Is apocalypse a character that benefits from as many levels as possible?

VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 5,060 Chairperson of the Boards
edited 26 July 2020, 15:34 in MPQ General Discussion
As I am trying to decide how to deploy my LT pulls before KM enters the pool, I am wondering what my overall strategy should be for apocalypse.  Yelena is currently sitting at 1/3/5 + 1k shards.  champing her would be nice as she seems to have some real value as an ap suppressor in cl10 (or boss events), and might even become PVP viable if they ever fix her purple or if an ideal partner comes out.  But my apocalypse is already at 12 covers and will be fully covered with shards before he leaves the LT pool.  Onslaught does not particularly interest me and I am unlikely to chase him.  KM does seem a bit more interesting to me, but I likely still have time to grind PVE and PVP to cover him if that seems worthwhile. 
Is apocalypse a character that rewards soft-capping (e.g., so that other 5*s can tank for him but you can still use his strong offensive abilities)?  or is he more like okoye where every additional champ level is worthwhile?  I am not quite sure how to treat him. His high health is clearly part of his appeal, but his high match damage will make him tank an awful lot, and means that soft-capping him below older 5*s would also mean significantly lowering his damage output.  On the other other hand, he doesn't have any healing (or even much defense as the main point of his protect tiles is to fuel his black), so hiding behind some other 5* like okoye will definitely save on healthpacks. 

Comments

  • DogfaceDogface Posts: 714 Critical Contributor
    You ask and answer in your own post  :)
  • bluewolfbluewolf Posts: 4,910 Chairperson of the Boards
    More Apocalypse = better. 

    Thor/BRB/Apoc is a legit PVE team.  And while he’s not meta in PvP, he’s a great tool on offense. 
  • BorstockBorstock Posts: 1,422 Chairperson of the Boards
    He's too slow in PvE for me.
    In PvP, his main value is his stun immunity combined with the high health. It makes everything else he does dangerous. The higher the health, the more dangerous he gets.
    So, I would argue the answer is yes. The more levels are important on Apoc.
  • PiMacleodPiMacleod Posts: 850 Critical Contributor
    I agree about him being slow on PvE.  Mine isn't champed, though... but 11 covers gave me a good view, I believe.
  • BriMan2222BriMan2222 Posts: 206 Tile Toppler
    PiMacleod said:
    I agree about him being slow on PvE.  Mine isn't champed, though... but 11 covers gave me a good view, I believe.
    Half health thor and apocolypse is one of my fastest pve teams, hulkoye might be a tad faster. 
  • PolaresPolares Posts: 2,505 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited 28 July 2020, 14:19
    As some other have said Apoc/Thor/BRB is a very good PvE team (also Apoc/Thor), and in those teams you want him in front. You also want his yellow to add as much damage as possible so, I think apoc the more levels the better.

    Said that, If you already have Okoye, then Okoye/Thor is still a better option. Most of the time I just use Apoc if he is buffed (then he is fricking amazing). In some very hard cl10 nodes I have actually brought Okoye/Thor/Apoc instead of SB, as sometimes SB is very easily killed (mine is just 280 level), and Apoc/s red can also do the same damage as SB red (for one more AP though). Also if you are unlucky and Okoye is killed having Apoc can help you still win the match. But in general, if you have Okoye, you will not use him in PvE.

    If you use him in PvP then it is going to be with Thor, BRB or with a mutant. In all those cases you want as many covers as possible, as you want him in front. But again, if you have Okoye, you wont probably use him.

    Then you need to consider that Apoc is amazing, but it does some things that other 5s already do so he is a great char, but I would not call him meta right now, so you could just champ him and stop there and save the CPs for the next great 5 as you wont use him as much as Okoye or Kitty.

    I myself I am going to finish with a 453-454 Apoc when he leaves Latest as I already have Okoye (I pulled just a little bit more to make sure I could get Yelena to 5 red with shards) and I prefer to save as much CPs as possible to wait for the next great 5
  • wymtimewymtime Posts: 3,472 Chairperson of the Boards
    here is the comparison of Apoc level471/BRB451/Thor to Okoye 462, 5ice478, Thor.

