A cultural discussion on Fan Favorites vs Meta Favorites: What's the deal?

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  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,642 Chairperson of the Boards
    Alternative theory: 

    The devs know that characters like Spider-Man, Cap, Groot, and Iron Man are immensely popular with casual fans and will be big sellers for them regardless of how good the characters actually are in-game. 

    But when it comes to the weird obscure D-list characters, if the character is bad, nobody will buy them at all.  The powergamers only want good characters and don't care how popular they are, and the casuals only want popular characters, and don't care how good they are.  If a character is both unpopular *and* bad, that's a death sentence.
  • TheEyeDoctorsWife
    TheEyeDoctorsWife Posts: 832 Critical Contributor
    MegaBee said:
    TheEyeDoctorsWife said:
    Iron Man has been one of the founding fathers of Marvel. Everyone knew him . In addition to an original Avenger, I read there was a Marvel cartoon series back in the 1960s starring their 5 most popular comic heroes . I think it was Captain America , Hulk, Iron Man , Thor and Sub -Mariner. These saturated the tv media long before the Spider craze of 70s or XMen of 90s.
    I remember that old Marvel cartoon from reruns. There were Spider-Man and Fantastic Four cartoons at approximately the same time, but Spider-Man is the one that really took off. Spider-Man was definitely the most popular Marvel character from the late 60s through at least the late 70s just from the cartoon. The Hulk had a period of popularity from the live-action show. Marvel tried some stuff after that, but nothing matched the X-Men cartoon's marketing juggernaut (pun intended).

    I knew who Iron Man was. You might have known who Iron Man was. People who were into comics knew who Iron Man was. The average person, though? They didn't know who Iron Man was.
    I just remembered, because it’s buried in the archives of our DVD library, but we do have the FanFour cartoons from that era , and also the 1990s they apparently released again .  Looking through the library , who was Stan Lee’s Stripperella? Was she a comic book ? 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,962 Chairperson of the Boards
    entrailbucket said:
    Alternative theory: 

    The devs know that characters like Spider-Man, Cap, Groot, and Iron Man are immensely popular with casual fans and will be big sellers for them regardless of how good the characters actually are in-game. 

    But when it comes to the weird obscure D-list characters, if the character is bad, nobody will buy them at all.  The powergamers only want good characters and don't care how popular they are, and the casuals only want popular characters, and don't care how good they are.  If a character is both unpopular *and* bad, that's a death sentence.
    Okoye is a weird one but Beta Ray Bill is Space Horse Thor - there is no reason why he shouldn't be a meta powerful character.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,962 Chairperson of the Boards
    TheEyeDoctorsWife said:
    MegaBee said:
    TheEyeDoctorsWife said:
    Iron Man has been one of the founding fathers of Marvel. Everyone knew him . In addition to an original Avenger, I read there was a Marvel cartoon series back in the 1960s starring their 5 most popular comic heroes . I think it was Captain America , Hulk, Iron Man , Thor and Sub -Mariner. These saturated the tv media long before the Spider craze of 70s or XMen of 90s.
    I remember that old Marvel cartoon from reruns. There were Spider-Man and Fantastic Four cartoons at approximately the same time, but Spider-Man is the one that really took off. Spider-Man was definitely the most popular Marvel character from the late 60s through at least the late 70s just from the cartoon. The Hulk had a period of popularity from the live-action show. Marvel tried some stuff after that, but nothing matched the X-Men cartoon's marketing juggernaut (pun intended).

    I knew who Iron Man was. You might have known who Iron Man was. People who were into comics knew who Iron Man was. The average person, though? They didn't know who Iron Man was.
    I just remembered, because it’s buried in the archives of our DVD library, but we do have the FanFour cartoons from that era , and also the 1990s they apparently released again .  Looking through the library , who was Stan Lee’s Stripperella? Was she a comic book ? 
    Stripperella was a cartoon from the early 2000s (nothing to do with Marvel) - she was a "stripper by day and super hero by night" and was voiced by Pamela Anderson. Stan Lee came up with the concept but probably not much else but it got a whole season and even featured Mark Hamill!

