Thoughts from a 2* player

GrumpySmurf1002

I know, I know. But I see a lot of 3* guys weighing in, so I thought one more from a 2* couldn't hurt. I've put some of this out there in various comments, others are new thoughts from playing around with the new system. I wanted to assemble it one list for the purposes of discussion.

-First and foremost, the game requires actual thought now. No more fighting with OBW, healing up, and going to the next game. You need to plan which event you play in a given moment, your roster, your opponents (through strategic skipping based on your own roster + their health), your matching, your ability launching. Everything needs to be planned now. That's the biggest change this has brought. It's blown up some strategies that were obvious and brought on a bigger challenge. If you want a mindless diversion, the 2* level is no longer for you, sorry.

-OBW is still fine. Her other abilities are still really strong. No, she can't heal, but she can protect with anti-gravity. Launching that blue quickly means your Ares/Thor/whoever that starts a game with 70% health can probably finish that way, which allows for extended play. You won't see it now with her locked in PvP (which is only fueling the outrage), but she'll still be a staple of Blind Justice, guaranteed.

-PvP is the only real game element affected, PvE and Sim are still very winnable. 3 character teams, even now, are still viable for extended play, provided thought is put into their construction, and you have some roster flexibility. 2 character teams with a loaner or under-leveled Feature will have a much harder time surviving. Seems counter-intuitive that 3 characters are easier to keep healthy than 2, but spreading damage across 3 characters instead of 2 means they're more usable when you're done. Not to mention 3 85's are clearly more powerful than 85-85-23, so you have a better chance of getting your nukes out in time to avoid major damage. Again, OBW will help here soon enough, but its still going to be a difficult climb.

- Yes, that means your ascent to 3* by getting PvP covers has hit a bit of a wall. It means that you'll have to bounce back and forth between a few game modes while guys heal. You'll have to use an extra shield or 3 here and there. It's not impossible, but the reality is you have to put the ego down and realize one 3* cover is still one more you didn't have before, even if you were placing high enough to get 2 or 3 covers before.

-On that note, if you have only a couple max 2* guys (3-4) and have been dumping ISO into 3*'s under the guise of "transitioning," stop it now. You're not in 'transition,' you're in no mans land. You're the player most affected by this change. Being a 2* player now means owning a 2* roster, which requires having at least 6, if not 8 or 10 max guys (incl duplicates of key characters if need be) before you're ready to start leveling your 3* guys. It's not your fault, this change wasn't predictable, but the MMR changes should've slowed you down to begin with. The options are get annoyed and quit (understandable), or take the hit, step back and start building towards the end goal again.

- That said, because of the 3-character dynamic, it's not a bad idea to soft cap a few 3* guys you know you're going to build all the way anyway (not Daredevil) to lvl 30-50. This way when their events do hit PvP, you have a more viable character to eat/deal damage. Those are the events where you might stand a chance in PvP.

-Embrace new combinations. If you try to run Ares/Thor through a wall and heal them at the first opportunity, yes, your gameplay will be affected. It is another spot where PvP is affected (defense), but the offensive advantage in this game is strong enough that most combinations can still help you win and climb. It may not feel that way, but Moonstone's red nuke is just as good a supplement to Ares as Wolverine's, and she at least has more health and an additional color to hit with (only counting purple here). If you're smart about when you use them and you still set your defense properly at the end, retaliations aren't going to really hurt any more than normal.

-It's still a good game. It's a different game than two months ago, or even last week, but it's still pretty good, IMO.

FaerieMyst

Excellent post.

A few months ago I was transitioning from 2* to 3*. I made sure most of my 2* characters were fully leveled. It made a huge difference. I still actively play with many of them.

Unless you buy ISO and gold, it will take a long time to get your 3* characters leveled up. It takes time to collect the covers and it takes lots of ISO for those upper levels. Get a strong 2* team and you can still be competitive.

Ducky

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

First and foremost, the game requires actual thought now.

