated in and out for sustained play. I don't look at her as top tier becuase for support I would rather run Hood or LDaken as you either get AP steal on every turn or strike tiles and regeneration. She is high mid tier becuase when she is buffed she will help, but will not hurt you. When she is not buffed and you want support you will probably have a better support character you can bring to the table.

I found her a fun person to pair with patch. Cheap~ish abilities to use after BR is out and can stun someone, plus if things go badly and you start taking post BR hits she will make enough AP to retaliate very quickly.

When he is leveled for me I think the more fun person to pair with Patch will be Deadpool. You can hit Berserker rage and then Deadpool will jomp in front and regenerate limiting the amount of damage your opponent does. I don't think Captain Marvel is at the bottem of the 3* I just think she fits in the support role and from the support role characters I would rather have Daken, Hood, Hulk, and Deadpool. For support I would have her above Spiderman, Falcon and anyone on the bottom Tier list. I have her on the same par as She-Hulk in that They both have some really good situational ablities, good health, and can hold there own in the game, but if you have a deep roster neither one of them is on your A or B team. I prefer She-Hulk with her AOE ability.

Spoit

I'm surprised that punisher's stock has fallen so far. Sure BP is now the superior strike tile/Black AoE guy, but he still has a bunch of good powers for cheap.

(I never really bought the punisher hype)

mags1587

I think that Punisher is actually better in the 2*-3* transition than he is when you're solidly in 3* territory. He pairs really well with OBW.

Spoit

mags1587 wrote:

I think that Punisher is actually better in the 2*-3* transition than he is when you're solidly in 3* territory. He pairs really well with OBW.

He's a step above psylocke anyway, which IMO is the epitome of middle tier

Unknown

I think Punisher's ranking was also helped by the fact that a lot more people had him substantially covered and were able to use him. Last poll, barely anybody had a fully covered Sentry (for example).