    The 90s FF cartoon was a new incarnation and restored the Human Torch to the line up after he got chucked for HERBIE - that was OK although not quite Spidey or X-Men quality. The Iron Man cartoon in the 90s was horrible and based upon the Force Works team of Avengers from that era. The Hulk 90s cartoon was pretty good though.
  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 7,642 Chairperson of the Boards
    acescracked said:
    entrailbucket said:
    So, the theory is that MPQ is involved in a secret plan to reboot the Marvel universe by massively increasing the popularity of Beta Ray Bill and Polaris?
    I'm not sure we get your point. I'll re-read the other 55 posts where you keep making the same point and try and figure it out. That poor horse.... 😄
    Be fair, it's like *way* more than 55.

    In this case the original question was about "fan favorites" vs "meta favorites" and why the second option always seems to win out in the polls. 

    There are a lot of players at lower tiers who just want to use characters they like or are familiar with, and every "fan favorite" poll seems to only focus on the powergamers' picks. 

    People seemed to be saying that the casual players' favorites are also characters like Okoye and Polaris, but I don't think that's true.  I have a feeling the powergamer crowd is just overrepresented in the polling.
  • TheEyeDoctorsWife
    TheEyeDoctorsWife Posts: 832 Critical Contributor
    DAZ0273 said:
    TheEyeDoctorsWife said:
    MegaBee said:
    TheEyeDoctorsWife said:
    Iron Man has been one of the founding fathers of Marvel. Everyone knew him . In addition to an original Avenger, I read there was a Marvel cartoon series back in the 1960s starring their 5 most popular comic heroes . I think it was Captain America , Hulk, Iron Man , Thor and Sub -Mariner. These saturated the tv media long before the Spider craze of 70s or XMen of 90s.
    I remember that old Marvel cartoon from reruns. There were Spider-Man and Fantastic Four cartoons at approximately the same time, but Spider-Man is the one that really took off. Spider-Man was definitely the most popular Marvel character from the late 60s through at least the late 70s just from the cartoon. The Hulk had a period of popularity from the live-action show. Marvel tried some stuff after that, but nothing matched the X-Men cartoon's marketing juggernaut (pun intended).

    I knew who Iron Man was. You might have known who Iron Man was. People who were into comics knew who Iron Man was. The average person, though? They didn't know who Iron Man was.
    I just remembered, because it’s buried in the archives of our DVD library, but we do have the FanFour cartoons from that era , and also the 1990s they apparently released again .  Looking through the library , who was Stan Lee’s Stripperella? Was she a comic book ? 
    Stripperella was a cartoon from the early 2000s (nothing to do with Marvel) - she was a "stripper by day and super hero by night" and was voiced by Pamela Anderson. Stan Lee came up with the concept but probably not much else but it got a whole season and even featured Mark Hamill!

    The 90s FF cartoon was a new incarnation and restored the Human Torch to the line up after he got chucked for HERBIE - that was OK although not quite Spidey or X-Men quality. The Iron Man cartoon in the 90s was horrible and based upon the Force Works team of Avengers from that era. The Hulk 90s cartoon was pretty good though.
    I remember now the Force Works Iron Man but didn’t watch it because I was not familiar with any of his team . Wasn’t it Spider Woman and some old guy with a staff ? It was very disappointing after catching 1 episode 
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,962 Chairperson of the Boards
    entrailbucket said:
    acescracked said:
    entrailbucket said:
    So, the theory is that MPQ is involved in a secret plan to reboot the Marvel universe by massively increasing the popularity of Beta Ray Bill and Polaris?
    I'm not sure we get your point. I'll re-read the other 55 posts where you keep making the same point and try and figure it out. That poor horse.... 😄
    Be fair, it's like *way* more than 55.

    In this case the original question was about "fan favorites" vs "meta favorites" and why the second option always seems to win out in the polls. 

