Activated abilities

critmancritman Posts: 312 Mover and Shaker
Hello! Today I'd like to talk to you about Tormod's Crypt. Here's our version and the paper version for comparison:


You'll notice a key difference between our PQ version and the paper version: The paper version is an activated ability, so you get to choose exactly when the effect triggers... but the PQ version does not allow you to do this. Because PQ has no activated abilities on permanents, the effect has been altered to trigger when the support is destroyed, and so you actually get very little control over when it triggers. This is a pretty clumsy bit of design.

But wait!!

This isn't true any more, is it? In the past, MTGPQ had no activated abilities, but what's this I see??!!


It's an activated ability! MTPGQ does actually have activated abilities now, we just didn't notice because they were introduced all bundled up with Vanguard cards!

It'll be pretty cool to see different types of permanents gain activated abilities in MTGPQ in the future, just like their paper counterparts! No more converting tap costs in paper into activated gems (ugh!) or uncontrollable triggers (double ugh!). It'll take a while to integrate this into the game, I'm sure, but we have proof of concept now. Whole vistas of design space previously unaccessable to us have been opened up! The future is bright :blush:



....

.......

(or they could just have made Tormod's Crypt a spell.... I guess... jus' sayin'...)

Comments

  • Bubbles_CSBubbles_CS Posts: 150 Tile Toppler
    @critman Activated abilities on an artifact with a sacrifice cost have historically been implemented in this way. Lotus Petal is a good example.

    I personally feel this is a fine implementation, although board placement can sometimes make it difficult to trigger. “Real” activated abilities are getting closer to reality in MtGPQ, I think, but we aren’t there yet. Right now Grim Lavamancer seems to be a good representation of an activated ability today. Although I think it is difficult to understand what “Activate 2 2-turn Red” means without seeing it in action, in practice this is a good implementation that gets around the board placement problem (plus you can’t match a creature, but artifacts could produce one of these timed board triggers).

    Speaking of triggers, the end of turn triggered abilities also in Torment are a nice innovation but requires a yes / no choice every turn, which isn’t ideal.
  • madwrenmadwren Posts: 2,003 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don't understand why Tormod's Crypt has 2 shields instead of 1. 
  • critmancritman Posts: 312 Mover and Shaker
    @critman Activated abilities on an artifact with a sacrifice cost have historically been implemented in this way. Lotus Petal is a good example.
    https://www.zenconomics.com/the-parable-of-the-monkeys-in-the-cage

    tl;dr: just because cards have been implemented like this in the past, doesn't mean they should be in the future.

    Like, the only reason they were implemented that way is because we didn't have activated abilities.

    I'm aware of the history of the game, I know this account looks pretty shiny and new, but that's just because they keep banning me so I have to make new ones. I've been on the forums a loooong time :)
  • jtwoodjtwood Posts: 736 Critical Contributor
    critman said:

    tl;dr: just because cards have been implemented like this in the past, doesn't mean they should be in the future.

    I'm aware of the history of the game, I know this account looks pretty shiny and new, but that's just because they keep banning me so I have to make new ones. I've been on the forums a loooong time :)
    I feel like there's a good joke here about "just because you got to post here in the past doesn't mean you should be able to in the future" but I can't think of it right now. Maybe someone else will...
  • Mburn7Mburn7 Posts: 3,309 Chairperson of the Boards
    I don't get why they didn't just make it an activate gem.  The "when this is destroyed" supports have almost always sucked due to the variable nature of where they go and how much it hurts to reinforce them.
    I assume they don't give non-vanguards activated abilities because it would make Greg's head explode and matches would never finish (unrelated, did they ever fix that vanguard lag when Greg can't/shouldn't activate the ability of one he has out?)

  • critmancritman Posts: 312 Mover and Shaker
    Mburn7 said:
    I don't get why they didn't just make it an activate gem.  The "when this is destroyed" supports have almost always sucked due to the variable nature of where they go and how much it hurts to reinforce them.
    Or a spell. Don't forget it could have been made a spell. Paper MTG Artifacts have been made into MTGPQ spells before.

    This is not an ability that you want to have any variability in when it triggers; it's laser focused and probably has zero effect on the average game that you play. If it's a spell, you get perfect control over when it 'triggers' or not... you either cast it or you don't.

    I guess I'm making two different points with this thread, one of which is 'Isn't it great that we now have activated abilities in the game', and the other is 'Oktagon need to think harder about how they implement cards' (or, perhaps, have theorists like us, the forum members, think harder about it for them, and learn from the discussions we have!)
  • andrewvanmarleandrewvanmarle Posts: 763 Critical Contributor
    edited 4 August 2020, 09:57
    critman said:


    I'm aware of the history of the game, I know this account looks pretty shiny and new, but that's just because they keep banning me so I have to make new ones. I've been on the forums a loooong time :)
    I do think that you've mellowed a bit in your current incarnation. ;)

    Oh been meaning to ask. I kinda think i recognise the guy on your avatar pick, who is it?
  • critmancritman Posts: 312 Mover and Shaker
    critman said:

    I'm aware of the history of the game, I know this account looks pretty shiny and new, but that's just because they keep banning me so I have to make new ones. I've been on the forums a loooong time :)
    I do think that you've mellowed a bit in your current incarnation. ;)

    Oh been meaning to ask. I kinda think i recognise the guy on your avatar pick, who is it?
    It's Will Poulter as Colin Ritman (critman!) from Bandersnatch, the interactive Black Mirror episode on Netflix.

    Apparently he copped a lot of hate for this role but I thought he was great :)
  • andrewvanmarleandrewvanmarle Posts: 763 Critical Contributor
    Ahhhhh, now I know! I haven't seen the episode but I did see the promo. 

    Hence the imperfect memory
  • jtwoodjtwood Posts: 736 Critical Contributor
    critman said:


    Apparently he copped a lot of hate for this role but I thought he was great :)
    Really? That's odd. I thought he was insanely memorable. I knew exactly who it was as soon as I saw the avatar the first time.

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