Changes to PvP loaner character. 1/1/1 instead of 1/0/0

OnesOwnGrief

I feel there needs to be an adjustment to PvP to promote new players using other characters. If the goal is to have a wider roster of characters with the implementation of true healing then why do then use loaner characters that give no idea how the character is supposed to work.

For example: In Webslinger, why would anyone want to use a loaner 1/0/0 Spidey that's only good for healing? If Spidey was 1/1/1, you'd be able to draw a clearer understanding how the character works on a more consistent basis and not when its a team-up character in PvE. Many, and I mean almost all, characters fall into this same problem.

Daken would only have the single strike tile but 0 chance of healing or using his blue skill. He's dead weight. Falcon can only boost special tiles, no bird strike or redwing to show players what he can do. Do you see what I'm saying here? Why would anyone new player want to invest in character packs when they can't even get a proper preview of their skill set?

All I'm asking for here is the loaner character to be 60 1/1/1 instead 1/0/0. It just makes far more sense that way.

Unknown

I voted yes, but due to the way the AI plays it is often detrimental to have 1/1/1 compared to 1/0/0. For example Daken having Chemical Reaction means he can get rid of other valuable strike tiles put down by teammates while doing no damage. Having healing & heat at level 1 generally just means he will randomly lose health for no reason without getting it back. In general any loaned character with a red or green is going to be a bad idea because whatever the loaned character uses is likely way worse than your team's normal red/green ability.

Without doing anything complicated I think they'd have to program like the AI to just never use the ability of the loaned character on defense if there's any other character that can use the same color ability. Yes I'm sure sometimes you can think of a scenario where this makes it worse and this won't solve the issue of Daken (even if he has the only blue it'd be strictly worse to use his blue if your team has other strike tile generators) but it should be good enough in general.

OnesOwnGrief

In the case of Daken, I wouldn't mind if it cleared the weakest tiles first with Chemical Reaction. Considering he'll be dropping his own tiles, that would be one less random thing to worry about. Though I'm honestly beginning to think that these characters aren't initially conceptualized with how they'd interact with others and more so how they work on their own. Falcon, Daken, Captain Marvel, and Sentry all being recent examples.

Pwuz_

Phantron wrote:

I voted yes, but due to the way the AI plays it is often detrimental to have 1/1/1 compared to 1/0/0. For example Daken having Chemical Reaction means he can get rid of other valuable strike tiles put down by teammates while doing no damage. Having healing & heat at level 1 generally just means he will randomly lose health for no reason without getting it back. In general any loaned character with a red or green is going to be a bad idea because whatever the loaned character uses is likely way worse than your team's normal red/green ability.

Without doing anything complicated I think they'd have to program like the AI to just never use the ability of the loaned character on defense if there's any other character that can use the same color ability. Yes I'm sure sometimes you can think of a scenario where this makes it worse and this won't solve the issue of Daken (even if he has the only blue it'd be strictly worse to use his blue if your team has other strike tile generators) but it should be good enough in general.

That issue is the same if you have only collected 1/1/1 for the featured character as well. I would certainly mitdigate the handicap of not having a well leveled character. I'd even go as far as to say this would encourage newer players to try to finish those characters and build up further themselves while giving them a better (but still low) chance to reach some useful covers.

simonsez

This idea would remove the incentive to rank high enough in the previous event to win those covers. Isn't that the only reason the featured character in each event is the character that was awarded in the previous one?

Unknown

Pwuz_ wrote:

Phantron wrote:

I voted yes, but due to the way the AI plays it is often detrimental to have 1/1/1 compared to 1/0/0. For example Daken having Chemical Reaction means he can get rid of other valuable strike tiles put down by teammates while doing no damage. Having healing & heat at level 1 generally just means he will randomly lose health for no reason without getting it back. In general any loaned character with a red or green is going to be a bad idea because whatever the loaned character uses is likely way worse than your team's normal red/green ability.

Without doing anything complicated I think they'd have to program like the AI to just never use the ability of the loaned character on defense if there's any other character that can use the same color ability. Yes I'm sure sometimes you can think of a scenario where this makes it worse and this won't solve the issue of Daken (even if he has the only blue it'd be strictly worse to use his blue if your team has other strike tile generators) but it should be good enough in general.

That issue is the same if you have only collected 1/1/1 for the featured character as well. I would certainly mitdigate the handicap of not having a well leveled character. I'd even go as far as to say this would encourage newer players to try to finish those characters and build up further themselves while giving them a better (but still low) chance to reach some useful covers.

OffTopic ::::

Hi Pwuz recently send apetition to join into a alliance.. i am interested join in Planet express (my nick is DrHardwarwe) i cant contact to you because. recently registered on forum and cant send private messages..

please how can talk to you? thx.

:::Offtopic

Unknown

Currently if you've a 1/1/1 featured character you're often better off using the 1/0/0 even before considering the fact that the loaned character never has to be healed because the extra covers increases the chance your character uses a move that does practically no damage while wasting that AP.