    With Apoc having his yellow out damage numbers
    red 4 hits of 15154 total 60,616.  Black 4 hits of 22527 for a total of 86108.
    BRB green 4 hits of 18767 total 75068.  These numbers can do huge damage and you can generate that AP rather easily.

    okoye 5 Ice combo.  Ice green 5 repeaters at 3472 or 17360.  With Okoye with 10 TU tiles 5x14962 total 74810. AOE would be 14,362.
    20 TU AP 5X 26,452 total 132,260 AOE 25,852.  30 AP 5X 37,942 total 189,710.  AOE 37,340. Okoye red 8272 +1149 for each TU AP but the real benefit is being able to destroy 5Ice tiles

    thr big difference is how long will it take to generate enough TU tiles for Okoye to overtake Apocalypse in damage.  In challenge nodes I do feel Okoye is better because she can self heal and it helps generate TU.  In hard nodes in PVE Apocalypse has been faster since there just isn’t as much health to eat through. Also Apocalypse black when destroying protect tiles will trigger BRB to generate AP.

    both are really good teams but on hard nodes since Apocalypse can fire his yellow and red so fast he can be really fast.  Also his red avoids protect tiles.

  • BorstockBorstock Posts: 1,422 Chairperson of the Boards
    PiMacleod said:
    I agree about him being slow on PvE.  Mine isn't champed, though... but 11 covers gave me a good view, I believe.
    Half health thor and apocolypse is one of my fastest pve teams, hulkoye might be a tad faster. 

    My fastest team remains Hulkoye + Thanos (I use the 3* version, so I don't have to use as many healthpacks). But I play SCL9. Probably not as viable in SCL10.
  • ThaRoadWarriorThaRoadWarrior Posts: 4,584 Chairperson of the Boards
    Borstock said:
    PiMacleod said:
    I agree about him being slow on PvE.  Mine isn't champed, though... but 11 covers gave me a good view, I believe.
    Half health thor and apocolypse is one of my fastest pve teams, hulkoye might be a tad faster. 

    My fastest team remains Hulkoye + Thanos (I use the 3* version, so I don't have to use as many healthpacks). But I play SCL9. Probably not as viable in SCL10.
    That version of Thanos also benefits from Wakanda Forever, so it's probably also faster than using Thano5 who puts Okoye to sleep before it's a factor on Court Death.


  • St_BernadusSt_Bernadus Posts: 303 Mover and Shaker
    I like Okoye-iHulk-Thanos too but with the Peni Parker support and half-Thor I can easily get the yellow for Apoc/BRB/Thor so I find it a little more consistent. Not as fast at its fastest but not as slow at its slowest either.
  • BorstockBorstock Posts: 1,422 Chairperson of the Boards
    I like Okoye-iHulk-Thanos too but with the Peni Parker support and half-Thor I can easily get the yellow for Apoc/BRB/Thor so I find it a little more consistent. Not as fast at its fastest but not as slow at its slowest either.

    I just don't find that team particularly fast with the damage. As long as I have the boosted 5* champed, I can out-pace that team with 1/2Thor+5*boosted+America in SCL9. Sometimes I can even beat it with 1/2Thor+Okoye+Prof X.
    Don't get me wrong, it's a really strong team. I've just had better luck with others.
  • VhailorxVhailorx Posts: 5,060 Chairperson of the Boards
    Borstock said:
    I like Okoye-iHulk-Thanos too but with the Peni Parker support and half-Thor I can easily get the yellow for Apoc/BRB/Thor so I find it a little more consistent. Not as fast at its fastest but not as slow at its slowest either.

    I just don't find that team particularly fast with the damage. As long as I have the boosted 5* champed, I can out-pace that team with 1/2Thor+5*boosted+America in SCL9. Sometimes I can even beat it with 1/2Thor+Okoye+Prof X.
    Don't get me wrong, it's a really strong team. I've just had better luck with others.

    This is a good reminder that subjective experience can be heavily roster-influenced.  With only ~15 5* champs, I basically never expect to have a boosted 5*.  when I do, it's a bonus.  But with your roster, borstock, it's probably a much safer assumption, so building your grinding strategy around that expectation makes a lot more sense.
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