5* that desperately need a Rework!

Personally for me the older Caps and Iron Man along side with Old Man Logan really need some rework to their powers, health and ap cost. What other characters should also get the rework treatment?
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Comments

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 6,552 Chairperson of the Boards
    OML was nerfed so he probably wont get any work on him. First Cap also has had a re-work in the past so that might bump him down the list. Iron Man desperately needs something doing to him starting with his red power which needs completely re-working. Ignoring the hopeless cases like Hulk and Wasp:

    Black Widow needs AP adjustments to all her powers.

    I personally feel Doom's black needs a power boost, it should be a more potent attack than it is.

    Would be nice if they removed the cap on Storm's charged tiles for her black power.

    DD & PP:SM probably just need number increases.

    Cable's blue could do with some attention - it would be great if it was made to function a bit like Riri's blue power does.

    Dr. Strange needs health and his non passive yellow power is very expensive, so either make it cheaper or make it worth while.

    Magneto: AoA - Can we just start over with him?
  • jredd
    jredd Posts: 1,382 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'd like to see what would happen if oml and gambit were reverted to their original kits. Would they still be op? They should have a throwback week and do it!
  • Bowgentle
    Bowgentle Posts: 5,401 Chairperson of the Boards
    jredd said:
    I'd like to see what would happen if oml and gambit were reverted to their original kits. Would they still be op? They should have a throwback week and do it!
    OML was already outclassed before his nerf, true heal was his only gimmick.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 7,118 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm not sure why some wants OML to be unnerfed. Maybe it's for nostalgic purpose?

    As for Gambit, he, Chasm and Gargantos is going to enjoy reducing aps to zero.
  • DeNappa
    DeNappa Posts: 1,252 Chairperson of the Boards
    jredd said:
    I'd like to see what would happen if oml and gambit were reverted to their original kits. Would they still be op? They should have a throwback week and do it!
    Gambits old power set was completely broken and would still be now.
  • leviticuschom
    leviticuschom Posts: 38 Just Dropped In
    Surely BCS will do a great with reworks, this has to be one of the most requested services for MPQ and we've weathered since April. Can't wait to hear the frequency at which said reworks occur. My concern is that they may not happen at a quick enough rate - and that today's mediocre 5* characters become outclassed and become the bottom third. Mediocre characters like (5torm, Doom, DD, Yelena, AB, Magneto) never getting the modernizing finesse, stuck with 50K-60K health and low match damage.
  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 681 Critical Contributor
    edited 16 August 2022, 12:15
    A lot of older 5s need reworks.

    I don’t have a lot of older 5s at usable levels, and I think it is almost a waste to put development resources into characters that many people will never have the chance to champion.

    That said if there were ways to target older characters more efficiently I would be all for it.
    4* reworks are more palatable since they are far easier to champ. I still know that many people have better rosters than me and I do hope older characters like both Caps and Iron Man get some love since they are flagship Marvel characters.
  • 9RMetal
    9RMetal Posts: 51 Match Maker
    DAZ0273 said:
    OML was nerfed so he probably wont get any work on him. First Cap also has had a re-work in the past so that might bump him down the list. Iron Man desperately needs something doing to him starting with his red power which needs completely re-working. Ignoring the hopeless cases like Hulk and Wasp:

    Black Widow needs AP adjustments to all her powers.

    I personally feel Doom's black needs a power boost, it should be a more potent attack than it is.

    Would be nice if they removed the cap on Storm's charged tiles for her black power.

    DD & PP:SM probably just need number increases.

    Cable's blue could do with some attention - it would be great if it was made to function a bit like Riri's blue power does.

    Dr. Strange needs health and his non passive yellow power is very expensive, so either make it cheaper or make it worth while.

    Magneto: AoA - Can we just start over with him?
    What was OML old powers like?
    Also yeah, 5* black widow also needs some rework to her health and AP adjusment.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 8,064 Chairperson of the Boards
    the big thing was that his yellow heal power used to work when he was last man standing, and now it only works based on your team mates being alive. There was like a whole thread back when it happened outlining their reasons and what was done. I'm not sure if adjustments were made to anything else but you should be able to forum search it.
  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 560 Critical Contributor
    9RMetal said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    OML was nerfed so he probably wont get any work on him. First Cap also has had a re-work in the past so that might bump him down the list. Iron Man desperately needs something doing to him starting with his red power which needs completely re-working. Ignoring the hopeless cases like Hulk and Wasp:

    Black Widow needs AP adjustments to all her powers.

    I personally feel Doom's black needs a power boost, it should be a more potent attack than it is.

    Would be nice if they removed the cap on Storm's charged tiles for her black power.

    DD & PP:SM probably just need number increases.

