My unpopular opinion-- MPQ is better than ever

Unknown

scottee wrote:

In a game with real-world timers, why shouldn't people who go out of their way to play more strategically be more successful?

To me 'play every 2.5 hours' or 'play at 5 AM' doesn't sound as strategic at all.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

The PACman wrote:

JCTthe3rd81 wrote:

IMHO, it makes the game more even for everyone.

It would make the game even for everyone if it wasn't for one tiny, tiny detail you are overlooking –
If you have the hard cash it is possible to buy health packs.

Even without that it's far from even as long as whoever plays spread out through the whole day can benefit from 40 health packs and 6-10 full character regens, while playing the same amount of time in 2 sessions allows a QUARTER of that and in 1 session half or the previous. That is tremendous difference to those fitting the MPQ-dictated schedule or willing to bend to it.

It's NOT edge created by putting in more work, more effort. Not about more skill or strategy. Just simply about being around able to drop in and play moments spread round the clock.

Calling that more even is simply ridiculous.

In a game with real-world timers, why shouldn't people who go out of their way to play more strategically be more successful? If people are willing to bend their schedules for a game, shouldn't they have an advantage? I'd love to have the time to compete in one of the top alliances. But I've decided I don't want to spend that much time on the game and not be at the mercy of certain levels of scheduling and communication, so I took a place in a top 50 alliance instead of a top 10 one. I have no qualms that I don't compete with scores from the top 10 alliances, because I've decided how much real-world commitment I want to put in.

What about casual players? The ones that only have an hour and a half in the evening to play?

Those players that could only log on once a day last week can still only log in once a day this week, but their play time during that session is cut significantly without in-match healing. This also means Iso and cover acquisition is cut significantly, so the idea of using a diverse set of characters to compensate for the lack of longevity is a pipe dream or a cruel joke.

In the end the hardcore players that could play all day can still do that, they just have to adjust their playtimes. It could be argued that this is unfair to players as well; Demuirge shouldn't be in the business of dictating or enforcing preferences. But regardless, the top players (that haven't quit in frustration) will still be the top players. The ones with more limited playtime are just going to slip farther behind.

scottee

pasa_ wrote:

scottee wrote:

In a game with real-world timers, why shouldn't people who go out of their way to play more strategically be more successful?

To me 'play every 2.5 hours' or 'play at 5 AM' doesn't sound as strategic at all.

Is it more strategic to play an hour right before an event ends rather than an hour right when it starts? Yes.

I know that is more or less convenient for different people, but even so, some are willing to make sacrifices in order to make it happen, while others are not. You decide how hard you want to compete.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

I know that is more or less convenient for different people, but even so, some are willing to make sacrifices in order to make it happen, while others are not. You decide how hard you want to compete.

Ah, I thought a game should be about FUN, not about sacrifice.

But at least we stepped a little forward admitting clearly that the 'better than ever' aspect of MPQ is that it forces sacrifices on others -- no wonder it is 'unpopular'. The remainder that beats me why someone is so proud to wave such an opinion really.

scottee

RockMonster wrote:

What about casual players? The ones that only have an hour and a half in the evening to play?

Those players that could only log on once a day last week can still only log in once a day this week, but their play time during that session is cut significantly without in-match healing. This also means Iso and cover acquisition is cut significantly, so the idea of using a diverse set of characters to compensate for the lack of longevity is a pipe dream or a cruel joke.

In the end the hardcore players that could play all day can still do that, they just have to adjust their playtimes. It could be argued that this is unfair to players as well; Demuirge shouldn't be in the business of dictating or enforcing preferences. But regardless, the top players (that haven't quit in frustration) will still be the top players. The ones with more limited playtime are just going to slip farther behind.

Casual players can play Candy Crush for 15 min and not be able to play again until the next day. Someone playing MPQ casually has to play similarly. Win a match by taking less damage, get to play again. Play a match taking a lot of damage or losing characters completely, get to play less. If you're playing casually, you're not worried about covers. And if your goal is to play MPQ for 1.5 hours a day, I'd say that's not playing casually. My brother is in 2* land, his wife limits him to 30 minutes of play a day, and he gets around 500 points per PVP.

