MPQ Tanking graph

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Nonce Equitaur 2
Nonce Equitaur 2 Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
edited August 2014 in MPQ General Discussion
I decided to look at who tanks for who, on maxed 3* characters with 3 covers.
Hulk dominates BWGS on 5 of 6 colors, as does Captain Marvel vs She-Hulk.
Those with 4 wins and a tie are Daredevil vs Spiderman, Iron Man vs Wolverine, and Psylocke vs Captain America.

sxfrGem.gif

WINNERS
Wolverine dominates Black Widow, Deadpool, Human Torch, and Punisher
Storm dominates Captain Marvel, Magneto, Sentry, and She-Hulk
Psylocke dominates Black Panther, Captain America, The Hood, and Wolverine
Psylocke isn't dominated by anyone.

LOSERS
Daredevil is dominated by Human Torch, Magneto, She-Hulk, and Hulk
Deadpool is dominated by Human Torch, Sentry, Thor, and Wolverine
Captain America doesn't dominate anybody.

Data chart
Max Tile Damage .... Crit .... Power cost ....... Max HP .. Namelink to stats (link to discussion)
79/13/70/12/11/61/3.5 - _9/__/_8/__/__/12 - 8500 - [goto=blackpanther3]Black Panther[/goto] (Man Without Fear)
11/61/12/79/70/13/4.0 - __/14/__/11/19/__ - 5950 - [goto=blackwidow3]Black Widow[/goto] (Grey Suit)
79/70/61/11/12/13/3.0 - 19/11/12/__/__/__ - 8500 - [goto=captainamerica3]Captain America[/goto] (Steve Rogers)
61/79/11/13/70/12/4.5 - PA/_7/__/__/__/_9 - 8500 - [goto=captainmarvel3]Captain Marvel[/goto] (Modern)
11/12/13/61/79/70/4.0 - __/__/_5/PA/__/PA - 6800 - [goto=daken3]Daken[/goto] (Classic)
11/61/70/79/12/13/3.5 - __/_7/_7/11/__/__ - 6800 - [goto=daredevil3]Daredevil[/goto] (Classic)
13/61/11/79/12/70/4.5 - __/_6/__/14/__/PA - 6800 - [goto=deadpool3]Deadpool[/goto] (It's Me, Deadpool)
79/13/70/61/12/11/3.0 - PA/__/PA/12/__/__ - 5950 - [goto=falcon3]Falcon[/goto] (Mighty Avengers)
13/79/12/11/61/70/3.0 - __/_8/__/__/_5/10 - 5950 - [goto=humantorch3]Human Torch[/goto] (Classic)
70/79/61/13/12/11/3.5 - 14/13/20/__/__/__ - 8500 - [goto=ironman3]Iron Man[/goto] (Model 40)
61/70/79/11/12/13/3.2 - __/_2/_5/10/__/__ - 6800 - [goto=magneto3]Magneto[/goto] (Classic)
11/79/70/13/12/61/3.8 - __/_8/10/__/__/_6 - 6800 - [goto=psylocke3]Psylocke[/goto] (Classic)
61/79/13/11/70/12/3.0 - _8/11/__/__/_7/__ -10200- [goto=sentry3]Sentry[/goto] (Dark Avengers)
13/70/79/12/61/11/3.0 - __/_9/_9/__/12/__ -10200- [goto=shehulk3]She-Hulk[/goto] (Modern)
79/13/61/70/12/11/3.0 - 12/__/_5/PA/__/__ - 6800 - [goto=spiderman3]Spider-Man[/goto] (Classic)
70/12/11/13/79/61/3.5 - _9/__/__/__/10/_9 - 5100 - [goto=storm3]Storm[/goto] (Mohawk)
79/13/70/12/11/61/4.5 - 15/__/PA/__/__/_9 - 5100 - [goto=thehood3]The Hood[/goto] (Classic)
12/70/13/11/79/61/3.0 - __/14/__/__/10/PA -11475- [goto=thehulk3]The Hulk[/goto] (Indestructible)
11/61/12/13/70/79/4.0 - __/_8/__/__/_8/_7 - 6800 - [goto=thepunisher3]The Punisher[/goto] (Dark Reign)
70/79/12/11/61/13/3.5 - 12/_8/__/__/14/__ -10200- [goto=thor3]Thor[/goto] (Modern)
61/70/13/12/79/11/4.0 - PA/14/__/__/_9/__ - 6800 - [goto=wolverine3]Wolverine[/goto] (Patch)

Wolverine is one that really needs to dominate, for Best There Is. Pick two from Deadpool, Punisher, BWGS to get a team where Patch's icon is on 4 colors. Also, Daken can be swapped in so long as Patch is put in front to win the tie. He can also be in front of Human Torch and either Sentry or Hulk.