    Cable's blue could do with some attention - it would be great if it was made to function a bit like Riri's blue power does.

    Dr. Strange needs health and his non passive yellow power is very expensive, so either make it cheaper or make it worth while.

    Magneto: AoA - Can we just start over with him?
    What was OML old powers like?
    Also yeah, 5* black widow also needs some rework to her health and AP adjusment.
    They reduced the power of his black strike tiles and changed his yellow so it heals less and he no longer heals if he is the last man standing.  Prior to the nerf a low level roster could have an oml with just a cover or 2 in his yellow and black and hide behind oml as a meat shield and then fire his black to be able to just match damage everything to death and oml would heal off all the damage. No need to ever use a health pack.

    They said that something like 50% of all matches in the game were being won with oml on the team.
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 2,032 Chairperson of the Boards
    9RMetal said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    OML was nerfed so he probably wont get any work on him. First Cap also has had a re-work in the past so that might bump him down the list. Iron Man desperately needs something doing to him starting with his red power which needs completely re-working. Ignoring the hopeless cases like Hulk and Wasp:

    Black Widow needs AP adjustments to all her powers.

    I personally feel Doom's black needs a power boost, it should be a more potent attack than it is.

    Would be nice if they removed the cap on Storm's charged tiles for her black power.

    DD & PP:SM probably just need number increases.

    Cable's blue could do with some attention - it would be great if it was made to function a bit like Riri's blue power does.

    Dr. Strange needs health and his non passive yellow power is very expensive, so either make it cheaper or make it worth while.

    Magneto: AoA - Can we just start over with him?
    What was OML old powers like?
    Also yeah, 5* black widow also needs some rework to her health and AP adjusment.
    They reduced the power of his black strike tiles and changed his yellow so it heals less and he no longer heals if he is the last man standing.  Prior to the nerf a low level roster could have an oml with just a cover or 2 in his yellow and black and hide behind oml as a meat shield and then fire his black to be able to just match damage everything to death and oml would heal off all the damage. No need to ever use a health pack.

    They said that something like 50% of all matches in the game were being won with oml on the team.
    Of course at that time there were only something like 10 5* in the whole game and there were no champ levels (so 4* maxed out at 270 and 3* at 166). So yeah having OML Yellow was huge.

    No where near as big a deal now given champion levels and the fact there are 60+ 5* Characters in the game.

    KGB
  • scottee
    scottee Posts: 1,602 Chairperson of the Boards
    And even with not that many 5* characters in the game, pre-nerf OML was still underpowered in 5* land. 
  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 872 Critical Contributor
    I agree with most of those, though I would say that OML has an interesting kit still, and it should be possible to play with his numbers to the point that he isn't the dirt worst at what he does. 

    I wish GE Doom did damage on more than one power. Maybe punish enemy matches on yellow and black with passive chip damage additional to the AP steal and minor health grab he does? or have him steal that health from the enemy that made the match?

    5* Strange's Eye of Agomato feels like it is a guaranteed 3 cover power - maybe have it do something significant even when there are no specials in play, and also remove more than one special per turn, or else just have it come out as a passive? I agree that Flames is too expensive on active.

    Magneto AoA: he definitely seems like he was thought up at the Monday Meeting, but implemented at 5pm on a Friday. You can sort of see the concept they were going for but it just doesn't work at all, particularly not for a character as popular and in-universe powerful as Magneto. you could do a number of things to make this powerset work better, but I think the most immediate thing you could do was enhance the yellow collection capability on his blue and allow him to be doing something meaningful while up in the air, either by having his repeaters continue to tick while he is up there, or the green conversion to yellow continue, or something. It is currently less useful to have blue set to 5 than it is 4. 

    Fi5k: dead on arrival, probably needs a complete rework

    Danver5: useful for 6 weeks, then secretly nerfed. Could be super useful with AoA Magneto if one or both of them were fixed to do anything at all

    Banner Hulk: make it so hulk definitely gets boosted when banner gets boosted, allow AP collection on his auto-matches, at least the cascade matching if not the initial match. Damage pump in hulk form. Fix the bug where killing a last-man-standing hulkform ends the match rather than reverting to banner

    Wa5p: Call the Swarm needs to do like, ALL the damage. like Boss Galactus end the Match type damage. It takes SO much AP to get that to fire off, and then it does 6k? feels like a joke

    Rescue: Seems like Tony's sweetheart should at least have the Team Iron Man affiliation. Since she overlaps his powers 100% you are highly unlikely to run them together which seems a shame. She felt pre-nerfed to not be OP with the power boosters on red, but you would never run her over Apocalypse or even 4* Sabretooth for a multi-hit red. A 5* Iron Person should always be better than a 4* Iron person, but I'd say Riri is probably the best Iron person in the game by far, with Hulkbuster probably next. 