OBW healing basically allowed non-stop playing in a game where the developers clearly wanted to limit play with the health pack mechanic. Otherwise, the mechanic wouldn't exist. With OBW and 2* Thor, I was basically able to play indefinitely, as I would average about 40 minutes in between needing health packs, so I never ran out. In fact, the only reason I'd stop playing in an event was that my score was high enough that I was taking more losses than I could make up in wins, so I'd shield. Did I milk healing for all it was worth? Yes. Did I think that was the way the game was intended to be played. No way.

scottee

pasa_ wrote:

scottee wrote:

I know that is more or less convenient for different people, but even so, some are willing to make sacrifices in order to make it happen, while others are not. You decide how hard you want to compete.

Ah, I thought a game should be about FUN, not about sacrifice.

But at least we stepped a little forward admitting clearly that the 'better than ever' aspect of MPQ is that it forces sacrifices on others -- no wonder it is 'unpopular'. The remainder that beats me why someone is so proud to wave such an opinion really.

PLENTY of people in top alliances have said it is not fun to play at that high of a level of competition. Which is why they had turnover. I agree that making real-life sacrifices for a game is not fun. That's why I don't do it.

Yes, fun is often indirectly proportional with competing. Again, you get to choose at what level you compete at.

You don't HAVE TO sacrifice at all. You only have to is you want to compete at a certain level. You could play for 30 min day, score 300-400 points in every PVP, and eventually, through very slow progression, eventually get enough 3* covers through tokens to be useful. Is it slow as hell? Yes. But some people might find playing that way funner than waking up at some God-awful hour to play optimally.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

RockMonster wrote:

What about casual players? The ones that only have an hour and a half in the evening to play?

Those players that could only log on once a day last week can still only log in once a day this week, but their play time during that session is cut significantly without in-match healing. This also means Iso and cover acquisition is cut significantly, so the idea of using a diverse set of characters to compensate for the lack of longevity is a pipe dream or a cruel joke.

In the end the hardcore players that could play all day can still do that, they just have to adjust their playtimes. It could be argued that this is unfair to players as well; Demuirge shouldn't be in the business of dictating or enforcing preferences. But regardless, the top players (that haven't quit in frustration) will still be the top players. The ones with more limited playtime are just going to slip farther behind.

Casual players can play Candy Crush for 15 min and not be able to play again until the next day. Someone playing MPQ casually has to play similarly. Win a match by taking less damage, get to play again. Play a match taking a lot of damage or losing characters completely, get to play less. If you're playing casually, you're not worried about covers. And if you're goal is to play MPQ for 1.5 hours a day, I'd say that's not playing casually. My brother is in 2* land, his wife limits him to 30 minutes of play a day, and he gets around 500 points per PVP.

OBW healing basically allowed non-stop playing in a game where the developers clearly wanted to limit play with the health pack mechanic. Otherwise, the mechanic wouldn't exist. With OBW and 2* Thor, I was basically able to play indefinitely, as I would average about 40 minutes in between needing health packs, so I never ran out. In fact, the only reason I'd stop playing in an event was that my score was high enough that I was taking more losses than I could make up in wins, so I'd shield. Did I milk healing for all it was worth? Yes. Did I think that was the way the game was intended to be played. No way.

Part of what is so jarring about this change is that it was sudden and dramatic. From day 1 Candy Crush is a game you can only play for 15 minutes a day. MPQ was not, until now. Instead of changing the meta in a player-friendly way, they burned it to the ground and told players to adjust.

If true healing is going to be a thing then we should switch to a daily limit on health packs, as opposed to a timer. This would allow people to continue playing in block sessions if that is their preference while still limiting overall playtime, rather than forcing everyone to convert to short bursts of play whether they like it or not. It would balance this system for everyone from casual to strategically hardcore, with the option to unbalance it for a couple of dollars through health pack purchases.

orionpeace

scottee wrote:

No, I think people are talking about the end goal of developing maxed 3*'s. The step before that? Develop a diverse 2* roster. Have some maxed 2*'s but not enough 3* covers to put iso into? Max out a different 2*. The only people who should actually be worried about the OBW healing change are people with maxed 2*'s, but no usable 3*'s. I'm saying, there's still more for them to develop. Develop more 2*'s. Don't just max Ares/Thor/OBW and then think you're ready to move on the 3*.

There's several steps in between the 2* and 3* stage. More than people think. I know because I've done it, completely F2P. But I'm not going to explain it all because I think people should figure it out for themselves instead of reading a walkthrough online.

So, basically, "I did it before the change, when it was easier. I figured it out. And even though it is different now, you can go figure it out on your own. I won't help you."

As if anything you would have to say regarding a guide or walkthrough would even be relevant now. I assure you, you don't have the insights you think you do.