Pretty sure this is what has people pissed off the most. I, however, welcome the change.

scottee

DuckyV wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

First and foremost, the game requires actual thought now.

Pretty sure this is what has people pissed off the most. I, however, welcome the change.

I agree. Most people were playing this as a fighting game. I'm glad each 'puzzle' decision matters a little more now.

Unknown

DuckyV wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

First and foremost, the game requires actual thought now.

Pretty sure this is what has people pissed off the most. I, however, welcome the change.

Me use pretty lady plus clawman/hammer guy. Me smash face into phone till flashy lights say me win. Hard part is keeping drool off screen. Why me fingers orange? Oh cuz of cheetah puffs.


This healing change places no more required thought than was necessary before beyond trying to figure out what to do while your medpacks regen. OBW and spidey let you extend your game time long enough to use attrition on the better rosetted teams. "But the prologue healing...." Would you feel better if I went into shield sim and healed? Or maybe I'll use one of the featured PVEs.

orionpeace

DuckyV wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

First and foremost, the game requires actual thought now.

Pretty sure this is what has people pissed off the most. I, however, welcome the change.

Ok. That is just insulting.

I have a very limited 2* roster. And I'm pissed off. It has nothing to do with having to think and make choices. So climb down from the horse. You aren't superior.

Here's a choice for you: 85 OBW, 72 Wolverine, 69 MMN, 67 Classic Storm, 41 Thor.

Now pick your team. How long do you think you will get to play before you have to wait 3 hours to play again?

That is what I am pissed about. I have invested time and money into this game. I liked it. And I want to PLAY it.

I don't feel entitled to top end rewards. I don't expect an easy ride. I just want to be able to effing play the game.

So, if I am willing to grind it out in bursts here and there every day, eventually, I will have enough heroes that I can play more than 20 minutes at a time.

I don't, and most gamers don't, pick games that we can only play for such short time windows. We're gamers because we are addicted to the games we play.

Being denied the ability to play the games we want to play for any sustainable length of time is frustrating. Frustration leads to anger...and the Dark Side.

So, please, if you have a large enough roster that you can play to your heart's content, don't tell those of us that don't how we feel and why we feel that way.

Ducky

orionpeace wrote:

DuckyV wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

First and foremost, the game requires actual thought now.

Pretty sure this is what has people pissed off the most. I, however, welcome the change.

Ok. That is just insulting.

I have a very limited 2* roster. And I'm pissed off. It has nothing to do with having to think and make choices. So climb down from the horse. You aren't superior.

Here's a choice for you: 85 OBW, 72 Wolverine, 69 MMN, 67 Classic Storm, 41 Thor.

Now pick your team. How long do you think you will get to play before you have to wait 3 hours to play again?

That is what I am pissed about. I have invested time and money into this game. I liked it. And I want to PLAY it.

I don't feel entitled to top end rewards. I don't expect an easy ride. I just want to be able to effing play the game.

So, if I am willing to grind it out in bursts here and there every day, eventually, I will have enough heroes that I can play more than 20 minutes at a time.

I don't, and most gamers don't, pick games that we can only play for such short time windows. We're gamers because we are addicted to the games we play.

Being denied the ability to play the games we want to play for any sustainable length of time is frustrating. Frustration leads to anger...and the Dark Side.

So, please, if you have a large enough roster that you can play to your heart's content, don't tell those of us that don't how we feel and why we feel that way.

I have an alt account that I play occasionally that only has 85 Cstorm, 85 Thor, and 77 MMN. Everyone else is 43 or below and never used. With only those 3 players I can easily play for at least an hour if I chose my opponents carefully and work the board as best I can.

That being said, bad cascades do happen. They happen to all of us no matter where you are in transition in the game and they usually end up either wiping or greatly damaging your characters. People relied on healing to be able to get themselves out of a pickle when they made a poor match or setup the AI for a match 4 or 5 that cascaded into oblivion. Now that healing isn't around, for the most part, to combat those lapses in playing; it's up to the player to pay more attention to the board setup, to anticipate where other gems will fall, and to use their abilities in the most efficient way possible.