Dayv

This could be a win financially as well. If players without a character get to try out all three powers, they might be more interested in throwing money aw-- er, buying token packs.

homeinvasion

I think they give us loaners to entice us to buy into the character, once you see how the combos work, which would generate more revenue. So undeniably using all three abilities would give a much greater overview into the character and therefore generate more money.

Unknown

This would disadvantage players with their own 1/0/0 or 1/1/0 characters. The current system gives an advantage to anyone with at least 2 covers of the character. Further, this allows players to see how just a single ability of a new character could impact their team. (Usually it doesn't and the ability sucks, but it's possible).

I'm not completely against this, but am skeptical of the benefits of changing.

OnesOwnGrief

daibar wrote:

This would disadvantage players with their own 1/0/0 or 1/1/0 characters. The current system gives an advantage to anyone with at least 2 covers of the character. Further, this allows players to see how just a single ability of a new character could impact their team. (Usually it doesn't and the ability sucks, but it's possible).

I'm not completely against this, but am skeptical of the benefits of changing.

I'm not sure if you are using disadvantage correctly. If a person has a 1/0/0 of their own or a 1/1/0, this would help them even more. It gives them a reusable unleveled character instead of one in which they'll use, lose in a match, and be forced to use the loaner anyways. No sane person is going to use a health pack on a 1/0/0 - 1/1/1 of their own. The loaner is always available during featured character pvps and you are never forced into using your own character. That is exactly how it works right now.

Unknown

Lol. 'Disadvantage': in terms of remove an advantage that a player might have over other players by paying for in terms of roster spots or other covers. Other players with the same effort might have invested covers/iso to a different hero, and thus gain an advantage over the player with the extra pvp hero's covers.

I'm not sure of your meaning. Are you arguing that no one uses a 1/1/1 of their own in these tournaments? Because that is definitely not the case, particularly when setting your defensive team. You need not use a health-pack.

Unknown

I think he is saying that no one stops playing if their 1/1/0 hero goes down when there is a 1/0/0 loaner available. Can you use your own? sure but there are already advantages to using the loaner and having a better loaner would improve gameplay enjoyment for those without a high level featured character, but not so much that those who have a 166 would be inconvenienced by a level 60 1/1/1 in the slightest.

Pwuz_

Cryptobrancus wrote:

I think he is saying that no one stops playing if their 1/1/0 hero goes down when there is a 1/0/0 loaner available. Can you use your own? sure but there are already advantages to using the loaner and having a better loaner would improve gameplay enjoyment for those without a high level featured character, but not so much that those who have a 166 would be inconvenienced by a level 60 1/1/1 in the slightest.

Depending on the character, that's not actually true. Someone with a 166 character would be slightly inconvenienced by a 1/1/1 loaner when that character has a Passive ability like Daken or Spider-Man. Slightly. I seriously doubt it would jeopardize their victory, but a slight inconvenience none the less.

Houtro

That should be happening in the first place! It was the ideal to try the character and for those who don't have him become wishful.

Dayv

Alternatively, they could randomize the available powers per battle, or set them per node, so you get 1/0/0, 0/1/0, and 0/0/1 at different times, but someone who has managed to build a 1/0/1 or 1/1/1 character still has an obvious benefit in not using a loaner (other than the fact they can add about 5 levels to their non-loaner).

OnesOwnGrief

DayvBang wrote:

Alternatively, they could randomize the available powers per battle, or set them per node, so you get 1/0/0, 0/1/0, and 0/0/1 at different times, but someone who has managed to build a 1/0/1 or 1/1/1 character still has an obvious benefit in not using a loaner (other than the fact they can add about 5 levels to their non-loaner).

5 levels is going to at most add 3 additional points of match color damage which is 9 damage for a match 3. That is such a trivial increase that it may as not be nonexistent in most cases. How often so you find yourself in a situation where you wish you did 9 points more extra damage?

Pwuz_

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

DayvBang wrote:

Alternatively, they could randomize the available powers per battle, or set them per node, so you get 1/0/0, 0/1/0, and 0/0/1 at different times, but someone who has managed to build a 1/0/1 or 1/1/1 character still has an obvious benefit in not using a loaner (other than the fact they can add about 5 levels to their non-loaner).

5 levels is going to at most add 3 additional points of match color damage which is 9 damage for a match 3. That is such a trivial increase that it may as not be nonexistent in most cases. How often so you find yourself in a situation where you wish you did 9 points more extra damage?

Don't forget that IF they made the loaner 1/1/1, it wouldn't have to have any additional levels to still give players a little more of a feel for the character. Heck, that would even make playing your 1/1/0 or such character (slightly) better as you could add those extra levels for the extra damage & health.

Unknown

That sounds cool. I am also trying to participate more so I can reply to someone who wrote to me. I hope this helps.

Unknown

Do this. This is good.

Unknown

So why are all the seed teams 1/1/1. Just think it would be a major improvement to pvp. It would also let you get a feel for the character. Please implement this.