PiMacleod said: Okoye and TU usage/denial.Maybe i'm wrong, but what i gathered from his post is that there are barely any characters in the game that use Team Up AP like Okoye does... And for those that do (like 5* BP or Coulson), its not nearly as effective as Okoye's usage. I mean... She doesnt even SPEND the AP to do what she does, but these others do.
SnowcaTT said: Daredevil217 said: I’m curious if IHulk were not a thing would we see Okoye everywhere? I highly doubt it. She’s way too easy to dispose of (you know... without free unchecked passive AOE damage from a character who cannot die until all others are disposed of). iHulk -is- a thing and you see almost no Apocalypse iHulk. That's because you can play around Apoc yellow.iHulk isn't the problem. If ihulk was the problem people would be hoarding for big ihulks in vaults. It's that Okoye boosts him from the very get-go: just like trying to prevent BRB from getting blue (when the D tiles being destroyed give it blue) it's almost impossible to prevent match-4's giving Okoye a little bit of TU. Add the ability to give +2 TU to start when you are using it offensively....or +4, if you're one of those...and that Okoye yellow ability adds to the TU 'problem'.... iHulk doing damage 'for free' every turn makes him the current 'best' for the Okoye boost. But it's not iHulk that's the problem - it's that Okoye boost, and that it scales with Okoye level.
Daredevil217 said: I’m curious if IHulk were not a thing would we see Okoye everywhere? I highly doubt it. She’s way too easy to dispose of (you know... without free unchecked passive AOE damage from a character who cannot die until all others are disposed of).
fight4thedream said: sinnerjfl said: You can be against nerfs and whatnot but there are limits. iHulk needs a nerf, he has too many upsides and nearly zero disadvantage to use. They made him too good, they need to fix it ASAP. Counters like Sighclops (lol) or Magneto (lol) are just not working. I find this statement disingenuous. To start off, I think it's worthwhile to compare iHulk to Okoye:The Immortal HulkPros:+ Passive AoE damage tied to board condition+ Best single hit nuke in game+ high match damage that gets stronger after each reviving + ability to revive means he must be taken out last+ generates green AP to help trigger passive+ high defensive deterrent, especially when paired with a boosterCons:- low health pool- takes self damage for each match he tanks (with the exception of match ending hit)- takes high self damage when he uses red (with the exception of match ending hit)- does significant damage to teammates when revived- high maintenance cost- random green AP generation double edge sword (sometimes spawns in undesirable location)- isn't ideal for one-on-one type battlesIdeal set up:*team with a power booster (Okoye/Apocalypse)* pair with a team that tanks as many colors for him as possible (current solution: keep at a low level)OkoyePros:+ good self-synergy+ decent health pool + one of the best boosts in the game+ one of the best self heal abilities in game+ generates TUs to build her boost+ strong red nuke that has strategic use+ pairs well with a plethora of characters in all tiers+ her limiting factor is easily bypassed by leveling her up as much as possible (and keeping her partner at an appropriate low level)+ has match damage boost on TUs+ player has immediate access to boost if TU boosts are used before match+ TU generation ability also facilitates the use of Team Ups in battle (ie: bringing a 3* Loki black TU against BRB teams, MBW stun ability)Cons:-low defensive deterrent, unless paired with passive damage or cheap, multi hit abilities- burns own TUs if not at front- isn't ideal for one-on-one type battlesIdeal set up:*Benefits from having high levels to tank as many colors as possible*Best partnered with a high offensive type character with passive or cheap, multi hit abilities I think it's clear that between the two, Okoye is the more versatile and player friendly character. She heals and speeds up matches. This isn't her first time at the top of the meta; if iHulk were to be nerfed, people would simply go back to using Okoye/Thor. Despite the claims that she is easily beatable on defense, her ability set is easily exploitable by any character with a strong, efficient offensive skill, meaning down the road when they inevitably release such a character, she will once again feature prominently in the meta (barring lack of synergy or introduction of a hard counter) and people will again demand that the new character be nerfed.It is for this exact reason why I was against the Bishop nerf. The only real way to shut down players who exploit her passive boost is by basically ensuring either she or her partner get stunned within the first couple of turns. I understand there were problems and legitimate concerns with Bishop, but his original stun skill set was the closest we had to a hard Okoye counter. Yes, Onslaught has a decent counter but lacks offensive power and is limited in who he pairs well with.Obviously the problem at the time was there weren't enough strong counters to Bishop; now we currently have Apocalypse and Cyclops with stun immunity. Cyclops/Bishop would have actually been a decent counter to iHulk teams. We needed Cyclops a year ago, not now when stunning is a non-issue in the 5* tier.While it's a moot point now, I imagine the meta would have been more diverse had they left Bishop as is. Suffice to say that the current meta has reached a point of hyper offensive combos and can only reasonably be countered by the hyper defensive mechanics of BRB/Kitty. For a stun mechanic to work effectively in the current meta environment, it would have to be reliable, long lasting and passive/very cheap. However, considering the player base's distaste for a stun meta, it would probably be more fruitful to consider other avenues such as tile spamming a la Valkyrie's The Best Defense or as many have offered up an AoE damage reduction ability like Quake's Coordinated Tactics. I personally would like to see effective counter measures against Okoye's skill set otherwise we will end up in a similar situation again somewhere down the road.
sinnerjfl said: You can be against nerfs and whatnot but there are limits. iHulk needs a nerf, he has too many upsides and nearly zero disadvantage to use. They made him too good, they need to fix it ASAP. Counters like Sighclops (lol) or Magneto (lol) are just not working.
abenness said: I shudder to think of the pvp landscape if iHulk was more available.
Bad said: Reminding apocalypse (another time):-Firing SS on turn 2 means using all boosters and matching 3 yellow(perfectly could happen there is no matching)-ihulk will be boosted on turn 3 as he uses his passive at the start of turn-the boosting of SS is capped to the apocalypse level. It uses to be 9000 damage, if level 500 about 11000( okoye cannot stop laughing after reading that)-after boosting 2 turns posibly the board will be filled with repeaters and protects.After boosting 4 turns Ihulk wont posibly do nothing.So please, give me an apocalypse meta. It will mean no more characters with instakill TU.Okoye can be nerfed/rebalanced for earning her boosting with a bit of workout, like all her fellows characters appearing in this game do.And I would call that fairness.
ammenell said: it's all MMRs fault.I have my highest 5*s (okoye, apoc, kitty) all softcapped at 400.one in ten matches I see ihulkoye - i see way more polgritty, brbritty and saberalis, doesn't matter if it's regular pvp or shield sim.ihulkoye isn't a problem for me - not because i regularly beat that team, but because I see a diverse mix of teams in 4*/5* land and skipping is a thing.
akboyce said: We all know they don't want to nerf Okoye because of the compensation. MAYBE they could get around it by nerfing how "damage from friendly powers is increased" works. When used with an AOE you are not boosting by X you are boosting by 3x X or 2x X if they have 3 or 2 characters left. If instead the damage boost was divided amongst the targets you would cut her damage bonus by 1/3 or 1/2 for AOEs while maintaining her power as is for single targets. So if her bonus damage was 1000, instead of doing 1000 extra to each enemy with an AOE it would only do 333/334 extra damage to each enemy if they had 3 opponents and 500 extra damage if they had 2 opponents.Could go either way for multi hit attacks as well. Less people seem to have an issue with the bonus on single target attacks. Its the multiplicative nature on AOEs. Sadly Apoc gets caught in this but I think its a reasonable change. If you combined that change with a new 5 star that had a scaled version of Quakes passive for mitigating AOE damage I think we might actually see a shift away from the AOE dominance.