Unknown

Hmm, as a fellow 2* I decided to be a bit more zen about puzzle quest a few weeks ago and enjoy the process. Feeling slightly smug about expanding my 2* roster now, and sleeping more.

Some of the combos are fun to play, capt and magneto I'd not tried before and tanky enough for a few matches. Have however left teams on defence a few times which are very weak when played by the A.I.

GrumpySmurf1002

orionpeace wrote:

I have a very limited 2* roster. Here's a choice for you: 85 OBW, 72 Wolverine, 69 MMN, 67 Classic Storm, 41 Thor. Now pick your team. How long do you think you will get to play before you have to wait 3 hours to play again?

What I said about the 3* transition somewhat goes for the 2* transition too (though less defined). If those are the only 2* you have, a max IM35, MBW, and mStorm, plus probably Juggernaut Venom and Hawkeye, should still be on your roster. The first 3 especially are as good if not better than a 41 Thor and should be very usable. (restricted Heroic's aside)

As for how long you can play, that roster will last a long time in prologue, where you can farm the ISO/tokens to get them much stronger. I understand that's definitely not what you want to hear and certainly not how you've been playing, but it's a solution (and how I originally built, well before this change hit). If you were running PvP, then you just have to be well more selective about who you fight, and hopefully you're not running into too many 85's. The prizes in PvP were dropped so 2* covers are in more abundance for ok finishes.

orionpeace

I have an alt account that I play occasionally that only has 85 Cstorm, 85 Thor, and 77 MMN. Everyone else is 43 or below and never used. With only those 3 players I can easily play for at least an hour if I chose my opponents carefully and work the board as best I can.

That being said, bad cascades do happen. They happen to all of us no matter where you are in transition in the game and they usually end up either wiping or greatly damaging your characters. People relied on healing to be able to get themselves out of a pickle when they made a poor match or setup the AI for a match 4 or 5 that cascaded into oblivion. Now that healing isn't around, for the most part, to combat those lapses in playing; it's up to the player to pay more attention to the board setup, to anticipate where other gems will fall, and to use their abilities in the most efficient way possible.

Right. Because the ONLY possible explanation for a bad cascade is a mistake by the player.

Perhaps you are luckier than I. Perhaps you are the greatest Match 3 Player of all time. Perhaps you can take the same roster I have to go into PvP and play for hours because bad cascades never happen to you.

For the rest of us mortals, the AI can do a match 3, which matches another 3 as they fall, which matches another 3, and then a 4 and then 5. And on the next AI turn all hell breaks loose with their special abilities.

One does not have to make a mistake to lose to get damaged enough that entering another match is foolhardy.

So, I didn't rely on healing to get me out of a pickle I made or caused. I used it to continue PLAYING the game. Cause that is what I want to do with a game I like. Play it.

Ducky

orionpeace wrote:

I have an alt account that I play occasionally that only has 85 Cstorm, 85 Thor, and 77 MMN. Everyone else is 43 or below and never used. With only those 3 players I can easily play for at least an hour if I chose my opponents carefully and work the board as best I can.

That being said, bad cascades do happen. They happen to all of us no matter where you are in transition in the game and they usually end up either wiping or greatly damaging your characters. People relied on healing to be able to get themselves out of a pickle when they made a poor match or setup the AI for a match 4 or 5 that cascaded into oblivion. Now that healing isn't around, for the most part, to combat those lapses in playing; it's up to the player to pay more attention to the board setup, to anticipate where other gems will fall, and to use their abilities in the most efficient way possible.

Right. Because the ONLY possible explanation for a bad cascade is a mistake by the player.

Perhaps you are luckier than I. Perhaps you are the greatest Match 3 Player of all time. Perhaps you can take the same roster I have to go into PvP and play for hours because bad cascades never happen to you.

