SnowcaTT said: Borstock said: I see Hulkpocalypse and Beta Ray Hulk, too. Okoye, on the other hand, disappears without Hulk because she is too slow otherwise. Hulk absolutely is the problem, not Okoye. Okoye disappears without Hulk?So all these people who have Okoye 30+, often 50+ levels higher than the next character....they simply go down to small 5* instead of their 5xx monster that buffs basically any character?Do realize Thor -only- went away when Hulk came into play: because you can't play half-life thor vs an every-turn aoe! Hulk goes away and it's not "Okoye disappears", it's "all the fat okoyes start using PX or Thor or [next thing]" instead.Okoye goes away and hulk is used with....Apoc, and maybe Thanos. That's about it, and you won't see them often, and you can play around those 'issues' much easier.Okoye is the problem, not Hulk. History has shown it.
Borstock said: I see Hulkpocalypse and Beta Ray Hulk, too. Okoye, on the other hand, disappears without Hulk because she is too slow otherwise. Hulk absolutely is the problem, not Okoye.
Theghouse said: An elegant solution I saw suggested by someone in one of the myriad of other threads about this was to make Hulk's team damage read like "destroys 2 green tiles, dealing xxx damage to the enemy team for each destroyed tile". This preserves his existing power set, but the mechanic is now tied to matching/tile destruction and is outside the unwritten rules of the boostable power scope.
jredd said: SnowcaTT said: Borstock said: I see Hulkpocalypse and Beta Ray Hulk, too. Okoye, on the other hand, disappears without Hulk because she is too slow otherwise. Hulk absolutely is the problem, not Okoye. Okoye disappears without Hulk?So all these people who have Okoye 30+, often 50+ levels higher than the next character....they simply go down to small 5* instead of their 5xx monster that buffs basically any character?Do realize Thor -only- went away when Hulk came into play: because you can't play half-life thor vs an every-turn aoe! Hulk goes away and it's not "Okoye disappears", it's "all the fat okoyes start using PX or Thor or [next thing]" instead.Okoye goes away and hulk is used with....Apoc, and maybe Thanos. That's about it, and you won't see them often, and you can play around those 'issues' much easier.Okoye is the problem, not Hulk. History has shown it. okoye wasn't a problem until ihulk came around. okoye is a puff on defence. when was an okoye team hard to beat? historically? i'll wait...
Captain_Carlman said: I'm nowhere near playing in the meta, but I've been playing since practically the beginning and I've seen enough to know nerfs just end up slaughtering a character rather than "balancing" them. Given that the devs will let broken characters go for months or YEARS without a fix and what should be constant rebalancing seems to be out of the question, hard counters are likely the way to go. The only problem seems to be most of the "broken" abilities stem from passives. When an attempt to counter the problem ability is made as an active power, you didn't really "fix" anything. This is especially true on passive powers that hit the ground running on turn 1. To counter a strong passive, you need another strong passive. An active power counter isn't going to do anyone any good when that character is wasted by the passive on turn 3 or 4. Maybe what we need is an "Anti-5trange" (Dormammu?) that passively deals damage/stuns/reduces damage when passives on the opposite side go off? I have no idea how you can mechanically make this work in the game engine (can you imagine how much of a mess this character's PVP event would be?), but it would give characters with only active powers (Havok, for instance) a chance to shine and be their "counter".
SnowcaTT said: jredd said: SnowcaTT said: Borstock said: I see Hulkpocalypse and Beta Ray Hulk, too. Okoye, on the other hand, disappears without Hulk because she is too slow otherwise. Hulk absolutely is the problem, not Okoye. Okoye disappears without Hulk?So all these people who have Okoye 30+, often 50+ levels higher than the next character....they simply go down to small 5* instead of their 5xx monster that buffs basically any character?Do realize Thor -only- went away when Hulk came into play: because you can't play half-life thor vs an every-turn aoe! Hulk goes away and it's not "Okoye disappears", it's "all the fat okoyes start using PX or Thor or [next thing]" instead.Okoye goes away and hulk is used with....Apoc, and maybe Thanos. That's about it, and you won't see them often, and you can play around those 'issues' much easier.Okoye is the problem, not Hulk. History has shown it. okoye wasn't a problem until ihulk came around. okoye is a puff on defence. when was an okoye team hard to beat? historically? i'll wait... Really, really big Okoye/Thor (which several chased) was not 'easy' with tiny versions. The difference you are forgetting is all the time that's passed since Thorkoye faded, and all the Okoye vaults in the meantime. Everyone and their brother's dog seems to have 500+ Okoye now. Okoye/PX is a huge pain. And let's look at the reasons why. PX decreases damage done to himself, so it's better to take out Okoye first. But hitting Okoye doesn't give TU drain. And Okoye can heal herself, making her stick around even longer.People are complaining because...oh right, the same reason.So the problem isn't 'hulk is hard and hits too hard!' - because if that was the problem, we'd see hulk paired with other people. That doesn't happen.The problem is 'Okoye sticks around too long because of true heal, hits too hard because TU doesn't drain, and the TU scales too much with high levels....which everyone has now with all the Okoye vaults'So - what follows is you should fix the Real Problem rather than the 'current hotness'. Because if you don't fix those problems - you'll see all those 500+ Okoyes abusing other characters instead of ihulk - and all future characters that work with her boosts. Future-proof Okoye by fixing her now, or we'll have these same debates down the road.Okoye is a helper-boost character. She does very little on her own. In that way, she is like Hood or Polaris...which you TARGET FIRST. In shooters: target the medic first. In RPG's: get that buff character off the board. The reason Okoye isn't being targeted first is because she is both boosting and becoming harder to kill than the 'real' threat - these are things that can be changed.Make Wakanda Forever unconditional, not "if Okoye is not in front" : "At the start of each turn, destroy 1 friendly Team-Up AP". One problem solved - the super-high TU AP 'problem' diminishes, The problem of being 'forced' to hit Okoye first in certain match-ups (keeping her in front) goes away. Make Wakanda Forever limit TU boost to six, or start at "every TU after 4" so it's not immediate and not massive. This eliminates the super-high TU ap problem....which is exacerbated when Okoye is at high levels (maybe make it not scale at all after 450).Make Indomitable Spirit not true heal and restore a specific amount of health rather than based on TU. The problem of Okoye healing too much goes away, the problem of her sticking around forever (because of all the huge versions) goes away, the 'problem' of players playing indefinitely and never needing health packs goes away.