And I can't help but feel that you are here as a devil's advocate. You almost seem to be defending a position you don't actually hold yourself.

I don't understand what YOU really think. Or why.

Do you just like being contrary and arguing for the hell of it? I'm not judging. It just really seems to be what you are doing.

scottee

RockMonster wrote:

Part of what is so jarring about this change is that it was sudden and dramatic. From day 1 Candy Crush is a game you can only play for 15 minutes a day. MPQ was not, until now. Instead of changing the meta in a player-friendly way, they burned it to the ground and told players to adjust.

If true healing is going to be a thing then we should switch to a daily limit on health packs, as opposed to a timer. This would allow people to continue playing in block sessions if that is their preference while still limiting overall playtime, rather than forcing everyone to convert to short bursts of play whether they like it or not. It would balance this system for everyone from casual to strategically hardcore, with the option to unbalance it for a couple of dollars through health pack purchases.

Yeah, I think a lot of people were used to playing one way, and sudden changes are never easy for player bases. Some adjust quickly, some adjust slowly, and some stop playing.

I personally don't mind because everyone else adjusting slowly is allowing me to dominate the current PVE. People haven't learned how to play without OBW healing yet, so I'm playing the same, yet doing top 10/20 instead of top 100 without changing too much of what I do.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

RockMonster wrote:

Part of what is so jarring about this change is that it was sudden and dramatic. From day 1 Candy Crush is a game you can only play for 15 minutes a day. MPQ was not, until now. Instead of changing the meta in a player-friendly way, they burned it to the ground and told players to adjust.

If true healing is going to be a thing then we should switch to a daily limit on health packs, as opposed to a timer. This would allow people to continue playing in block sessions if that is their preference while still limiting overall playtime, rather than forcing everyone to convert to short bursts of play whether they like it or not. It would balance this system for everyone from casual to strategically hardcore, with the option to unbalance it for a couple of dollars through health pack purchases.

Yeah, I think a lot of people were used to playing one way, and sudden changes are never easy for player bases. Some adjust quickly, some adjust slowly, and some stop playing.

I personally don't mind because everyone else adjusting slowly is allowing me to dominate the current PVE. People haven't learned how to play without OBW healing yet, so I'm playing the same, yet doing top 10/20 instead of top 100 without changing too much of what I do.

So you vehemently defend these changes because everyone else's suffering is your gain?

scottee

RockMonster wrote:

scottee wrote:

RockMonster wrote:

Part of what is so jarring about this change is that it was sudden and dramatic. From day 1 Candy Crush is a game you can only play for 15 minutes a day. MPQ was not, until now. Instead of changing the meta in a player-friendly way, they burned it to the ground and told players to adjust.

If true healing is going to be a thing then we should switch to a daily limit on health packs, as opposed to a timer. This would allow people to continue playing in block sessions if that is their preference while still limiting overall playtime, rather than forcing everyone to convert to short bursts of play whether they like it or not. It would balance this system for everyone from casual to strategically hardcore, with the option to unbalance it for a couple of dollars through health pack purchases.

Yeah, I think a lot of people were used to playing one way, and sudden changes are never easy for player bases. Some adjust quickly, some adjust slowly, and some stop playing.

I personally don't mind because everyone else adjusting slowly is allowing me to dominate the current PVE. People haven't learned how to play without OBW healing yet, so I'm playing the same, yet doing top 10/20 instead of top 100 without changing too much of what I do.

So you vehemently defend these changes because everyone else's suffering is your gain?

I didn't say I vehemently defend. I just don't think they're as big of a deal as everyone's making them out to be. Do I prefer the old healing system? Yes. But things change. You find a new advantage and move on. There's plenty of times in life that things don't go your way. Plenty of times things are unfair. You choose how you respond to them. And yes, it's possible not only survive, but thrive, even if the given conditions are unfavorable. I choose to find a way to thrive.

Honestly, there are ways to do it. I'm not saying yay me and boo on everyone else. I'm actually trying to suggest that there ARE ways to still play well, and compete, and play for somewhat long periods of time. Those who find them first will do better, especially with the changes being so recent. Eventually, everyone will adjust. But for now, yes, I'll gladly take a higher place finish because others haven't adjusted yet.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

Pylos wrote:

scottee wrote:

You can still play for a long time, just have to develop other characters. And no, that's not really slower. Many players do the entire 2* development up until several maxed 85's with no healing at all. (Plus covers drop like candy.)