For the rest of us mortals, the AI can do a match 3, which matches another 3 as they fall, which matches another 3, and then a 4 and then 5. And on the next AI turn all hell breaks loose with their special abilities.

One does not have to make a mistake to lose to get damaged enough that entering another match is foolhardy.

So, I didn't rely on healing to get me out of a pickle I made or caused. I used it to continue PLAYING the game. Cause that is what I want to do with a game I like. Play it.

You need to step back and take a breather and not take everything on here as an assault on you personally. It's just a match 3 game, after all.

orionpeace

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

orionpeace wrote:

I have a very limited 2* roster. Here's a choice for you: 85 OBW, 72 Wolverine, 69 MMN, 67 Classic Storm, 41 Thor. Now pick your team. How long do you think you will get to play before you have to wait 3 hours to play again?

What I said about the 3* transition somewhat goes for the 2* transition too (though less defined). If those are the only 2* you have, a max IM35, MBW, and mStorm, plus probably Juggernaut Venom and Hawkeye, should still be on your roster. The first 3 especially are as good if not better than a 41 Thor and should be very usable. (restricted Heroic's aside)

As for how long you can play, that roster will last a long time in prologue, where you can farm the ISO/tokens to get them much stronger. I understand that's definitely not what you want to hear and certainly not how you've been playing, but it's a solution (and how I originally built, well before this change hit). If you were running PvP, then you just have to be well more selective about who you fight, and hopefully you're not running into too many 85's. The prizes in PvP were dropped so 2* covers are in more abundance for ok finishes.

I don't have Juggs, Venom or Hawkeye. I deleted them due to roster size issues.

I do have a max IM35, MBW, and mStorm. And in some places, I can use them. Just not effectively in PvP and much of PvE events unless they are buffed.

I have other 2* with max covers or close to max. I just don't have the ISOs to level them up. Interestingly enough, PvP is one of the best places to generate ISO. Well, used to be.

orionpeace

DuckyV wrote:

You need to step back and take a breather and not take everything on here as an assault on you personally. It's just a match 3 game, after all.

You were talking to me. So, how is what you say not personal.

And I responded directly to what you wrote.

I don't think you realize how arrogant and high handed your posts sounded.

Perhaps you didn't mean it quite the way it came off. But you started this by saying people were pissed BECAUSE they have to think now and that is a state which you prefer. There is an implied insult in that statement.

My emotions regarding this change had nothing to do with the requirement to think. As you have not recanted that statement and have made subsequent statements implying that healing was just a stop gap for stupid people and bad players, well...it's hard not to be offended by that.

GrumpySmurf1002

orionpeace wrote:

I don't have Juggs, Venom or Hawkeye. I deleted them due to roster size issues.

You've got a step up on me then. I didn't want to spend on roster early either. So I threw out (that I can remember): two Dr. Dooms, a Hood, 2-3 Ragnaroks, 2 Loki's, a Psylocke, a Steve Rogers, and a Daredevil. While having every 1* on the roster. I'm missing five 3* characters. They're all in that list. (i have hood and daredevil now). Oops.

Anyway, that does touch on one big point I missed. Because of the need for 'diversity' is so large, roster spots are a necessity, so if you're not spending on health, spending on those spots is now a necessity. If you can't save enough HP or invest $20 on roster spots (I think that buys somewhere from 8-10, depending where you're at), then you're also in a deep hole now. I'm up to 37 spots I think (bought more to build a 2nd Thor and 2nd OBW), and still question if that'll be enough to be strong enough at 2* while collecting the 3's.

Unknown

[sarcasm]
You silly, stupid, **** 2* players. How dare you read Polarity's Comprehensive Guide on Going From 1* to 3* and think that you should have invested time into OBW? Only weak teams use OBW to extend play sessions.

NorthernPolarity wrote:

OBW - The best 2* support character in the game right now by virtue of having the exact opposite colors of Thorverine and each ability being incredibly relevant. Purple denies your opponent of AP, blue heals you and allows extended play sessions, and black turns her into a damage machine when paired with strike tiles (strike tiles treat the espionage damage as a separate attack, so you basically get double the strike tile damage off of her matches).