    There are a lot of players at lower tiers who just want to use characters they like or are familiar with, and every "fan favorite" poll seems to only focus on the powergamers' picks. 

    People seemed to be saying that the casual players' favorites are also characters like Okoye and Polaris, but I don't think that's true.  I have a feeling the powergamer crowd is just overrepresented in the polling.
    A lot of it will depend on how those casual players connect with Marvel. If you are a fan of Black Panther then Okoye could easily be your favourite for both reasons. Of course these polls are also going to be mostly of interest to avid players of the game which probably skews them towards meta but we don't know the numbers so we can't make blanket statements.

    Do you think Iron Man would have still been a movie hit if he had his nose faceplate? Now I want that armour in game as costume!
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 11,962 Chairperson of the Boards
    TheEyeDoctorsWife said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    TheEyeDoctorsWife said:
    MegaBee said:
    TheEyeDoctorsWife said:
    Iron Man has been one of the founding fathers of Marvel. Everyone knew him . In addition to an original Avenger, I read there was a Marvel cartoon series back in the 1960s starring their 5 most popular comic heroes . I think it was Captain America , Hulk, Iron Man , Thor and Sub -Mariner. These saturated the tv media long before the Spider craze of 70s or XMen of 90s.
    I remember that old Marvel cartoon from reruns. There were Spider-Man and Fantastic Four cartoons at approximately the same time, but Spider-Man is the one that really took off. Spider-Man was definitely the most popular Marvel character from the late 60s through at least the late 70s just from the cartoon. The Hulk had a period of popularity from the live-action show. Marvel tried some stuff after that, but nothing matched the X-Men cartoon's marketing juggernaut (pun intended).

    I knew who Iron Man was. You might have known who Iron Man was. People who were into comics knew who Iron Man was. The average person, though? They didn't know who Iron Man was.
    I just remembered, because it’s buried in the archives of our DVD library, but we do have the FanFour cartoons from that era , and also the 1990s they apparently released again .  Looking through the library , who was Stan Lee’s Stripperella? Was she a comic book ? 
    Stripperella was a cartoon from the early 2000s (nothing to do with Marvel) - she was a "stripper by day and super hero by night" and was voiced by Pamela Anderson. Stan Lee came up with the concept but probably not much else but it got a whole season and even featured Mark Hamill!

    The 90s FF cartoon was a new incarnation and restored the Human Torch to the line up after he got chucked for HERBIE - that was OK although not quite Spidey or X-Men quality. The Iron Man cartoon in the 90s was horrible and based upon the Force Works team of Avengers from that era. The Hulk 90s cartoon was pretty good though.
    I remember now the Force Works Iron Man but didn’t watch it because I was not familiar with any of his team . Wasn’t it Spider Woman and some old guy with a staff ? It was very disappointing after catching 1 episode 
    Yup. It was bad as was the terrible Avengers cartoon with Hank Pym as the leader.
  • Omegased
    Omegased Posts: 651 Critical Contributor
    it's easy to forget other players in the game.

    for example, X-Force Wolverine is one of the most used 4-star characters. that's because you get him early in the daily rewards. while he sucks at high-level 4star rosters. I would hazard that's the same for Dr. Strange.

    I'd love to see the "active players" vs "active forum users" because I don't think they overlap.

    either way - i think the leaked fan favourite store is a good one! I won't be pulling as they're all champed sufficiently, but this would be a HUGE boon for people breaking into 5star land as all 3 have their own usages.
  • Akoni
    Akoni Posts: 790 Critical Contributor
    MegaBee said:
    Tony_Foot said:
    Iron man wasn’t popular at all was he, well until his film. Wasn’t he d list? You have to start somewhere! 
    I'd be willing to bet that most people didn't know who the heck Iron Man was before the movie. Marvel's powerhouses were Spider-Man and the X-Men.
    Iron Man was my favorite Marvel character prior to the movie so I guess he had at least one fan.
  • TheRiddler
    TheRiddler Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    Akoni said:
    MegaBee said:
    Tony_Foot said:
    Iron man wasn’t popular at all was he, well until his film. Wasn’t he d list? You have to start somewhere! 
    I'd be willing to bet that most people didn't know who the heck Iron Man was before the movie. Marvel's powerhouses were Spider-Man and the X-Men.
    Iron Man was my favorite Marvel character prior to the movie so I guess he had at least one fan.