Hulk gets angry with Storm/Patch, BWGS/Patch, BWGS/Daken, BWGS/Storm, Captain America/Magneto, Daken/Punisher, Sentry/Thor, BWGS/Daredevil, and BWGS/Punisher.

For charging up Capt Marvel the teams are Iron Man/Sentry, Psylocke/Sentry, Sentry/Punisher, Human Torch/Punisher, Human Torch/Sentry, Magneto/Psylocke, Magneto/Punisher, Magneto/Sentry, Psylocke/Punisher, Sentry/Patch, Human Torch/Magneto, Human Torch/Psylocke, Iron Man/She-Hulk, Psylocke/She-Hulk, Sentry/She-Hulk, She-Hulk/Punisher, Human Torch/She-Hulk, Magneto/She-Hulk, She-Hulk/Patch.

Comments

  • mohio
    mohio Posts: 1,690 Chairperson of the Boards
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    This is cool and you do some seriously awesome stuff here but the BP patch link doesn't have an arrow
  • MaxCavalera
    MaxCavalera Posts: 425 Mover and Shaker
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    I usually love diving into the numbers and mechanics but this graph is seriously making me feel a bit daft.
  • esoxnepa
    esoxnepa Posts: 291
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    Great work.

    I knew Psylock was a serious dominatrix!
  • Nonce Equitaur 2
    Nonce Equitaur 2 Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
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    MaxCavalera wrote:
    I usually love diving into the numbers and mechanics but this graph is seriously making me feel a bit daft.

    My computer and a few programs are doing all the work here. Doing this by hand would be insane.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    Deadpool being dominated actually helps you if you have enough black covers.


    Conserving his health and being in the background allows him to save someone with less health taking a big hit.
  • squirrel1120
    squirrel1120 Posts: 492
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    Same thought as teke184... Looks like it works out good for Deadpool teams when he isn't tanking most of the match damage, just taking hits from powers. Not sure that fits his personality well, but I'm sure they didn't want to add another monster True-Healing regenerator to the mix.

    I will have to reference this often as I'm considering character combinations through the transition into 3* toons.
  • Nonce Equitaur 2
    Nonce Equitaur 2 Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited August 2014
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    It does seem like they mathematically optimized Deadpool for his special power. Couldn't see it until I ran the numbers.

    EDIT: The tile-match change to Storm also had a large tile-match domination effect.
  • Nonce Equitaur 2
    Nonce Equitaur 2 Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
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    This graph might be a bit clearer. I left out Captain America.

    utAw1S3.gif
  • Unknown
    Unknown
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    Could you include an exact definition of "dominates" for the purposes of discussion? I assume it means "if two characters are together, X dominates Y if X always has priority over Y on 4+ colors; X does not dominate Y if they always split the colors 3 to 3, or if "dominance" depends on the position tie-breaker such that X dominates Y if X is placed ahead, but Y dominates X if Y is ahead." Is that right?
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,309 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Thanks for doing this. You would think that Cap would be the One True Tank going by flavour alone, and it's all the opposite.
  • h4n1s
    h4n1s Posts: 427 Mover and Shaker
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    I don't understand the meaning of "who tanks for who", therefore the nice chart makes no sense for me... :/ Can you guys enlighten me? I thought tanking stands for influencing MMR by intentional losing fights...
  • hurcules
    hurcules Posts: 519
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    Vairelome wrote:
    Could you include an exact definition of "dominates" for the purposes of discussion? I assume it means "if two characters are together, X dominates Y if X always has priority over Y on 4+ colors; X does not dominate Y if they always split the colors 3 to 3, or if "dominance" depends on the position tie-breaker such that X dominates Y if X is placed ahead, but Y dominates X if Y is ahead." Is that right?
    Exactly my thought when I saw the opening post.

