how about a pve event with tougher AI

Unknown

I've read there is existing code for "smarter" computer opponents in MPQ, but it play-tested poorly because it was too frustrating for most players. I think it would fun to have a periodic pve event in which the AI is un-crippled. It would at least be a new twist on 'hard mode'.

Unknown

What makes a mode "hard"?
What do they consider smart?

In this game, hard means raise levels to insanely high, but should really be more technical, same AI strength but less tiles of your strongest colours (for example).

Smart by D3 standards can't be very high... By smart they probably meant AI will drop more cascades and match colours that you need instead of them (for example Hulk matching a pretty pink tile when red, green or black are available still).

What's the point in adding a "hard" pve event when their version of hard is us using a less than a level 200, fighting a level 300+ Daken, Ragnorok and Venom... Where's the logic?!

SunCrusher

With people gaming the MMR and scaling system as is, that's only going to increase it even more.

When the going gets tough, players don't necessarily get tougher and they also don't like losing/dying; they'll find a way to 'make it' more manageable and with the system being as it is, that's exactly what will happen.

GothicKratos

Nickalooose wrote:

What makes a mode "hard"?
What do they consider smart?

In this game, hard means raise levels to insanely high, but should really be more technical, same AI strength but less tiles of your strongest colours (for example).

Smart by D3 standards can't be very high... By smart they probably meant AI will drop more cascades and match colours that you need instead of them (for example Hulk matching a pretty pink tile when red, green or black are available still).

What's the point in adding a "hard" pve event when their version of hard is us using a less than a level 200, fighting a level 300+ Daken, Ragnorok and Venom... Where's the logic?!

I'm confused as to what you think "hard" is. Apparently it's not raw strength, nor is it strategic choice...so...uh...from what I can tell "harder AI" to you mean crippling us, as the player, by limiting our resources.

simonsez

The AI already seems pretty smart... it somehow knows to use bullseye when the board will be filled with purple, it knows to use Doom when the board will be filled with black, it knows to use god-like power only when the board is set up to create a monstrous cascade from unseen tiles... with this degree of prescience, it already seems pretty genius to me...

Unknown

Budapest1980 wrote:

I've read there is existing code for "smarter" computer opponents in MPQ, but it play-tested poorly because it was too frustrating for most players. I think it would fun to have a periodic pve event in which the AI is un-crippled. It would at least be a new twist on 'hard mode'.

Given how badly the game punishes you for losing a match, and the elimination of any sort of reasonable healing options, that's about the last thing I'd want.

Unknown

Ben Grimm wrote:

Budapest1980 wrote:

I've read there is existing code for "smarter" computer opponents in MPQ, but it play-tested poorly because it was too frustrating for most players. I think it would fun to have a periodic pve event in which the AI is un-crippled. It would at least be a new twist on 'hard mode'.

Given how badly the game punishes you for losing a match, and the elimination of any sort of reasonable healing options, that's about the last thing I'd want.

If all that's done is give hard opponents better brains I agree. If this means that if you beat a high AI opponent you get a golden token reward, however, I'd be up for it. It's silly to assume they'd just make the current very successful game just straight up much harder. They'd likely build a different mode with better rewards.

SunCrusher

ark123 wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

Budapest1980 wrote:

I've read there is existing code for "smarter" computer opponents in MPQ, but it play-tested poorly because it was too frustrating for most players. I think it would fun to have a periodic pve event in which the AI is un-crippled. It would at least be a new twist on 'hard mode'.

Given how badly the game punishes you for losing a match, and the elimination of any sort of reasonable healing options, that's about the last thing I'd want.

If all that's done is give hard opponents better brains I agree. If this means that if you beat a high AI opponent you get a golden token reward, however, I'd be up for it. It's silly to assume they'd just make the current very successful game just straight up much harder. They'd likely build a different mode with better rewards.

I'd love to be positive about such an idea, but:

Given the fact that PvP's possible rewards per battle include covers and given the fact that I have never pulled a cover from a PvP battle, I would hazard a guess and say that if such a difficult AI appeared, it WOULD have a nice Token/reward in there... but with a probability of less than 10% to get it and those who get lucky are lucky and those who managed to beat the AI but weren't lucky get the ****.

It took me over 6 months to convince the game's RNG to give me my last Thor and Classic Storm covers from the Prologue and I won't even say how many times I grinded those nodes to try over the course of 6 months.

D3 likes to stuff the best rewards in unreachable places; the times they have directly rewarded difficult nodes (not counting things like Hard Mode in Simulator or knuckle-to-knuckle PvP where you can just as easily lose points and rank) have been few and far in between with the Hulk PvE event standing out the most in my mind and the occasional X00 ISO one-time-only nodes.

Unknown

GothicKratos wrote:

Nickalooose wrote:

What makes a mode "hard"?
What do they consider smart?

In this game, hard means raise levels to insanely high, but should really be more technical, same AI strength but less tiles of your strongest colours (for example).

Smart by D3 standards can't be very high... By smart they probably meant AI will drop more cascades and match colours that you need instead of them (for example Hulk matching a pretty pink tile when red, green or black are available still).

What's the point in adding a "hard" pve event when their version of hard is us using a less than a level 200, fighting a level 300+ Daken, Ragnorok and Venom... Where's the logic?!

I'm confused as to what you think "hard" is. Apparently it's not raw strength, nor is it strategic choice...so...uh...from what I can tell "harder AI" to you mean crippling us, as the player, by limiting our resources.

I do consider that hard... Hard for COD on PlayStation is adding more enemies... Hard for FIFA on XBOX is CPU passing/evading tackles, at the exact right moment... Hard for Columns on SEGA is speeding the game up... Hard for water is freezing it... What I'm getting at is, at what point do these "hard" methods require heightening levels, that's not hard in my opinion... If you consider that hard then we have 2 different opinions on what is hard and what is not lol.

GothicKratos

Nickalooose wrote:

GothicKratos wrote:

Nickalooose wrote:

What makes a mode "hard"?
What do they consider smart?

In this game, hard means raise levels to insanely high, but should really be more technical, same AI strength but less tiles of your strongest colours (for example).

Smart by D3 standards can't be very high... By smart they probably meant AI will drop more cascades and match colours that you need instead of them (for example Hulk matching a pretty pink tile when red, green or black are available still).

What's the point in adding a "hard" pve event when their version of hard is us using a less than a level 200, fighting a level 300+ Daken, Ragnorok and Venom... Where's the logic?!

I'm confused as to what you think "hard" is. Apparently it's not raw strength, nor is it strategic choice...so...uh...from what I can tell "harder AI" to you mean crippling us, as the player, by limiting our resources.

I do consider that hard... Hard for COD on PlayStation is adding more enemies... Hard for FIFA on XBOX is CPU passing/evading tackles, at the exact right moment... Hard for Columns on SEGA is speeding the game up... Hard for water is freezing it... What I'm getting at is, at what point do these "hard" methods require heightening levels, that's not hard in my opinion... If you consider that hard then we have 2 different opinions on what is hard and what is not lol.

All of those things add difficulty (including adding levels). Most of these things are what most people would consider "artificial difficulty". Think of Yazmat in in FFXII. He was really damn hard. He hit hard, he had a metric boatload of health, and the map you fought him on had no way to defend yourself - and let's not forget all those traps! He was a true monster simply because of stats. Is this "real" difficulty? Is this "lazy"? Probably, but it's still difficult.