Do you really think anyone was talking about how long it takes to build a 2* roster?

No, I think people are talking about the end goal of developing maxed 3*'s. The step before that? Develop a diverse 2* roster. Have some maxed 2*'s but not enough 3* covers to put iso into? Max out a different 2*. The only people who should actually be worried about the OBW healing change are people with maxed 2*'s, but no usable 3*'s. I'm saying, there's still more for them to develop. Develop more 2*'s. Don't just max Ares/Thor/OBW and then think you're ready to move on the 3*.

There's several steps in between the 2* and 3* stage. More than people think. I know because I've done it, completely F2P. But I'm not going to explain it all because I think people should figure it out for themselves instead of reading a walkthrough online.

There really are not that many steps, as you say. Just how diverse do you think a 2* roster can be? Are we counting bagman and bullseye here? Sorry, it takes very little time now to max out 2* and begin the 3* transition. And that transition sucks more than ever. So you say the only people that this sucks for are people with maxed 2* rosters but not yet comepetetive in 3* land. What you fail to realize is this isnt some tiny population and I have to imagine it'll only grow with how much easier it is to get 2* and how much more difficult to get useable 3*.

FaerieMyst

I play in bits and drabs. Fifteen minutes in the morning, when I have my morning tea, at my mid-morning break, after I eat my lunch, etc . . . . Even during the evening I take breaks to play other games or read or watch the Jaeger beat up the Kaiju with the tanker. I look at the temp heal as a shield. It still keeps me alive and that is what counts.

Mystwalker (who started playing because I did) does most of his playing evenings and weekends. He'll play for several hours in the evening. Once in a while he takes a break during the day and plays a few matches or maybe gets up early to play a little but mostly his is done in stretches. He had the patience to go grind out heals in the prologue. His reaction to not being able to do it anymore: "Bummer. Hey, you were right, Hood's yellow is great. I'm gonna level up his blue."

DD-The-Mighty

FaerieMyst wrote:

I play in bits and drabs. Fifteen minutes in the morning, when I have my morning tea, at my mid-morning break, after I eat my lunch, etc . . . . Even during the evening I take breaks to play other games or read or watch the Jaeger beat up the Kaiju with the tanker. I look at the temp heal as a shield. It still keeps me alive and that is what counts.

Mystwalker (who started playing because I did) does most of his playing evenings and weekends. He'll play for several hours in the evening. Once in a while he takes a break during the day and plays a few matches or maybe gets up early to play a little but mostly his is done in stretches. He had the patience to go grind out heals in the prologue. His reaction to not being able to do it anymore: "Bummer. Hey, you were right, Hood's yellow is great. I'm gonna level up his blue."

You heard it here first folks. Mist*alker, via F*erieMyst, has reacted to the change with a resounding "MEH". Your arguments are now invalid. Be silent and go home, for Mist*alker, via F*erieMyst, does. not. care.

Unknown

Unknown

It's not about Farmville or being competitive or not competitive.

Your comparison to farmville was made to justify the point that being able to harvest hay twice a day gave that player an advantage. An advantage over whom if it is not a competitive game? Nobody else here started making ridiculous comparisons to other games.

Would most players love being able to play without ever needing to heal? Sure. But the unintended consequence would be that the competitions would be a grind. People have complained in the distant and recent past that this game is too much of a grind. Guess what? It's not as much of a grind anymore. OBW healing put it somewhere in the middle. Still felt like a grind for some, while others thought it wasn't. Now with the healing change, many people think the game is less fun, but far fewer think it's a grind anymore.

So, in your opinion, its far better to have a game that is both less grindy and less fun? If everybody healed all the time i dont think it would be any more grindy than it was with most people healing all the time anyway. And thats what rubberbanding is for.

As to players playing throughout the day being more committed, I'd say yes. Someone who plays five 1-hour sessions is more committed than someone who plays one 5-hour session. Both have the same total play hours, but the former inconvenienced themselves more.

Scottee, Scottee, Scottee tsk tsk. This is where we have a real problem, son, if it was back in the day I would be slapping your face with my glove and calling you out in a duel. How dare you suggest that i and others like me are not committed to playing this game. You are unbelievabe. i have been playing this game since before Christmas. i have not rushed to get into 3* land, i am content to enjoy myself and play when i am able which is for a half hour or so in the morning and then for a much larger time in the evening. I play on Steam and i am in the UK, both points that probably help me to be less 'committed' in your eyes, I suppose. I dont think there has been a day i have not played this game since discovering it. i have every character apart from Nick and She-Hulk. All my 1*s are at max, I have 8 maxed 2*s with the rest getting there and a few of my 3*s are finally starting to gain covers and have ISO put into them too. Also I have, in the past, spent money on this game, more money than I have ever spent on a game in fact. And you have the audacity and sheer balls to say me and players like me are not as committed to this game?