    Looking at the numbers closer, and just picking IM40 vs Patch as example:

    In Nonce's chart, IM40 dominates Patch:
    70/79/61/13/12/11/3.5 - 14/13/20/__/__/__ - 8500 - [goto=ironman3]Iron Man[/goto] (Model 40)
    61/70/13/12/79/11/4.0 - PA/14/__/__/_9/__ - 6800 - [goto=wolverine3]Wolverine[/goto] (Patch)

    We can clearly see IM40 beats Patch in 5 out of 6 colours.

    Now look at Patch vs Human Torch:

    61/70/13/12/79/11/4.0 - PA/14/__/__/_9/__ - 6800 - [goto=wolverine3]Wolverine[/goto] (Patch)
    13/79/12/11/61/70/3.0 - __/_8/__/__/_5/10 - 5950 - [goto=humantorch3]Human Torch[/goto] (Classic)

    Now Patch wins 4 out of 6 colours.

    So yeah, I believe your assumption is correct, Vairelome.
  • squirrel1120
    squirrel1120 Posts: 492
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    h4n1s wrote:
    I don't understand the meaning of "who tanks for who", therefore the nice chart makes no sense for me... :/ Can you guys enlighten me? I thought tanking stands for influencing MMR by intentional losing fights...

    In this case, 'tanks' simply means 'takes priority on color matching', and thus infers that the dominant character will take most of the enemy match damage, as well as most of the enemy's power damage from being out front. In some cases this is great, mostly with characters that have either a high hit point pool (often referred to also as a 'tank' character) or characters that have strong regeneration abilities.

    Its important for group composition to know who will be taking the damage. As an example I'm more familiar with, down in 2* land, you want OBW 'tanking' her main colors to take most advantage of 5/5 espionage if you have her built that way. If she doesn't take priority on purple, blue and black, she isn't going to steal one from the enemy on the match, nor is she going to kick in the extra 112 damage with it. It takes a character being MUCH higher than her on those colors for it to be worth it on the match damage alone, nevermind the AP stealing.
  • Nonce Equitaur 2
    Nonce Equitaur 2 Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
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    If we want a lot of characters to dominate others, consider a roster of 36. If the level cap was increased for 1* and 2* characters, and some extra covers were given to those with only 2 covers, then that would be 45 characters. It would be more expensive to get a 1* character to level 166 than for a 3*. Or they could bring in new characters.

    In this chart of 36, every character dominates 7 others and is dominated by 7 others. A drawback is that only 18 of the 20 color combos are covered, assuming power colors match the top three tile-match values. I haven't found a good set of 20 that would cover all 20 color combos AND have a high level of domination. Also, I haven't done the exercise of matching this up with existing characters and minimizing the tweaks that would be required to pull it off.

    79/70/61/13/12/11
    79/70/12/11/61/13
    79/13/61/11/12/70
    79/13/12/70/61/11
    79/11/61/70/12/13
    79/11/12/13/61/70
    70/79/13/12/11/61
    70/79/11/61/13/12
    70/61/13/79/11/12
    70/61/11/12/13/79
    70/12/13/61/11/79
    70/12/11/79/13/61
    61/70/79/11/12/13
    61/70/12/13/79/11
    61/13/79/70/12/11
    61/13/12/11/79/70
    61/11/79/13/12/70
    61/11/12/70/79/13
    13/79/70/61/11/12
    13/79/11/12/70/61
    13/61/70/12/11/79
    13/61/11/79/70/12
    13/12/70/79/11/61
    13/12/11/61/70/79
    12/70/79/13/61/11
    12/70/61/11/79/13
    12/13/79/11/61/70
    12/13/61/70/79/11
    12/11/79/70/61/13
    12/11/61/13/79/70
    11/79/70/12/13/61
    11/79/13/61/70/12
    11/61/70/79/13/12
    11/61/13/12/70/79
    11/12/70/61/13/79
    11/12/13/79/70/61

    For true mayhem, 60 characters are needed, with 3 for each color combo. For the mathematically inclined, figure out the maximal domination number for 60 characters. For 36 characters, it's 7.
  • WilsonFisk
    WilsonFisk Posts: 365 Mover and Shaker
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    Impressive work Nonce. You definitely make this forum a much better place. Thanks!
  • Nonce Equitaur 2
    Nonce Equitaur 2 Posts: 2,269 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Would anyone like an optimization for tweaking the minor tile damages so that more of the tanks of the game are actually tanks, and the weaker members actually stay in the background more?

    utAw1S3.gif
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Thanks for the great info. Definatly going to save me some health packs by having proper placement when I start the match.

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