    Silver Surfer has boosted 4* health, and his powers do good 4* damage. Would be nice if that were improved; he has interesting powers and is a charge spammer which is starting to feel interesting again, so it would be cool to dust of the OG 5*

    Abigail Brand: she was a great big nothing at launch. her yellow needs to affect all cds + repeaters in play, or be a passive. Purple needs to do more damage.

    Moon Knight: powers cost too much; you could drop them all by 2ap each and it would still feel expensive to run him

    Ghost Rider: I think the original Hell Ride was superior to the recently re-worked version. Would love to go back to the old one but keep the red/black changes.

    Dr Octopus: I always wanted to play his original kit before his blue and green were changed, but never had the build for it. Now that I am within range of champing him, I imagine he'll sit the bench with the other middling characters. His green when it launched would just hard-win a match, even on wave nodes, and it was very hard to get that to happen (at the time), so I kinda wish it was still weird. and his original blue would auto-move while he was stunned for every tentacle tile you had on the board, which I thought was very novel in the bishop reign of terror days. 


    I had an idea about making IM and Rescue improvements while giving them a little extra something if run together, sort of like how Iron Fist and Luke Cage work... Since their colors are the same, they'd divide them with active/passive pairs of powers. That way the option is there on offense but if run by the AI on defense, it wouldn't necessarily be as strong.

    Anyway, these were the changes I could come up with, but wasn't quite satisfied with numbers on Rescue's passives, then I got busier and dropped it and the whole who would need improving series of polls...

    Iron Man


    The Winning Team
    POWER COST 9 Red
    If we can't work together, we're no better than the bad guys.
    Iron Man deals 23700 damage to the target. This power ignores 33% of enemy Protect tiles strength and reduces enemy damage resistance by 25 (down to zero) for every Avenger on the team. IM is stunned for a turn afterwards, as the suit goes offline to restore the power expended.

    (PASSIVE) Whenever Iron Man becomes active again after a stun, his suit generates 5 Yellow AP for each turn it was offline.

    Girl Friday
    POWER COST 10 Blue
    ("...enemy's strongest non Red color...")

    House Party Protocol
    POWER COST 0 Yellow
    (PASSIVE) At the start of the turn, if there are fewer than 3 on the board, create an 8-turn Yellow Backup Armor Countdown tile that removes an enemy Strike, Attack or Protect tile on enemy's strongest non Red color each turn. While one of these tiles is on the board, enemy powers do 5% less damage per Yellow AP you have (max 75% resistance). Whenever an ally would take damage from enemy powers, one highest count backup armor Countdown is reduced by 1. If Rescue is also on the team, whenever one or more allies are healed during a turn, one lowest count Countdown is increased by 1 at the end of that turn.
    When a Backup Armor Countdown expires, IM drains 6 friendly Yellow AP.


    Rescue


    All Systems Go
    POWER COST 0 Blue
    Pepper Potts takes flight to intercept an enemy missile and hack its navigational systems.
    (PASSIVE) At the start of the turn, Rescue steals 2 enemy Strike, Attack or Protect tiles, but for each of them, makes up to 2 half strength enemy tiles of the same type on adjacent Basic tiles. She then converts a half of all enemy non Red Strike, Attack and Protect tiles to Red tiles. Any special tiles matched or destroyed in a resulting cascade, until the board has settled, count as being removed, and don't deal any damage.

    Your Shield
    POWER COST 8 Yellow
    Rescue stands her ground between danger and the helpless: your ally, your savior, and your shield.
    Rescue converts up to 6 friendly Strike and Attack tiles into Protect tiles, then improves all friendly Protect tiles by 497, gaining 5 times the burst of health for every tile improved (up to a maximum). If there are then fewer than 4 friendly Protect tiles on the board, also create 1 strength 331 Protect tile on each of the colors except for Red.
    (PASSIVE) At the start of her turn, if there are 2 or more friendly Protect tiles on the board, heal Rescue's allies for a burst of 1654 health.

    Do or Die
    POWER COST 0 Red
    Rescue charges into the front lines, blastingback enemy forces with twin repulsor beams.
    (PASSIVE) At the start of the turn, if there are friendly Protect tiles on 4 or more colors, for every 2 colors, Rescue removes 1 tile but each of a different color, and for every tile removed, deals blasts of 5654 damage plus 565 for every Red AP her team has over 10 AP and drains 2 friendly Red AP.
    If Iron Man is on the team, she also converts 2 Basic tiles into Blue tiles with each blast, choosing the target's strongest color if possible.