You can still play for a long time, just have to develop other characters. And no, that's not really slower. Many players do the entire 2* development up until several maxed 85's with no healing at all. (Plus covers drop like candy.)

I would argue that only 1* covers drop like candy. 2* covers, although obviously being far more prevalent than they used to be, are still alot less likely to drop. Most matches you play will give you ISO, of the ones that do drop a cover the majority by a large margin are 1*s.

In end, it only comes down to a couple things. If people don't like the game, they'll stop playing and stop spending money. Then the devs will make adjustments or the game will die. But when changes are made in a game, you either adjust or you don't. Healing was one of the more advantageous strategies that people were milking. It's no longer possible. So find another advantageous strategy.

Ok, here is the first and only thing you have ever said that I can agree with and actually makes some sense. We do need to adjust, that is clear. The change wont be reversed, this company are too short-sighted to do that. And although I still love this game (despite apparently not being committed enough) I have stopped spending money on it and I have been playing other games alot more due to MPQ not wanting me to play with it. The danger for D3P is that lots of people might do the same and actually prefer the other games and not come back.

Unknown

I'm on the verge of losing interest and uninstalling the game. I was excited to finally get my fifth obw blue cover, about a week before true healing hit. I have a marginally diverse roster of 2* but most aren't optimally or even full covered. Most of my roster spots are taken up with the odd 3* character with five or less covers. My 3* with the most covers I think is daredevil.

I have close to 90k iso8 I can't spend because I can't get covers. I was getting covers pretty well in pvp just grinding simulator or events but I never place well so getting the good covers never happens. I don't know what to do at this point, where I have enough full 2* guys to have two or three teams so I can play three matches then I'm done unless I use health packs. I guess I need to buy hp to level my ares or buy cover packs or whatever but honestly I just liked being able to match stuff for a while. Might be time to recharge the Nintendo DS so I can play the old puzzle quest game I've got for that. No scaling, no mmr hell, no rubberbanding, no retaliation, no trashing a yellow ares cover each week because you only need red, etc. just matching and stomping baddies in pve. It was fun, just plain fun.

squirrel1120

I'm just a little ahead solarris, been running 2* teams for about a month and a half. Once I realized that pvp wasnt something that needed to be avoided like the plague like I do in most games(I just don't enjoy it), the transition from 1* to 2* went very quickly. Despite trashing all the thor covers from prolog because of not understanding the star rating system, my first 2*'s to be maxed were Thor and OBW. Sub-optimally covered, but it was better than nothing, and let me 'grind out' (meaning play a game I was loving) the rest of the 2* crew I was looking to take with max covers in no time. Literally, I had max covers on 4-5 2* toons with no iso to put on them, which over time also reversed due to 'grinding'. Now... a player with a small roster can not even do that...

Meanwhile, folks with huge rosters of max characters are barely effected as I understand.

All my 3* toons are useless in any real match. They still would have been for a considerable time even under the old system, pre- true healing. Now... that race just got so much longer. If you mentally and physically train for a real race that is a 5k or something, its really going to take the wind out of your sails if all of a sudden during the middle of the match someone throws up a sign that just simply tells you the race just became a 10k. I can only hope they add some other change that lets us who can only play in blocks of time continue to do so.

I also have Daredevil as my highest 3* toon. How mortified was I on finding out how incredibly bad he is during his featured tournament? All his traps only ever went off a grand total of... maybe... twice the entire tournament. What a poor investment, I wish I could have the iso back.

DD-The-Mighty

The PACman wrote:

I would argue that only 1* covers drop like candy. 2* covers, although obviously being far more prevalent than they used to be, are still alot less likely to drop. Most matches you play will give you ISO, of the ones that do drop a cover the majority by a large margin are 1*s.

This right here. I'm glad someone else noticed that. Yes 2* drops across the board are up. So everyone is getting a bunch of random 2*s making focusing on your favourite/good 2*s pure chance. Reinforced by the cruel removal of 2 out of the three covers from the pve/pvp rewards. I do not envy players in the early to mid 2* game.

Unknown

Agreed. That's exactly what I wanted to say.