    I had a friend in school and a cousin who aside from some odd balls only collected Iron Man comics.
    I collected Iron Man, Spider-Man and X-Men (from Marvel anyways).
    But that was also in the 80s and 90s and people were actually buying comics.
  • acescracked
    acescracked Posts: 1,197 Chairperson of the Boards
    entrailbucket said:
    acescracked said:
    entrailbucket said:
    So, the theory is that MPQ is involved in a secret plan to reboot the Marvel universe by massively increasing the popularity of Beta Ray Bill and Polaris?
    I'm not sure we get your point. I'll re-read the other 55 posts where you keep making the same point and try and figure it out. That poor horse.... 😄
    Be fair, it's like *way* more than 55.

    In this case the original question was about "fan favorites" vs "meta favorites" and why the second option always seems to win out in the polls. 

    There are a lot of players at lower tiers who just want to use characters they like or are familiar with, and every "fan favorite" poll seems to only focus on the powergamers' picks. 

    People seemed to be saying that the casual players' favorites are also characters like Okoye and Polaris, but I don't think that's true.  I have a feeling the powergamer crowd is just overrepresented in the polling.

    I just pulled that number from my booty, hah!

    You're correct for sure on all that. A huge portion (90%?) of the playerbase aren't interested in speed clearing cl10 pve.

    I was just browsing thru this thread sitting on my fave seat and could pick out each of your posts without looking at the name. 😆
  • Jimsta_rooney
    Jimsta_rooney Posts: 167 Tile Toppler
    entrailbucket said:
    acescracked said:
    entrailbucket said:
    So, the theory is that MPQ is involved in a secret plan to reboot the Marvel universe by massively increasing the popularity of Beta Ray Bill and Polaris?
    I'm not sure we get your point. I'll re-read the other 55 posts where you keep making the same point and try and figure it out. That poor horse.... 😄
    Be fair, it's like *way* more than 55.

    In this case the original question was about "fan favorites" vs "meta favorites" and why the second option always seems to win out in the polls. 

    There are a lot of players at lower tiers who just want to use characters they like or are familiar with, and every "fan favorite" poll seems to only focus on the powergamers' picks. 

    People seemed to be saying that the casual players' favorites are also characters like Okoye and Polaris, but I don't think that's true.  I have a feeling the powergamer crowd is just overrepresented in the polling.
    If this was true the rumoured store would look a lot different. 
    Only one of them would make it. 
    Not one of the summer store would make it either. 
  • Srheer0
    Srheer0 Posts: 510 Critical Contributor
    Let's see. There's what 60 5stars in the game now?  

    And they typically only feature 3 of them in a special store.  

    It's almost impossible to please everyone. Maybe one day they will do a "create your vault" where you can pick 3 5s you want.

    Seeing as D3 refused to go the route of rebalancing the non meta 5s (Banner, Ironman, etc etc) Maybe they could leave the weaker 5s in classic legends and put the newer ones in a meta legends store. so it would be okoye, iHulk, Colossus, Wanda etc. 
  • Ptahhotep
    Ptahhotep Posts: 464 Mover and Shaker

    With the increase in numbers of both four and five star characters the classic store is becoming more diluted. Perhaps it is time to offset that dilution by reducing the cost of a cover to 15 cp.
  • tupacboy
    tupacboy Posts: 131 Tile Toppler
    Ptahhotep said:

    With the increase in numbers of both four and five star characters the classic store is becoming more diluted. Perhaps it is time to offset that dilution by reducing the cost of a cover to 15 cp.
    I think 10 makes more sense... You do scl 10 and get 3 chances of which you get 1/7 chance of getting 1/61  5 star....  Trying to get the one you want is abysmal

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