If you had put any thought into the game, you'd have done some research and realized that you should have only been using 3 maxed out 2*s, because that's diversity in action.

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Stage 3 - Mid-Game to End-Game (2* -> 3*)

Overview:
Congratulations! You have a maxed out team of 3 2* heroes and are now looking to transition into 3* characters.

The plight of 2* players is entirely of their own making, since they obviously should have done some basic research and knew that in order to play the game, they should have had a full 3* roster.
[/sarcasm]

Unknown

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Anyway, that does touch on one big point I missed. Because of the need for 'diversity' is so large, roster spots are a necessity, so if you're not spending on health, spending on those spots is now a necessity. If you can't save enough HP or invest $20 on roster spots (I think that buys somewhere from 8-10, depending where you're at), then you're also in a deep hole now. I'm up to 37 spots I think (bought more to build a 2nd Thor and 2nd OBW), and still question if that'll be enough to be strong enough at 2* while collecting the 3's.

And this is where the hero point nerf of last week screws the 2* player more. Eliminating the 50hp bonus for top2500 alliances makes it that much harder for 2* players to build roster spots necessary for the diversity necessary to play the game as it is currently set up

GrumpySmurf1002

fidsah wrote:

[sarcasm]
You silly, stupid, **** 2* players. How dare you read Polarity's Comprehensive Guide on Going From 1* to 3* and think that you should have invested time into OBW? Only weak teams use OBW to extend play sessions.

NorthernPolarity wrote:

OBW - The best 2* support character in the game right now by virtue of having the exact opposite colors of Thorverine and each ability being incredibly relevant. Purple denies your opponent of AP, blue heals you and allows extended play sessions, and black turns her into a damage machine when paired with strike tiles (strike tiles treat the espionage damage as a separate attack, so you basically get double the strike tile damage off of her matches).

If you had put any thought into the game, you'd have done some research and realized that you should have only been using 3 maxed out 2*s, because that's diversity in action.

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Stage 3 - Mid-Game to End-Game (2* -> 3*)

Overview:
Congratulations! You have a maxed out team of 3 2* heroes and are now looking to transition into 3* characters.

The plight of 2* players is entirely of their own making, since they obviously should have done some basic research and knew that in order to play the game, they should have had a full 3* roster.
[/sarcasm]

Polarity's guide is still excellent up until the 3* transition. OBW is still the premier 2* support character.

The 3* transition became outdated before the healing change happened, when people who leveled one 3* character (usually Punisher it seems) started saying the new MMR bracketing meant suddenly facing a lot more 494 teams. That was the red flag, not this change.

(I got the sarcasm)

Unknown

As loathe as I am to admit it, I'm not hating the change now that it's here.

I agree with just about every word in the original post. Unfortunately we've had two PVPs in a row that featured 3* characters that I actually have multiple covers of, so I've still been pumping ISO into them instead of my remaining 2*s like I should be. Right now I only have 3 viable combinations to run with but that makes for some interesting strategies. I've found it's best to hit really high point targets with my "Not great, but high HP" team. That way they are less likely to retaliate since (for them) it's paltry points and a relatively lengthy battle.

Plus, the decreased heal times have me playing more often. Yes I'm playing in shorter spurts so it probably evens out, but gone are the days of "I think I'll play a little MPQ ... Oh, my guys are all hurt and I'm out of health packs. ****. Guess I'll have to do something else instead."

Unknown

DuckyV wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

First and foremost, the game requires actual thought now.

Pretty sure this is what has people pissed off the most.....

Seriously????? I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

I'm not trying to be rude, but you must not read these forums too much. The complaints I've seen are from people who spent money for a character that has been changed or in Spidey's case, crippled. It was total **** for them not to announce something so drastic. No in game pop up about this one, just a sneaky, underhanded stealth nerf. They apologized when Ragnarok was nerfed with no notice and said they would give us notice when other nerfs are coming. This time, NO NOTICE AT ALL. People feel lied to and misled (again) because D3 lied through their teeth (again). I've also seen complaints that this nerf/change was done in the middle of Season 3 and various events; one of which involved the release of a brand new (already nerfed!) character. This pissed people off when Thor and Wolverine were nerfed because there were about 4-5 events going on that day, including Lightning Rounds. Lastly, people are pissed because we were told this "true healing" change was made to promote roster diversity, which 3/4 of the people recognize as total ****.

Ducky

MikeHock wrote:

DuckyV wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

First and foremost, the game requires actual thought now.

Pretty sure this is what has people pissed off the most.....

Seriously????? I'm pretty sure you're wrong.

I'm not trying to be rude, but you must not read these forums too much. The complaints I've seen are from people who spent money for a character that has been changed or in Spidey's case, crippled. It was total **** for them not to announce something so drastic. No in game pop up about this one, just a sneaky, underhanded stealth nerf. They apologized when Ragnarok was nerfed with no notice and said they would give us notice when other nerfs are coming. This time, NO NOTICE AT ALL. People feel lied to and misled (again) because D3 lied through their teeth (again). I've also seen complaints that this nerf/change was done in the middle of Season 3 and various events; one of which involved the release of a brand new (already nerfed!) character. This pissed people off when Thor and Wolverine were nerfed because there were about 4-5 events going on that day, including Lightning Rounds. Lastly, people are pissed because we were told this "true healing" change was made to promote roster diversity, which 3/4 of the people recognize as total ****.

We've known Spiderman was going to be nerfed for months. They just didn't tell us exactly when it was going to happen. And as far as it happening during an event, events are always going on, so it's pretty much impossible for it not to occur during an event. Regarding the true healing change, I find it interesting that as time goes on that more and more people are warming up to it and liking the changes.

People don't like change. That's a given. But after they get to experience the change, most find that it wasn't nearly as bad as their assumptions made it out to be.

NorthernPolarity

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

fidsah wrote:

[sarcasm]
You silly, stupid, **** 2* players. How dare you read Polarity's Comprehensive Guide on Going From 1* to 3* and think that you should have invested time into OBW? Only weak teams use OBW to extend play sessions.

NorthernPolarity wrote:

OBW - The best 2* support character in the game right now by virtue of having the exact opposite colors of Thorverine and each ability being incredibly relevant. Purple denies your opponent of AP, blue heals you and allows extended play sessions, and black turns her into a damage machine when paired with strike tiles (strike tiles treat the espionage damage as a separate attack, so you basically get double the strike tile damage off of her matches).

If you had put any thought into the game, you'd have done some research and realized that you should have only been using 3 maxed out 2*s, because that's diversity in action.

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Stage 3 - Mid-Game to End-Game (2* -> 3*)

Overview:
Congratulations! You have a maxed out team of 3 2* heroes and are now looking to transition into 3* characters.

The plight of 2* players is entirely of their own making, since they obviously should have done some basic research and knew that in order to play the game, they should have had a full 3* roster.
[/sarcasm]

Polarity's guide is still excellent up until the 3* transition. OBW is still the premier 2* support character.

The 3* transition became outdated before the healing change happened, when people who leveled one 3* character (usually Punisher it seems) started saying the new MMR bracketing meant suddenly facing a lot more 494 teams. That was the red flag, not this change.

(I got the sarcasm)

Yeah, im not sure about whether or not this is even a thing. Its hard to tell whether or not the claims of people suddenly facing 141s are a direct result of them having the 3* on their roster, or if having the 141 on their roster allowed them to get consistently higher point totals than before, which is what caused this. I would love to have some concrete stats on this so that i can update the guide accordingly. Im still not 100% convinced that this is whats happening.

I should update my guide with new character rankings, since i dont get why everyone suddenly thinks that obw is horrendous when shes still the best 2* support char in the game. Recon off of two purple matches is her real offensive strength, after all.